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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 09-18-2017, 11:12 PM
angelocris angelocris is offline
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For anyone or everyone that received an incomplete registration email response, did you have a magazine installed or removed from your firearm when taking photos for your submission? Interested to know if this makes any difference when registering.
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  #42  
Old 09-19-2017, 3:00 AM
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Originally Posted by caliguy93 View Post
My guess is it's a computer software that runs serial numbers and cross references the dates and automatically kicks them all back and sends an email. Since everyone seems to be getting them on the same day and same
Time is say that's the case. My roommate submitted hers 2 weeks ago and got it kicked back also so the fact that both you and her got it kicked back the same days tells me it's automated
I agree, but the main issue is righting the date and getting the application processed. If it's as simple as calling in and asking them for the date and they provide it, then at least there is some recourse.

If it's an endless game of when did I aquire and we can't get the information that they say is not matching their records, then we have some huge problems here.

Even if there is a number to call, this is already grounds for a huge class action lawsuit. Those that attempted to register being denied because information that was not required to be kept was asked for but not known? It just adds another layer to that concept if when we call, we are denied the information.

Another layer is that no one can define what "acquired date" means. All the State should have, as far as information, is the date the DROS was started and when it was finished. I don't know if the FFL has to enter any dates of when they took physical hold of a firearm (like a date shipped to, or a date when someone came in to do a FTF, etc.) In any case, why would that matter? I have gotten shipments into my FFL many times and it spent a week or two sitting around before I got a chance to go down and start the DROS. If we have to do all kinds of math here to figure out what they mean by acquired date, things are going to get really rough. For instance, maybe I took possession of the firearm weeks after the DROS was finished, etc. That has also happened to me many times, where I just could not get to the FFL on the exact date the DROS was approved.
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  #43  
Old 09-19-2017, 4:50 AM
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If you think you have problems now....just sayin....
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  #44  
Old 09-19-2017, 9:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post

Another layer is that no one can define what "acquired date" means. All the State should have, as far as information, is the date the DROS was started and when it was finished. I don't know if the FFL has to enter any dates of when they took physical hold of a firearm (like a date shipped to, or a date when someone came in to do a FTF, etc.) In any case, why would that matter? I have gotten shipments into my FFL many times and it spent a week or two sitting around before I got a chance to go down and start the DROS. If we have to do all kinds of math here to figure out what they mean by acquired date, things are going to get really rough. For instance, maybe I took possession of the firearm weeks after the DROS was finished, etc. That has also happened to me many times, where I just could not get to the FFL on the exact date the DROS was approved.
Well the OP said they wanted his purchase date, but I bet the system wants the day the DROS was submitted. In my case, my purchase date predates my DROS date by about a week. IE. I ordered the lower on say a Monday, it arrived at the FFL on a Thursday, and I came in for the paperwork say on a Saturday.
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  #45  
Old 09-19-2017, 9:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
Well the OP said they wanted his purchase date, but I bet the system wants the day the DROS was submitted. In my case, my purchase date predates my DROS date by about a week. IE. I ordered the lower on say a Monday, it arrived at the FFL on a Thursday, and I came in for the paperwork say on a Saturday.
So I purchased a rifle by sending an MO to a guy on GB. He got it, took a few days to send out the rifle. FFL then got it a week later. I did not purchase the rifle on the day the FFL got it, it was actually purchased a week before that. So the FFL got the scope on say a Thurs, and I went in to start dros on a Monday.

Explain which one of those dates is the "purchase date" and which one the DOJ wants. There is no such thing as a purchase date, it's a joke. If they want to date the DROS started and already have the info, why are they rejected applications as incomplete?

Nothing makes any sense, as usual.
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  #46  
Old 09-19-2017, 9:24 AM
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I'm surprised that they want date you start rather than end. That makes me think you could have started paperwork on a 2017 AW on 12/30/16.
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  #47  
Old 09-19-2017, 9:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
What he said.

