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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 01-10-2017, 7:52 AM
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Nevermind, I just went online and dug a little. I was a member for years just didn't have the cash to renew this year.
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  #42  
Old 01-10-2017, 8:01 AM
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I am actually in San Jose for business in the morning. I might be able to push my stay. I'm curious though, how reponsive or annoyed they might be by out-of-towners. In a city issue could it send the wrong message and make them more defensive.
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  #43  
Old 01-10-2017, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bool1tholz View Post
Looks like this is specifically crafted to run the Sunnyvale Rod and Gun Club out of business. They're in Cupertino city limit I think.



The law enforcement is contracted out to the Santa Clara County Sheriff, so you have to get Laurie Smith issue a permit? Ha ha good luck. So no more Chabot Shooting Range now the Sunnyvale Rod and Gun Club too?
So you need permit to shoot a bb gun or airsoft? lol.. gotta love the govt nanny state..
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  #44  
Old 01-10-2017, 8:48 AM
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The entire bay area is now a gun free zone. Looks like you will need to drive a lot further than I do here.
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  #45  
Old 01-10-2017, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tninety View Post
If Proposition H got struck down in San Francisco then how do they expect this to survive?
Partly because there's an exemption for self defense. And partly because the 9th has shown that they don't fear a SCOTUS smackdown so they'll uphold anything that fits their agenda and kill any part of the constitution that they don't agree with. We live in a post-constitutional society.
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  #46  
Old 01-10-2017, 8:50 AM
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You will see this pattern increase here. Cities, all jacked up with power from defeating the Federal government over immigration and pot laws now feel it's within their power to over rule the Federal Constitution.

With no controlling federal legal authority here to stop them, it will continue.
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  #47  
Old 01-10-2017, 9:04 AM
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This is smart! The state will be a safer place for sure with less places to shoot those evil assualty killing machines.....I hope they apply the same to driving cars next to help with pollution and global warming, we cant ban cars so lets close down all roads to force people to start taking the trains and public transportation! Yea that will work, or maybe invoke a taxation on drivers per mile they travel! Oh wait, wasn't that introduced once........Liberal Logic 101
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  #48  
Old 01-10-2017, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liberallyloaded View Post
... gasp... I am shocked and upset by this seemingly random chain of anti-2a events/action at the local level.
IT'S NOT RANDOM.
BIG COMPANY MOVES IN AND ENSLAVES THE LOCALS!
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  #49  
Old 01-10-2017, 9:12 AM
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Look guys,
The only way to even speak up about this is to cite their gun violence rate, which is none.
Their entire premises (Is you read both the presentation and the actual verbiage) is about the continued gun violence in their city.
That is the only talking point they will entertain.
Without the actual Cupertino crime stats, you might as well stay home.
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  #50  
Old 01-10-2017, 9:27 AM
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Here is a non official report that states ZERO murder of any type.
http://www.areavibes.com/cupertino-ca/crime/
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  #51  
Old 01-10-2017, 9:28 AM
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Is there any chance to get Michel and associates involved in this?
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  #52  
Old 01-10-2017, 9:40 AM
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This is crazy, but comes to no surprise in Apples backyard.

I'll do my best to be there!


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  #53  
Old 01-10-2017, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pistol3 View Post
Most of the proposals look like normal Bloomberg stuff, but the permit for discharge stuff is puzzling. It looks like it would already be illegal to discharge a normal gun in most, if not all, of the city. Maybe they want to go after people who shoot squirrels in their back yard with airguns? Or make it impossible to open a gun range there? Nutty.

They want to close the Sunnyvale club
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  #54  
Old 01-10-2017, 9:57 AM
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Sunnyvale rod and gun is not in the city limits so its not impacted
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  #55  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
Sunnyvale rod and gun is not in the city limits so its not impacted
I bet the people write this ordinance didn't know this
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  #56  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:11 AM
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Who are they?
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  #57  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:29 AM
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sunnyvale rod and gun club is NOT in cupertino city limits.

look on the map for the zip code "95014" and you will see sunnyvale rod and gun just below it.
http://www.zipmap.net/California/San.../Cupertino.htm
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  #58  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:31 AM
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Here is another report. Gun violence is non existent!
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime...alifornia.html
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  #59  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkshire View Post
sunnyvale rod and gun club is NOT in cupertino city limits.

