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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 02-09-2017, 6:27 PM
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Big crowd again! They needed to find more chairs.
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  #162  
Old 02-09-2017, 8:26 PM
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Big crowd again! They needed to find more chairs.

Again most oppose the proposal, except two Indian idiots.


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  #163  
Old 02-09-2017, 8:51 PM
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Again most oppose the proposal, except two Indian idiots.


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Indians? Like from India or Native Americans? Just curious as to what they logic is.
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  #164  
Old 02-09-2017, 9:13 PM
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Indians? Like from India or Native Americans? Just curious as to what they logic is.


From India.


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  #165  
Old 02-09-2017, 9:15 PM
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Indians? Like from India or Native Americans? Just curious as to what they logic is.


And the usually left type hoplophobia because they know nothing about firearms.


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  #166  
Old 02-09-2017, 9:24 PM
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Indians? Like from India or Native Americans? Just curious as to what they logic is.
Two former residents of India made emotional comments about child safety, and were clearly not aware of existing state law on the matter. They apparently heard about this meeting on nextdoor. One is in UCSF medicine and went on a bit about legal limits on research funding.

One East Asian-American, who apparently has a redneck mother-in-law with guns all over the house, felt duplication of laws would be OK because they'd serve as a reminder to her not to have a loaded rifle under the bed while his kids were visiting. Wait, what?

Everyone else was opposed to the ordinance. So many I lost count.
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  #167  
Old 02-09-2017, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LeftHand-Fu View Post
Two former residents of India made emotional comments about child safety, and were clearly not aware of existing state law on the matter. They apparently heard about this meeting on nextdoor. One is in UCSF medicine and went on a bit about legal limits on research funding.

One East Asian-American, who apparently has a redneck mother-in-law with guns all over the house, felt duplication of laws would be OK because they'd serve as a reminder to her not to have a loaded rifle under the bed while his kids were visiting. Wait, what?

Everyone else was opposed to the ordinance. So many I lost count.
Weird, most immigrants I encounter here are pro gun, especially Filipinos and Chinese. The arguments seem thin and lame, usual stuff about children.

I expected some more refined anti-gun types, maybe a local "business owner" or someone with some prepared anti-gun rhetoric, but it looks like these people don't exist.
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  #168  
Old 02-09-2017, 9:44 PM
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Two former residents of India made emotional comments about child safety, and were clearly not aware of existing state law on the matter. They apparently heard about this meeting on nextdoor. One is in UCSF medicine and went on a bit about legal limits on research funding.
I believe they were husband and wife. As they left together.
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  #169  
Old 02-09-2017, 9:52 PM
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Weird, most immigrants I encounter here are pro gun, especially Filipinos and Chinese. The arguments seem thin and lame, usual stuff about children.

I expected some more refined anti-gun types, maybe a local "business owner" or someone with some prepared anti-gun rhetoric, but it looks like these people don't exist.
Seems like a good portion of the audience consisted of the local Chinese shooting community, there in opposition to the ordinance. And I agree that Indian couple was rather uninformed to say the least.
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  #170  
Old 02-09-2017, 10:03 PM
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The owners of two local gun stores were there, with staff. Both gave on-target comments. The owner of Kerleys was also helpful in chiming in to educate the commissioners when they began their own discussions. I'd like to give a special shout-out to the owner of U.S. Firearms, who made the trip here to tell the commission what similar laws in Sunnyvale have done to his business and what little effect they've had on actual crime or safety. I think he said since the law was passed there the store has gone from 9 employees to 1 plus the owner, after losing $30,000 in each of the first couple of months alone. This while business has been booming at stores in nearby towns.
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  #171  
Old 02-09-2017, 10:19 PM
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If that Indian guy is what passes for a UCSF professor, I can't imagine what kind of garbage that school is churning out now.

All those appeals to authority and emotion, soapboxing on murdered children. **** that douchebag.
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  #172  
Old 02-09-2017, 10:26 PM
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Results:

Two motions, two tie votes, no action taken. Only four of five commissioners were in attendance again. They need to receive advice from the city on how to proceed.

First vote — Jerry Tallinger attempted to delete sections he agreed duplicated too much of state law, while clarifying the rest (including the existing "Permit required" section from 1962). Only Neha Sahai voted in favor. The others opposed.

Second vote — Andy Huang motioned to drop this whole thing and make no changes to the existing ordinance. Only Robert McCoy voted in favor. The others opposed.

