Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-14-2017, 2:56 PM
tlc559 tlc559 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 85
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default WAIT WHAT...CA DOJ SERIAL NUMBER WOES

So I sent out an application for a serial number for an 80% lower to the CA DOJ that I haven't built yet. They responded quoting this:

Can you please confirm that the serial number being requested is for an assault weapons built from an 80% lower receiver or a stripped receiver, pursuant to AB 1135 and SB 880?



DOJ SERIAL NUMBER

Bureau of Firearms – AWR

Division of Law Enforcement



P.O. Box 160367

Sacramento, CA 95816-0367


What the hell do I just say yeah? The receiver is still in it's 80% form.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:02 PM
Robotron2k84 Robotron2k84 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 334
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

You can not legally say yes to their inquiry as building a BB'd gun in 2017 is no longer legal.

I'm going to guess that DOJ is attempting to prioritize the requests for people that already had built BB'd rifles from 80%s and legally possessed them prior to 1-1-2017. This would be so they can apply them and register before the 6-30-2018 AW deadline.

Answering no will likely place you at a point in the queue where you will receive your serial after the AW registration window is closed.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:03 PM
Bullets&Whitewalls Bullets&Whitewalls is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,283
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

I didn't think you could build an assault weapon now? You can only build featureless or fixed mag so the answer would be NO
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:05 PM
tlc559 tlc559 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 85
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I just responded saying this:

"It is an 80% lower that hasn't been milled yet to be considered an actual lower receiver. I was told by a friend to request a serial number PRIOR to doing anything to be California Compliant. I don't have the barrel or anything yet, I just wanted to make sure that I am following the law before doing anything as California gun laws are extremely confusing to the average law abiding citizen. This is what I want to build. I am trying to comply with all California state laws. As to my understanding, it is not an assault weapon until it is actually milled. I will not mill it until I get a serial number from the DOJ. Once milled it will be registered in your system as an assault weapon pursuant to AB 1135 and SB 880.
To make it 100% clear, it is NOT a stripped receiver as that is ILLEGAL. It is an 80% lower that hasn't been built yet."

I guess we'll see how they respond.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:10 PM
Robotron2k84 Robotron2k84 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 334
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Again, you can not build a long gun as a currently defined BB'd AW as of 1-1-2017. You may build it as featureless or fixed mag for SACF, both of which are ineligible for registration.

A lower, stripped or unmilled is not considered an AW until features are added and a SACF upper is installed. For all they know it's using a 22 rimfire upper. You are confusing the registration with needing a serial on a home-built weapon. An 80% receiver needs a DOJ-approved serial number, as of 7-1-2018 (AB-857) regardless of how it's to be built, if I understand the legal changes properly. From 1-1-2017 on, you may only build it as featureless, or fixed mag for SACF.

The application process, as of now, is for legally possessed BB'd AWs as of 12-31-2016.

Last edited by Robotron2k84; 12-14-2017 at 3:49 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:14 PM
tlc559 tlc559 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 85
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Well then that's that. You think the DOJ going to raid my house now? LMAO

Last edited by tlc559; 12-14-2017 at 3:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:31 PM
AlienHobo's Avatar
AlienHobo AlienHobo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 343
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

I thought the DOJ won't be giving out serial numbers for NON-Assault weapons built from 80% lowers until after July 1, 2018.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:32 PM
tlc559 tlc559 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 85
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienHobo View Post
I thought the DOJ won't be giving out serial numbers for NON-Assault weapons built from 80% lowers until after July 1, 2018.
That's what I thought to; therefore, I am requesting one now as it is still 2017.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:37 PM
Robotron2k84 Robotron2k84 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 334
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

The requirement for the DOJ-assigned S/N is effective 7-1-2018 per AB-857.

Last edited by Robotron2k84; 12-14-2017 at 3:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:41 PM
AlienHobo's Avatar
AlienHobo AlienHobo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 343
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc559 View Post
That's what I thought to; therefore, I am requesting one now as it is still 2017.
You don't need to request one. You can just put whatever you want, as long as you do it before July 1 of next year.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-14-2017, 3:44 PM
tlc559 tlc559 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 85
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Understood. Thank you all for your input.