look on the map for the zip code "95014" and you will see sunnyvale rod and gun just below it.
http://www.zipmap.net/California/San.../Cupertino.htm
It will be treated as if it is
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  #60  
Old 01-10-2017, 10:51 AM
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It appears to be within the "City's Sphere of Influence."

http://santaclaralafco.org/file/Serv..._Cupertino.pdf
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  #61  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:04 AM
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It should be treated as Santa Clara County Land. I grew up on Lundy Lane in Los Altos. It is on unincorporated land and Santa Clara County law applies.
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  #62  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bool1tholz View Post
Looks like this is specifically crafted to run the Sunnyvale Rod and Gun Club out of business. They're in Cupertino city limit I think.
It falls just outside of city limits, unless they want to try and do the whole "we control unincorporated areas as well" bs that many cities love doing.
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  #63  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:39 AM
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Sphere of influence. Another way to say its not legally ours but no one else claimed it so we are going to extort entities there anyway.
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  #64  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro View Post
Here is a non official report that states ZERO murder of any type.
http://www.areavibes.com/cupertino-ca/crime/
This is excellent. This nonsense is a hammer looking for a nail. It's proof that they aren't doing this for "public safety". They are doing this because they're outright anti-gun.
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  #65  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerodameaon View Post
It falls just outside of city limits, unless they want to try and do the whole "we control unincorporated areas as well" bs that many cities love doing.
So it looks like this is exactly what they are doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanse Davion View Post
It appears to be within the "City's Sphere of Influence."

http://santaclaralafco.org/file/Serv..._Cupertino.pdf
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  #66  
Old 01-10-2017, 11:58 AM
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Actually, the range sits just outside of the map designated Figure 11.
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  #67  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro View Post
Actually, the range sits just outside of the map designated Figure 11.
Wait, if Im not mistaken, it's already unlawful to discharge a firearm within city limits unless it's for self defense. If Sunnyvale Rod and Gun isn't in Cupertino, I dont know of any gun ranges in Cupertino.
If the above are true, then what exactly does this new proposal change (regarding permit to discharge)?
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  #68  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:15 PM
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Deleted.

Last edited by Hologon; 01-10-2017 at 2:43 PM..
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  #69  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:37 PM
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Makes perfect sense, close all the public ranges, so no one will want to buy guns because there is no where to use them at and it's another big push for the Libs to say that no one can practices so they will not be safe handling firearms. The local parks director of the Bay Area is a liberal and she has closed down several ranges in this area. Coyote Point is also not open to the public any longer. The old saying goes, "Throw a frog into hot water and he'll jump out, but if you slow turn up the heat he'll not notice and die.
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  #70  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:49 PM
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man.... folks in LA and San Diego, enjoy your ranges! I took em for granted when we lived near there... Miss em now
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  #71  
Old 01-10-2017, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munny$hot View Post
The old saying goes, "Throw a frog into hot water and he'll jump out, but if you slow turn up the heat he'll not notice and die.
Lots of old saying in this world, and I'm pretty sure the frog would eventually notice the discomfort of the heat, and leave the pot.

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  #72  
Old 01-10-2017, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munny$hot View Post
Coyote Point is also not open to the public any longer.
Are you talking about Coyote Point Range? If so you are misinformed, it is closed for the time being because it getting a ground up renovation.


Quote:
Today, the range is under the direction of the San Mateo County Sheriff's Department. The Range is operated for public use by members of the Coyote Point Rifle and Pistol Club, Inc., who are Range Safety Officers. The range allows only .22 caliber rimfire pistols and any caliber rifles. Black Powder firearms are NOT permitted. It is open to the general public EVENINGS ONLY between the hours of 7:00 PM and 10:00 PM Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. It is closed on all major holidays.
Source: http://www.coyotepointrpc.org/

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  #73  
Old 01-10-2017, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro View Post
Actually, the range sits just outside of the map designated Figure 11.
It does not, the sphere of influence butts up to Stevens Canyon road right by the res. The gun club is within that blue line because it is north of the road.
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  #74  
Old 01-10-2017, 1:29 PM
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Yep, I was looking at the yellow areas.
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  #75  
Old 01-10-2017, 1:32 PM
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How much influence they actually have I am not sure, but when I saw the map the first time I was looking at the yellow and thought they were fine.
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  #76  
Old 01-10-2017, 1:52 PM
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Looking at the current Cupertino code on line, it seems like the shooting permit section is pre-existing. Already.