At that point they closed the issue and moved on. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

For the record, here are Mr. Tallinger's proposed changes. Note that in 10.76.030 he wanted the storage requirement to simply require guns be locked up when you leave the house, or at least that's what he said at one point. If so, he clearly hadn't achieved the right wording yet but city staff and legal would have tried to wordsmith it from there. But as I said, this motion did not pass.



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  #173  
Old 02-09-2017, 10:39 PM
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I can't believe this insanity.
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  #174  
Old 02-09-2017, 11:23 PM
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I can't believe this insanity.
Believe it, man. And it's just the tip of the iceberg. See this post by MCubeiro on local ordinances: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...
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  #175  
Old 02-10-2017, 10:46 AM
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Glad there was a lot of opposition. There was some to a Mike Honda event last year in Sunnyvale, but the Q&A wasn't long enough, so most people didn't even get to ask their questions. Too many 'Everytown' and 'Moms Demand Action' people were there.

I'm glad to hear Eric (US Firearms) was there (he was at the MH one last year too, which is where I met him). I've talked to him since about the damage it's done to his business in Sunnyvale, and admitted I was one of those that bailed on buyin' ammo locally due to Measure C (the infamous Sunnyvale laws people keep wanting to emulate). We lost that vote 67/33 or somethin' back in late 2013. Wish we had the outpouring of opposition you guys have in Cupertino. US Firearms also got hit late last year after the election by anti-Trump graffiti people. It's hard doin' business around here.

Unfortunately, Sunnyvale gets used often as a great example to many other cities, including San Jose's proposals last year, especially around storage.

Apologies. I did not see this in time, and though I'm a CRPA and NRA member, I got zero alerts. I got some email from them last week for other things, but not about this. I'm not sure why. I checked my spam folder as well - nothin'. I reckon I need to 'refresh' the Calguns 2A section more often. Again, sorry I wasn't there. I'm not far away, and likely could have made it. If there are other efforts in the local area, feel free to private-message me if I'm not replying in a posting.
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  #176  
Old 02-10-2017, 3:08 PM
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Apologies. I did not see this in time, and though I'm a CRPA and NRA member, I got zero alerts. I got some email from them last week for other things, but not about this. I'm not sure why. I checked my spam folder as well - nothin'. I reckon I need to 'refresh' the Calguns 2A section more often. Again, sorry I wasn't there. I'm not far away, and likely could have made it. If there are other efforts in the local area, feel free to private-message me if I'm not replying in a posting.
I did not see any NRA-ILA alerts regarding this until literally the day of the hearing. They really need to work a bit better at regional alerts, be it via the home organization or via the local Member Councils, imho.
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  #177  
Old 02-13-2017, 11:03 PM
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I missed it, was expecting something in March, though did make our presence known at the first meeting.

Have to be more vigilant.
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  #178  
Old 02-22-2017, 11:44 AM
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For those who are watching or involved in this, CRPA just posted a follow up alert which can be viewed here- http://crpa.org/proposed-anti-gun-or...-city-council/

Despite no action being taken by the Commission as a result of the tie votes, the City Clerk has stated that the next step for this ordinance is to go before the City Council, but at this time it is unknown when that will happen.
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  #179  
Old 02-24-2017, 4:16 PM
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Default Sunday 2/26 8:00 AM: Special City Council Meeting

The Cupertino City Council will hold a "Goal Setting" meeting this Sunday, 2/26, at 8:00 AM at the Aloft Hotel, 10165 North De Anza Boulevard, Cupertino. This will be a non-televised special meeting. https://cupertino.legistar.com/MeetingDetail... Many thanks to Harry, the owner of Kerley's, for letting us know about this. It's an early riser but please come; we cannot rely on anyone else to show up for us.

At the first such meeting last year, the council decided to support state firearms initiatives. That quickly morphed into a full-fledged local firearms ordinance. This is their first meeting this year since the Public Safety Commission deadlocked on that ordinance, and city staff have indicated that the council definitely intends to revive the proposal in some form at their own meetings. We need to attend this goal-setting meeting and be heard.

At the Public Safety Commission, arguments that impressed the commissioners were mostly on local legal issues and economic impacts. Some of them also showed some interest in self-defense practicalities. But impassioned comments about 2A rights seemed to turn most of them off, and they were clearly unaffected by speakers and email from outside of Cupertino (except when the owner of US Firearms spoke about his business and the Sunnyvale ordinance). This is situation normal, and I suspect the council members will be even more strongly inclined towards the same listening.