It is UNBELIEVABLE that so many people (myself included) don't know about the laws here. I have heard multiple advice that state different things.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-15-2017, 7:58 AM
Dirk Tungsten's Avatar
Dirk Tungsten Dirk Tungsten is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: the basement
Posts: 920
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
You can not legally say yes to their inquiry as building a BB'd gun in 2017 is no longer legal.

.
I wonder how many people the DOJ has caught building illegal guns by asking the same question they asked the OP?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-15-2017, 10:54 AM
Trriemferent's Avatar
Trriemferent Trriemferent is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,157
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc559 View Post
I just responded saying this:

"It is an 80% lower that hasn't been milled yet to be considered an actual lower receiver. I was told by a friend to request a serial number PRIOR to doing anything to be California Compliant. I don't have the barrel or anything yet, I just wanted to make sure that I am following the law before doing anything as California gun laws are extremely confusing to the average law abiding citizen. This is what I want to build. I am trying to comply with all California state laws. As to my understanding, it is not an assault weapon until it is actually milled. I will not mill it until I get a serial number from the DOJ. Once milled it will be registered in your system as an assault weapon pursuant to AB 1135 and SB 880.
To make it 100% clear, it is NOT a stripped receiver as that is ILLEGAL. It is an 80% lower that hasn't been built yet."

I guess we'll see how they respond.
Is it milled or not. You start out by saying it hasnt been milled but end with it hasnt been built.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-16-2017, 9:39 PM
sbo80's Avatar
sbo80 sbo80 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 344
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

not even sure how you'd apply for a pre-build number. The BOF 1008, for requesting a number seems to only make sense if the firearm is already built. It has all the fields for a complete firearm (barrel length, caliber, etc.). I don't know if they expect people to pre-fill out info they don't have yet, or if there'll be a new form post july 2018. An un-built 80% can never be made into an AW anymore, so that DOJ question was very misleading. They likely didn't understand, since what you are asking for isn't required yet, and everyone else asking is doing it so they can AW register.

edit: there's a thread in "how ca laws apply" with the same basic question. apparently DOJ told someone, in an email, "The New Serial Number Application Form – BOF 1008 is currently only being used for Firearms Manufactured By Unlicensed Subjects (FMBUS) that are to be registered as assault weapons pursuant to AB 1135 and SB 880." It's not clear if the same form, or a new form, would be used for non-AW number issuing at a later time.

Last edited by sbo80; 12-16-2017 at 10:15 PM.. Reason: new info
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-18-2017, 2:19 PM
tlc559 tlc559 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 85
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

DOJ wrote back. You guys are correct.

"Hi *** –



Penal Code section 30900(b)(1) and California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5469 require that any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine – as defined in Penal Code section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool (commonly referred to as a bullet-button weapon) – must register the firearm before July 1, 2018.



Based on the information you provided, if you were to build a bullet button assault weapon at this time, you would be out of California compliance. You do have the option of making the firearm featureless pursuant to Penal Code section 30900(b)(1) and California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5472. If you decide to build a featureless firearm, you will still need a serial number assigned pursuant to Assembly Bill 857.



The application to request a unique serial number for a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm, pursuant to Assembly Bill 857, is not yet available and will commence on July 1, 2018. For additional information, you may view Assembly Bill 857 on the California Legislative Information website: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB857."

So thanks for everyone's input we are still allowed to build featureless rifles but must wait until they have a new system to request serial numbers hopefully sometime after July 1, 2018.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-18-2017, 3:03 PM
Milsurp1's Avatar
Milsurp1 Milsurp1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 506
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Well it is positive that the DoJ warned OP not to build a bullet button featured rifle. They could have sat silently and let OP follow the gun store’s advice.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-19-2017, 12:23 PM
tlc559 tlc559 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 85
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp1 View Post
Well it is positive that the DoJ warned OP not to build a bullet button featured rifle. They could have sat silently and let OP follow the gun store’s advice.
So maybe the DOJ isn't as malicious as we make them out to be?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-20-2017, 7:45 AM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 12,110
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Wait until a test case for that evaluation.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-22-2017, 8:02 AM
sbo80's Avatar
sbo80 sbo80 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 344
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