However, they're trying to add theft reporting which looks redundant to new state law.

And locked home storage, which violates Heller but will stand because the 9th already ruled on San Francisco's similar law.

And making standard cap magazines illegal, which looks redundant to new state law.

And vendor ammo logs, which looks irrelevant with new state law.

So overall, they're just blathering to their base except for the "safe storage law" which they can't really enforce unless they're coming into your house for other reasons.

Generally, a load of crap. But when you go to the meeting, you might focus on the state-redundancy of the measures and the enforcement issues with the home storage section.
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  #77  
Old 01-10-2017, 2:29 PM
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It may be a load of crap but it will get someone reelected or elected to a higher position, maybe in the county.
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  #78  
Old 01-10-2017, 3:13 PM
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Default Fiscal Impact

Note that the Staff Report document (prepared by Jaqui Guzman and reviewed/approved by David Brandt) claims the "Fiscal Impact" as "None", but that appears to be incorrect - for example:

1) Kerleys Hunting & Outfitting (on Stevens Creek Blvd in Cupertino) sells ammo, so the Draft Resolution "10.76.050 Ammunition Sales" ammo log requirement would presumably drive down local ammo sales, which would in turn reduce local sales tax revenues.

2) It seems unclear if the Draft Resolution "10.76.010 Permit Required" to shoot firearms would only apply to the legally incorporated City of Cupertino, or if that poposal would also extend to Cupertino's "Sphere of Influence" - specifically, the proposal should be updated to clarify if the Sunnyvale Rod & Gun Club at Stevens Canyon Rd. would fall under this proposed permit requirement; and if that is the case that the club would be impacted (effectively closing the range to public shooting), then the Fiscal Impact could become exponentially greater (i.e. deeper revenue reductions to the City). By the way, the Sunnyvale Rod & Gun Club is located right next to the noisy/dusty Stevens Creek Quarry; so even if the club were to shut down, that site would still be unsuitable for re-development to try to recover any loss of revenue.

3) The Draft Resolution also states that the Chief of Police and peace officers must setup and maintain new processes and procedure for logging ammo sales and issuing permits to shoot firearms. That labor is not cheap, and calculating the estimated Fiscal Impact would require disclosure of actual LEO salaries, benefits, and overhead.

No bureaucrat likes to come across as fiscally irresponsible (especially when their own annual budget comes up for review), so if you plan to attend on Thursday evening, it might be a good idea to bring up these points, and then respectfully recommend that the Public Safety Commission require that the requestors (Jaqui Guzman and David Brandt) go obtain a thorough financial analysis performed by the City's independent auditors (i.e. expensive CPAs) before any attempt to re-submit this proposal, updated with an accurate Fiscal Impact report (by which time more opposition can be mobilized).

KT
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  #79  
Old 01-10-2017, 3:43 PM
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I'm not a lawyer, but the words "necessary" seem to lend this ordnance to legal challenge.
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  #80  
Old 01-10-2017, 3:52 PM
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This is one of the last things on the agenda. That would put it well into the evening, so don't worry about getting delayed by your commute. Show up and speak your mind. The location is just a few blocks from Kerley's Hunting & Outfitting. (Yes, Kerley's is still there, but that's another discussion.)

Do some research first. Go here and enter "firearms" in the Quick Search box. For example, Cupertino has had a city ordinance against the non-defensive discharge of firearms since 1962.

What they're doing is adding new paragraphs to an existing ordinance. From the Staff Report: The proposed gun safety measures provides for the safe storage of guns in homes, requires a gun owner to report a stolen or lost gun, prohibits the possession of ammunition magazines capable of holding more than ten rounds unless circumstances warrant such possession, and requires record-keeping relating to the sale of ammunition.
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