(P.S. The minutes of the January safety commission meeting have been posted, but this month's minutes have not. I am not linking to them here because they are very limited summaries, and you'll get much better information by reading back through this thread.)
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  #180  
Old 02-25-2017, 2:04 AM
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Default City of Cupertino propose new gun control laws

Oh no. Again. These people...
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  #181  
Old 02-25-2017, 2:46 AM
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Instead of having fifty or sixty people tell the counsel what they already know; That the people oppose those ridiculous laws.... how about you get 1,000 Cupertino residents to walk in and tell them that they don't care what they pass, they won't comply. Then remind them what it costs to enforce laws on a grand scale, and remind them what the state does in terms of jail terms right now as well as punishment (none) and more or less make it well known that they can pass all the feel good legislation they want... But that law abiding citizens will not be treated as second class citizens. Whether or not those people actually intend on complying is irrelevant, the point is they would be telling the city counsel that they wont, and as such they'll have no choice but to take the fiscal responsibility into account.

Seemed to work in Connecticut when they threatened 400,000 people with prosecution for not registering.
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  #182  
Old 02-25-2017, 8:16 AM
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I'm not sure what the council knows, 9M62, but they haven't heard directly from us before and much of what we said at the public safety commission needs to be repeated. And as I said above, only certain lines of argument are likely to get through to them.

(All: the city council is meeting Sunday morning. See my post #179 above.)
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  #183  
Old 02-25-2017, 9:23 AM
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I wonder if we'll see the lady who said she was "worried about guns exploding in children's backpacks" again. I actually almost felt sorry for her. She had no idea about what the actual laws already are, or what was in the ordinance we were there to discuss.

(Again, the city council is meeting Sunday morning. See my post #179 above.)
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  #184  
Old 02-25-2017, 6:41 PM
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This morning I PMed several people who have previously posted about being sorry to have missed the last meeting. Hope to see you all there tomorrow morning at 8 AM.
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  #185  
Old 02-26-2017, 8:11 AM
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And here we go...

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  #186  
Old 02-26-2017, 9:14 AM
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Originally Posted by schrader View Post
Glad there was a lot of opposition. There was some to a Mike Honda event last year in Sunnyvale, but the Q&A wasn't long enough, so most people didn't even get to ask their questions. Too many 'Everytown' and 'Moms Demand Action' people were there.

I'm glad to hear Eric (US Firearms) was there (he was at the MH one last year too, which is where I met him). I've talked to him since about the damage it's done to his business in Sunnyvale, and admitted I was one of those that bailed on buyin' ammo locally due to Measure C (the infamous Sunnyvale laws people keep wanting to emulate). We lost that vote 67/33 or somethin' back in late 2013. Wish we had the outpouring of opposition you guys have in Cupertino. US Firearms also got hit late last year after the election by anti-Trump graffiti people. It's hard doin' business around here.

Unfortunately, Sunnyvale gets used often as a great example to many other cities, including San Jose's proposals last year, especially around storage.

Apologies. I did not see this in time, and though I'm a CRPA and NRA member, I got zero alerts. I got some email from them last week for other things, but not about this. I'm not sure why. I checked my spam folder as well - nothin'. I reckon I need to 'refresh' the Calguns 2A section more often. Again, sorry I wasn't there. I'm not far away, and likely could have made it. If there are other efforts in the local area, feel free to private-message me if I'm not replying in a posting.
Drive by US Firearms because it is near my kids school. Never see any customers inside. Completly forgot about measure C
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  #187  
Old 02-26-2017, 9:17 AM
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Seems to be a different meeting?


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  #188  
Old 02-26-2017, 10:09 AM
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Seems to be a different meeting?


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The good news is that firearms is not on their major goals list. The bad news is this topic may still turn up in some form on a future "Consent Calendar" that gets quickly approved without further discussion. Still here listening... Two of us spoke at this meeting, but I think we need to individually meet with them at their offices on this as well.

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  #189  
Old 02-26-2017, 12:54 PM
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Some of us had productive conversations with council members during the breaks and after the meeting, and will eventually meet with them at their offices as well. If you're a Cupertino resident, please also ask for meetings.

It's pretty clear to me that at least one of them realizes this has gone too far, but another is still hoping city staff will come back with something they can move forward on, and others may support that. It ain't over yet.
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Old 02-26-2017, 2:45 PM
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Which council person won't give up? This is the one we should all concentrate on.
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  #191  
Old 02-26-2017, 7:53 PM
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Whatever happened to preemption law in California? Local laws cannot exceed state laws.
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:14 PM
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Which council person won't give up? This is the one we should all concentrate on.
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Whatever happened to preemption law in California? Local laws cannot exceed state laws.
The preemption argument almost won at the Public Safety Commission. They deadlocked with two commissioners wanting to recommend gutting the pure duplications out of the proposed ordinance and toning down the rest, and the other two wanting to drop the whole thing like a hot potato (possibly for opposite reasons).