DOJ response still wasn't quite correct, no waiting is required. You only require a DOJ number if you build after Jul 1, or if on Jul 1 it still isn't engraved. You could still build featureless today, engrave your own number, then volreg before Jul 1.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-22-2017, 8:40 AM
russ69's Avatar
russ69 russ69 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,003
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc559 View Post
...It is UNBELIEVABLE that so many people (myself included) don't know about the laws here...
It's totally believable. The California gun laws are so convoluted even law enforcement doesn't know what the laws are.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-05-2018, 8:59 AM
PJBrags's Avatar
PJBrags PJBrags is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 98
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

I have an 80% AR pistol built in 2016 that I changed to a featureless, removed the bullet button and made it so I needed to breach the upper/lower to remove the magazine. Because it’s a 10.5 “ barrel, doesn’t this need to be registered as an Assault Weapon.

I know I was overkill with making an AR Pistol featureless. I just wasnt sure how the CA laws were being parceled out at the time.

How do I respond to the assault weapon with a bullet button question after submitting for a serial number? I thought an AR Pistol had to be registered as an assault weapon.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-05-2018, 12:40 PM
dwinters14's Avatar
dwinters14 dwinters14 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 525
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJBrags View Post
I have an 80% AR pistol built in 2016 that I changed to a featureless, removed the bullet button and made it so I needed to breach the upper/lower to remove the magazine. Because it’s a 10.5 “ barrel, doesn’t this need to be registered as an Assault Weapon.

I know I was overkill with making an AR Pistol featureless. I just wasnt sure how the CA laws were being parceled out at the time.

How do I respond to the assault weapon with a bullet button question after submitting for a serial number? I thought an AR Pistol had to be registered as an assault weapon.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sounds like you infact went fixed mag, not featureless. I've heard you cannot legally have a featureless pistol.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-05-2018, 1:28 PM
Flying Sig's Avatar
Flying Sig Flying Sig is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,081
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc559 View Post
So maybe the DOJ isn't as malicious as we make them out to be?
Haha, good one.
__________________
https://store.nwtmint.com/images/products/2012__orig.jpg
NRA Patron Member
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-05-2018, 1:44 PM
God Bless America's Avatar
God Bless America God Bless America is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,882
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlc559 View Post
So maybe the DOJ isn't as malicious as we make them out to be?
Xavier is anti-gun, many legislators bear malice towards guns and gun owners, but the DOJ employees I have dealt with have been polite and helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-07-2018, 7:26 PM
sbo80's Avatar
sbo80 sbo80 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 344
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJBrags View Post
I have an 80% AR pistol built in 2016 that I changed to a *fixed mag*, doesn’t this need to be registered as an Assault Weapon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PC 30515
(a)"assault weapon also means any of the following"
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following: ...

It doesn't matter what other features you have if the magazine is fixed. And barrel length has nothing to do with it, if it's a pistol it's a pistol. It cannot be an assault weapon with a fixed magazine. Even if you answered "yes" to wanting to register as an assault weapon, if you tell them the magazine is fixed they will reject your application. And it was already answered, you can't apply for a serial yet, unless it is for the purpose of registering as an assault weapon. So either wait until July, or engrave what you want now. You don't need their number yet.

Last edited by sbo80; 04-07-2018 at 7:35 PM.. Reason: .
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-07-2018, 7:33 PM
caliguy93's Avatar
caliguy93 caliguy93 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Koreafornia
Posts: 608
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

You can have a featureless pistol it’s just retarded

Must fill the magazine well with a single shot sled and use a fixed magazine device, possibly even a bullet button so that it cannot accept a magazine outside the pistol grip.

You must also not have a rail or hand guard and have the exposed barrel so that you don’t have a shroud.

Your barrel also must not be threaded

Viola! Featureless AR pistol
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-08-2018, 7:08 AM
paratroop's Avatar
paratroop paratroop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Simi
Posts: 1,576
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Caliguy, assault "pistols" have to be semi automatic. If you build a single shot, you are already "featureless"

You could remove the gas tube, and have a straight pull bolt action and keep your magazine and shoulder thing that goes up!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:17 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.