AFAIK...
Magpul PRS = "telescoping" stock because of it's length of pull adjustment capabilities.
To be safe, if you're are going featureless, I'd pin the PRS length of pull adjustment.
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  #48  
Old 09-19-2017, 9:40 AM
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I'm surprised that they want date you start rather than end. That makes me think you could have started paperwork on a 2017 AW on 12/30/16.
I believe the date DOJ has in their system is the date you start your DROS. The entire registration form is full of traps. Entering a DROS date less then 10 days prior to 12/31/16 is one of them. Both you and the FFL will be in hot water.
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  #49  
Old 09-19-2017, 10:10 AM
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I believe CADOJ is looking for the date the DROS was submitted. That is the only date they should be able to confirm, aside from the pick-up date. It would make most sense that they will consider that the acquisition date; even if the purchase was made on-line a week prior. Just my $.02
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  #50  
Old 09-19-2017, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
To be safe, if you're are going featureless, I'd pin the PRS length of pull adjustment.
Doesn't telescope on the buffer tube.
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  #51  
Old 09-19-2017, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
I believe the date DOJ has in their system is the date you start your DROS. The entire registration form is full of traps. Entering a DROS date less then 10 days prior to 12/31/16 is one of them. Both you and the FFL will be in hot water.
Right, but if I enter pickup date of 12/28/16 (thinking that's what they want), do bad things happen?
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  #52  
Old 09-19-2017, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by onelonehorseman View Post
I believe CADOJ is looking for the date the DROS was submitted. That is the only date they should be able to see aside from the pick-up date. It would make most sense that they will consider that the acquisition date; even if the purchase was made on-line a week prior. Just my $.02
I'm confident they're looking for the DROS date but in my mind I didn't possess it until I picked it up. Imagine if someone stole the gun while it was on a 10-day wait and committed a crime. It was in such a short period that the gun was found before the theft was reported. LEOs run the SN and find it was DROS'd to you and knock on or down your door. You never took possession but if they're records don't reflect that then it creates a problem. It may not be an issue if the system shows it was never picked up but I don't know what an AFS inquiry returns.
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  #53  
Old 09-19-2017, 10:14 AM
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Right, but if I enter pickup date of 12/28/16 (thinking that's what they want), do bad things happen?
Probably not since they apparently will know that's the pick-up date and not the acquired date.
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  #54  
Old 09-19-2017, 10:16 AM
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I'm confident they're looking for the DROS date but in my mind I didn't possess it until I picked it up. Imagine if someone stole the gun while it was on a 10-day wait and committed a crime. It was in such a short period that the gun was found before the theft was reported. LEOs run the SN and find it was DROS'd to you and knock on or down your door. You never took possession but if they're records don't reflect that then it creates a problem. It may not be an issue if the system shows it was never picked up but I don't know what an AFS inquiry returns.
If there is no pick-up date/time entered by the FFL (and no signature from you), the gun was never released to you, so there should be no liability.
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  #55  
Old 09-19-2017, 11:09 AM
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The law works on definitions.

If it "telescopes" 1 foot, one inch or 1 mm, it still telescopes.

People need to understand this is how the system works.

They need to understand that if an officer or a DA or a DOJ employee or a legislator thinks they can use it to look better doing their job or in fullfillment of a personal or partisan agenda, they will. Regardless of what the constitution or the law actually say. They won't personally suffer any consequences if they are wrong.
True, however, according to Magpul, the PRS is a fixed stock with an adjustable butt-pad. The stock does not 'telescope'. It is fixed. The pad is adjustable. If we keep promoting the idea that their logical fallacies have merit, they will keep playing semantics and keep assuming they are right. And yes, I do understand that, for a citizen, being right affords little or no protection from being taken for a ride.

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  #56  
Old 09-19-2017, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Doesn't telescope on the buffer tube.

Penal Code Section
30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.