The City Council members that offered reactions or questions today were clearly taking the preemption aspect seriously, and in fact I believe that only a practical focus on this, other likely legal challenges, and the resulting fiscal impact, will get their full attention. Maybe also the economic impact on Kerley's but I wouldn't count on it. The large turnout at the PSC meetings impressed at least one of them, but for very local reasons, and this won't do much for the rest. And it's very clear the 2A arguments that work best here on CalGuns will have no effect on them at all, though it may be worth touching on how these laws can have unintended effects...because in many ways they really have no idea what they're proposing.

When approaching any of the Council members, we'll need to speak specifically to the details of whatever new recommendation or draft that city staff produce. That document has not yet been delivered. As to which ears to target and why, for the moment I think we should take that discussion to PMs and emails, but in the end they all need to be convinced to varying degrees.
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Old 03-05-2017, 10:05 AM
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The Cupertino City Council meets again Tuesday, March 7th. According to the Agenda (PDF), at 5:45 PM they will hold a special Study Session on the 2017 City Work Program (PDF). Continuing to pursue a firearms ordinance may be be discussed and given a quick thumbs-up or -down during that hour. Then they will start their Regular Meeting at 6:45 PM, with Oral Communications (public comments, 3 minutes per person) after various ceremonies and proclamations.

On page 3 of the City Work Program PDF I linked to above, at the end of the first section (Administration) "Gun Safety" is listed as "On Hold". They may decide to instruct city staff to proceed with work on a new draft of the firearms ordinance at that time. This will go by fast, and we won't be able to speak beforehand. But they heard from us at the last meeting as well as in some one-on-one conversations, and at this point either agree or not. I only plan to monitor this and — unless I get unusually riled up — I won't speak during the later session as at that point they will have already decided whether to restart the process, and IMHO it will be more useful to know what's in any new draft first.

For those who cannot get there in person, these meetings are usually live streamed and then archived on the city website, and in most of Cupertino are also broadcast on Comcast Cable Channel 26 and AT&T U-Verse Channel 99.
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Last edited by LeftHand-Fu; 03-05-2017 at 1:50 PM.. Reason: The 7th is Tuesday, not Thursday, sorry.
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Old 03-05-2017, 1:51 PM
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(I just edited the previous post: the 7th is Tuesday, not Thursday. Sorry.)
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Old 03-07-2017, 9:32 PM
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OK! I have mostly good news from tonight's City Council Study Session. They've dropped the proposed ordinance, but they do want to do something...so they decided to pick on dealers. In this town that mostly means Kerleys. Not much, just a little, and maybe we can knock this one down too.

Our arguments on preemption of state law convinced them, but now they're making they same mistake again: they've directed city staff to draft something new requiring "commercial sellers" to lock up their inventory properly. The Council members and the city manager are unaware of existing state law regarding dealer storage. Tonight they specifically discussed avoiding anything that duplicates or conflicts with state law, but with this new idea the same preemption issues will come up again. I think there's a good chance they will drop this one too.

Hopefully they can be convinced to do so before they even start writing it. But if a draft makes it to the Public Safety Commission again, I'm sure many of us will turn out once again to oppose making it that much harder for Kerley's to remain in business here in Cupertino.
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Old 03-07-2017, 9:35 PM
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Excellent work, without the attention this could have meant more range closures in the Bay Area. If there was some way to contribute for gas and time, maybe a patreon account?
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:23 PM
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Excellent work, without the attention this could have meant more range closures in the Bay Area. If there was some way to contribute for gas and time, maybe a patreon account?
Thanks, I appreciate the thought, but I just had to make the time for this and used no gasoline...just a lot of hot air once I got there. Let's also thank Harry of Kerleys, who let me know about the Council's Sunday goal-setting session where I did the final convincing. Now Harry's in trouble, so let's make sure to support him if and when he needs it.
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:09 PM
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Message to criminals and thugs: Cupertino will soon be a haven for you to victimize their residents without much risk of armed defense.
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Old 03-08-2017, 1:04 PM
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Message to criminals and thugs: Cupertino will soon be a haven for you to victimize their residents without much risk of armed defense.
I think you have us confused with Sunnyvale. Here's the latest on Cupertino: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=195
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Old 03-08-2017, 1:10 PM
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Dude **** that if i lived therr and they pulled this **** i would walk into city hall and start throwing haymakers and uppercuts at everyone in there
And then lose your firearms privileges forever. They would like that!
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