Should off duty injured OC Sheriff Deputies get Workers Comp?

[Rapid Cool]

Should the 4 injured Orange County Sheriff Deptuies who assisted at the Les Vegas Nevada Route 91 shooting incident receive Workers Compensation from their County of Orange employer?

If the claims are approved, it could put taxpayers on the hook for years of medical expenses, allow officers to retire early on disability and guarantee injured officers paid time off in the short term. If officers begin to claim injuries related to PTSD suffered during the shooting – as two deputies in Orange County did – it also could open the door for scores of additional filings.

What do you think?

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/...or-socal-cops/
http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/23...-to-state-law/

[yzErnie]

This has been a hammered topic in the OT forum. Posting it in this forum will do nothing more than result the same BS going on over there.

/end thread.

[71MUSTY]

DUPE - They were not working, they were out of state and out of jurisdiction. Filing a Workman's Comp Claim for an injury that happened on personal time is called Insurance Fraud.

Should the Marine who was injured giving aid at the same event get workmans comp? What about the California EMT who just happened to be there.


That does not mean they can't apply for disability and join and class action suits.

But NOT WORKMAN'S COMP

OMG RapidCool dude where you at? We all really missed your input on this thread

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1391564

[Philthy]

Not AOE/COE, you'd be toast at a priority conference. Game over.

[Rapid Cool]

Originally Posted by yzernie

This has been a hammered topic in the OT forum. Posting it in this forum will do nothing more than result the same BS going on over there.



/end thread.

I don't follow the OT, so asked here.

[Rapid Cool]

Originally Posted by 71MUSTY

DUPE - They were not working, they were out of state and out of jurisdiction. Filing a Workman's Comp Claim for an injury that happened on personal time is called Insurance Fraud.

Should the Marine who was injured giving aid at the same event get workmans comp? What about the California EMT who just happened to be there.


That does not mean they can't apply for disability and join and class action suits.

But NOT WORKMAN'S COMP

OMG RapidCool dude where you at? We all really missed your input on this thread

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1391564

71musty- How do you know if I agree or don't agree with you?

[71MUSTY]

Originally Posted by Rapid Cool

71musty- How do you know if I agree or don't agree with you?

I don't care if you agree with me or not. Your opinion isn't what matters.

The law is clear.

[Rapid Cool]

Originally Posted by 71MUSTY

I don't care if you agree with me or not. Your opinion isn't what matters.

The law is clear.

But you just assume my answer, that's where you went down the wrong road.

[71MUSTY]

Originally Posted by Rapid Cool

But you just assume my answer, that's where you went down the wrong road.

No I did not. I do not care what your position or answer is.

Law is clear.

That is where you went down the wrong road. In fact I never asked for your opinion, you asked for mine.

Workman's comp covers injuries while working. Period.

Otherwise they and we could also collect workman's comp when they hurt themselves fishing or having sex off duty.

They did not ask your opinion and neither did I.

[Samuelx]

Originally Posted by Rapid Cool

I don't follow the OT, so asked here.

Ditto. IMO, it's a "dupe" if it was already posted in "Calguns LEOs", otherwise NEGATIVE on it being a "dupe"!!!

[71MUSTY]

Originally Posted by Samuelx

Ditto. IMO, it's a "dupe" if it was already posted in "Calguns LEOs", otherwise NEGATIVE on it being a "dupe"!!!

Cool so people should post the same thing over and over in each forum?

[Samuelx]

I personally haven't made up my mind one way or another But, IMO, it Is arguable/debatable that once off duty LEOs took LE/Public Safety/first responder actions in exigent circumstances, for all intents and purposes, they became "on duty"...

[Samuelx]

Originally Posted by 71MUSTY

Cool so people should post the same thing over and over in each forum?

I don't pay any attention to most of the other sections of this website, especially OT so...

[therealnickb]

Originally Posted by Rapid Cool

Should the 4 injured Orange County Sheriff Deptuies who assisted at the Les Vegas Nevada Route 91 shooting incident receive Workers Compensation from their County of Orange employer?



What do you think?

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/...or-socal-cops/
http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/23...-to-state-law/

No.

[Rapid Cool]

I totally agree, they should NOT be granted any comp benefits.

[tvfreakarms]

Originally Posted by 71MUSTY

DUPE - They were not working, they were out of state and out of jurisdiction. Filing a Workman's Comp Claim for an injury that happened on personal time is called Insurance Fraud.

Should the Marine who was injured giving aid at the same event get workmans comp? What about the California EMT who just happened to be there.


That does not mean they can't apply for disability and join and class action suits.

But NOT WORKMAN'S COMP

OMG RapidCool dude where you at? We all really missed your input on this thread

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1391564

I agree with u.


Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

[Rapid Cool]

Originally Posted by Samuelx

Ditto. IMO, it's a "dupe" if it was already posted in "Calguns LEOs", otherwise NEGATIVE on it being a "dupe"!!!

I looked before posting and didnt see it here.

[sethrus]

Originally Posted by 71MUSTY

DUPE - They were not working, they were out of state and out of jurisdiction. Filing a Workman's Comp Claim for an injury that happened on personal time is called Insurance Fraud.

Should the Marine who was injured giving aid at the same event get workmans comp? What about the California EMT who just happened to be there.


That does not mean they can't apply for disability and join and class action suits.

But NOT WORKMAN'S COMP

OMG RapidCool dude where you at? We all really missed your input on this thread

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1391564

+1

Sent from my STH100-1 using Tapatalk

[71MUSTY]

Originally Posted by Samuelx

I personally haven't made up my mind one way or another But, IMO, it Is arguable/debatable that once off duty LEOs took LE/Public Safety/first responder actions in exigent circumstances, for all intents and purposes, they became "on duty"...

You could argue that, but California Workman's Comp law is pretty clear and has been heavily litigated already. And seeing as they were clearly on vacation in another state...


Don't get me wrong, I totally think they should and will be compensated, just not by Workman's Comp.

[Samuelx]

Yeah, it's not like Vegas doesn't have Any Money! haha

[Chewy65]

That they were injured outside of the state is not determinative nor is the fact that they were on vacation and off duty. See cases where officers required to pass physical standards test injure themselves while doing PT off duty and on vacation and out of state. Here compensability may boil down to the officers reasonable expectations of their employment. See Tomlin v. WCAB. Also, were they injured while performing law enforcement functions or merely watching the show. I am not at all up to date on this, but they may be better off if not in the course and scope. I seem to recall something called the fireman's rule that denied liability to a public employee injured in the course and scope of delivering emergency services. You owe nothing on account of your negligence in stating a fire to the fireman injured while fighting the fire. The rule extends to police officers.

[sfpcservice]

There are a lot better cases you could start with if you were really concerned about workers comp fraud.

[71MUSTY]

Originally Posted by Chewy65

That they were injured outside of the state is not determinative nor is the fact that they were on vacation and off duty. See cases where officers required to pass physical standards test injure themselves while doing PT off duty and on vacation and out of state. Here compensability may boil down to the officers reasonable expectations of their employment. See Tomlin v. WCAB. Also, were they injured while performing law enforcement functions or merely watching the show. I am not at all up to date on this, but they may be better off if not in the course and scope. I seem to recall something called the fireman's rule that denied liability to a public employee injured in the course and scope of delivering emergency services. You owe nothing on account of your negligence in stating a fire to the fireman injured while fighting the fire. The rule extends to police officers.

From Tomlin v. WCAB

 “[T]he test of ‘reasonable expectancy of employment’ ․ consists of two elements:  (1) whether the employee subjectively believes his or her participation in an activity is expected by the employer, and (2) whether that belief is objectively reasonable.”   (Ezzy, supra, 146 Cal.App.3d at p. 260, 194 Cal.Rptr. 90.)  

This seems to be the test they would have to pass.

Does their employer expect them to give aid anytime someone is injured? I don't know, maybe they do. Are they required when off duty, for example, to stop every time they see a traffic collision and see if aid is needed? Again I have no idea.

[code_blue]

Originally Posted by 71MUSTY

From Tomlin v. WCAB


This seems to be the test they would have to pass.

Does their employer expect them to give aid anytime someone is injured? I don't know, maybe they do. Are they required when off duty, for example, to stop every time they see a traffic collision and see if aid is needed? Again I have no idea.

A TC, in general, is not an exigent circumstance and even if citizen injury were present it is a completely different dynamic than an active shooter incident like Vegas. What should be considered is if they were injured while fleeing or if they were injured while acting as LE whether it be securing the safety of the public or engaging the threat.

The largest argument appears to be that the officers were out of state. IIRC, Sheriff Lombardo classified off-duty NV Officer Hartfield's death as on-duty because of the LE actions Hartfield took during the incident.

[SG29736]

Were there a lot more who took similar action and out of a larger number of officers only 4 are making a claim? Or are we talking 4 for 4 everyone files a claim?

[sawman]

Don't know if this helps but I worked for a mid size fire department for 30 years and were told we were (encouraged to give aid on our time off ) . Most people helped if there was a obvious need but would not go looking to play super fireman on their day off.
The thing was you could put in for OT if you did the only time I heard of guys putting in for it was if they got hurt then the department required them to be on the books to be covered by comp.
I can remember a few guys get hurt off duty while helping people that required surgery and a long time off. They were covered by comp . Most of the injuries off duty while helping people came from exposure to blood and body fluids and only required test and monitoring .
If departments won't cover their people for injuries don't expect much aid to be given on my day off sorry ma be I'm a xxx