See definition (C)


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  #57  
Old 09-19-2017, 11:55 AM
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Dup posting
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  #58  
Old 09-19-2017, 12:02 PM
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True, however, according to Magpul, the PRS is a fixed stock with an adjustable butt-pad. The stock does not 'telescope'. It is fixed. The pad is adjustable. If we keep promoting the idea that their logical fallacies have merit, they will keep playing semantics and keep assuming they are right. And yes, I do understand that, for a citizen, being right affords little or no protection from being taken for a ride.


A very expensive ride.


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Old 09-19-2017, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
A very expensive ride.


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True dat!

What we do and what we say can differ. While pinning our PRS to be belt and suspenders safe, we can also regularly, publicly state a logical definition of the PRS until it is common knowledge that an adjustable buttpad is not a telescoping stock. And never, ever acknowledge that they have the right, or carte blanche, to bust us with twisted logic. When a law is not clear, it is invalid. Let's remind the lawmakers and peacekeepers that we are not here to be abused.

We have all heard, ad nauseum, about the need for common sense laws. OK, let's turn that around, and demand some common sense instead of a bunch of byzantine bullhockey.
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  #60  
Old 09-19-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
Penal Code Section
30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.


See definition (C)


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oo) “Stock, telescoping” means a stock which is shortened or lengthened by allowing one section to telescope into another portion. On AR-15 style firearms, the buffer tube or receiver extension acts as the fixed part of the stock on which the telescoping butt stock slides or telescopes.

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  #61  
Old 09-19-2017, 1:27 PM
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oo) “Stock, telescoping” means a stock which is shortened or lengthened by allowing one section to telescope into another portion. On AR-15 style firearms, the buffer tube or receiver extension acts as the fixed part of the stock on which the telescoping butt stock slides or telescopes.



CAReg 5471


As usual the legislation and DOJ regs don't accurately reflect each other. Confusion and risks abound possibly turning otherwise law abiding citizens into felons.


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Old 09-19-2017, 2:07 PM
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As usual the legislation and DOJ regs don't accurately reflect each other. Confusion and risks abound possibly turning otherwise law abiding citizens into felons.


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Here's why, SB880, was signed by the governor on 7/1/2016, they thought HRC would win and push through a national version of SB23, think Harris, but Trump won, and they had all of a month and a half to try and patch things up.
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Old 09-19-2017, 3:00 PM
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Here's why, SB880, was signed by the governor on 7/1/2016, they thought HRC would win and push through a national version of SB23, think Harris, but Trump won, and they had all of a month and a half to try and patch things up.
Even if HRC had won no gun control was going to get through the House. The CA DOJ is led around by a bunch of LCAGV lawyers that don't give a rats behind about how the law is written and think (rightly so) that they can get their way in the courts.
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Old 09-19-2017, 4:48 PM
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I feel the making of a massive cluster fluck brewing....
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This x 1000
that's what they want. it's not by accident either
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Old 09-19-2017, 4:49 PM
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Even if HRC had won no gun control was going to get through the House. The CA DOJ is led around by a bunch of LCAGV lawyers that don't give a rats behind about how the law is written and think (rightly so) that they can get their way in the courts.
the 9th will surely keep that winning streak for them going.
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Old 09-19-2017, 4:52 PM
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the 9th will surely keep that winning streak for them going.
Until lawyers admit that Chief Judge Sidney Thomas has unilateral control and will maintain consistent (and unlawful) hostility to the 2A, we'll never see any progress.

There needs to be some sort of insider revolt to counteract LCAGV or all of the 9th is lost.
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Old 09-19-2017, 5:49 PM
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Until lawyers admit that Chief Judge Sidney Thomas has unilateral control and will maintain consistent (and unlawful) hostility to the 2A, we'll never see any progress.

There needs to be some sort of insider revolt to counteract LCAGV or all of the 9th is lost.
Maybe Benitez can bring him out back and set him straight.
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Old 09-19-2017, 6:01 PM
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Has anyone had their application kicked back for a wrong date on a firearm purchased before 2014?

Or is everyone with wrong date kickbacks from 2014 or newer?
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Old 09-19-2017, 6:11 PM
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If the important date was the date the DROS was submitted, then someone could have submitted the DROS on 31-Dec-2016, but that is not the case. Also, even if the DROS was submitted early, the firearm still had to be picked up before 01-Jan-2017. So that should tell you something.
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Old 09-19-2017, 6:15 PM
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So, if they have the correct dates, why can't they substitute them?
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Old 09-19-2017, 6:48 PM
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So, if they have the correct dates, why can't they substitute them?
They can, but they won't, it is the CA DOJ and they would prefer that you not be able to register anything.
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Old 09-19-2017, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
If the important date was the date the DROS was submitted, then someone could have submitted the DROS on 31-Dec-2016, but that is not the case. Also, even if the DROS was submitted early, the firearm still had to be picked up before 01-Jan-2017. So that should tell you something.
It tells me that they don't have their head and their backsides wired together.
Personally, I don't think they know what their asking for...they just threw this list of requirements together with no regard to outcomes unless it was just to make things as hard as possible for any who choose to go the registration path.
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Old 09-19-2017, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
It tells me that they don't have their head and their backsides wired together.
Personally, I don't think they know what their asking for...they just threw this list of requirements together with no regard to outcomes unless it was just to make things as hard as possible for any who choose to go the registration path.
They know exactly what they are doing. All of this idiocy is designed specifically to make it as hard as possible and dissuade as many as possible from registering. Why? Because the last thing they want is more AW in CA, and the registration is nothing more than a thing they HAVE TO DO in order to make a ban legal.

Nothing should surprise you when you look at it through this simple lens. Always do what your enemy does not want you to do, it's the first lesson of war. The Anti's know the registry is a safe haven and much more difficult to attack, and they know their crap regulations will eventually be torn to shreds in court. So what else is there left for them to do but make it impossible to register?
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 09-19-2017, 9:33 PM
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I like to play a little game called "what is the worst possible reason someone would do something?"


9/10 times it will give you your answer
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:47 PM
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For what it's worth I put "I do not know the exact date of purchase, though it was in 2016 prior to the bullet button assault weapon law, for obvious reasons. I'm sure it's in AFS and you can confirm the date."

I've received nothing either via e-mail or snail-mail.
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
They know exactly what they are doing. All of this idiocy is designed specifically to make it as hard as possible and dissuade as many as possible from registering. Why? Because the last thing they want is more AW in CA, and the registration is nothing more than a thing they HAVE TO DO in order to make a ban legal.



Nothing should surprise you when you look at it through this simple lens. Always do what your enemy does not want you to do, it's the first lesson of war. The Anti's know the registry is a safe haven and much more difficult to attack, and they know their crap regulations will eventually be torn to shreds in court. So what else is there left for them to do but make it impossible to register?


True. Do not blame those DOJ actions on ineptitude, which can clearly be attributed conspiracy.


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Old 09-20-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 9M62 View Post
For what it's worth I put "I do not know the exact date of purchase, though it was in 2016 prior to the bullet button assault weapon law, for obvious reasons. I'm sure it's in AFS and you can confirm the date."

I've received nothing either via e-mail or snail-mail.
What date did you submit your application?

I am very curious how they will respond.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:23 AM
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Kalifornia makes money, every time you resubmit your registration, correct ?
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:32 AM
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Kalifornia makes money, every time you resubmit your registration, correct ?
There is no money angle in the game. They budgeted 2.7 million to cover 27 hirings and equipment costs. At $15 a pop they will be extremely lucky to even recompense our tax dollars put into the 2 year plan to cover the staff and equipment. They need nearly 200,000 registrations (not counting multiples, that's 200k registrations that can be for multiple weapons) to cover their budget. Good luck!
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 09-20-2017, 11:53 AM
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Kalifornia makes money, every time you resubmit your registration, correct ?
I believe they let you update info on one without having to pay again
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