moving to CA with 30 round mags?

[mystery]

Im moving to LA in a few weeks (thanks to everyone for your tips on ranges from a previous post) - I have to admit Im confused. I totally get the 10 round mag and bullet button restrictions - installed a bullet button last night - however, I lived in CA in the mid 90s and owned several 30 round mags at that time. Does this mean they can be brought? or am I SOL and am restricted to 10 rnd mags?

[Calirvine]

Librarian
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 25,267
iTrader: 3 / 100%

Magazines: all the answers you need

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The wiki has a long article: Large-capacity magazine restrictions and there is a long thread here at Calguns but for those people who find themselves unable to click on a link:


Legal Considerations
California restricts certain things about magazines greater than 10 rounds; it has created a silly legal name for them - "large-capacity magazines" - and says we 'regular people' cannot import, sell, buy (effective 2014), or manufacture them. ("Dealer" FFLs may get licenses from DOJ for these activities; curio and relic licensees cannot.) The restriction applies to both centerfire and rimfire weapons.


It is perfectly legal - no restrictions at all in the Penal Code - to own and possess and use those "large-capacity magazines" in any gun*(see footnote), at any time, under any circumstances where it is legal to use a gun. Ownership, possession and use of "large-capacity magazines" are not crimes in PC; there is no section under which you could be charged.

There was language in 2013's AB 48 that would have banned large-capacity magazines; that language did not become law for 2014. But one other change did occur through that bill: the Penal Code was amended to prohibit 'buy'[ing]' a large-capacity magazine; that had been omitted before.
Those who own "large-capacity magazines" are not required to keep records or receipts, and not required to explain how they got them.


The age of the magazine and the age of the gun mean nothing. The critical item is possession of the magazine(s) in California before January 1, 2000.


Yes, you can go out of state and buy magazines of any capacity - but you may not bring "large-capacity magazines" back to CA - that would be importing and that can be charged as a felony. 'Importing' ALSO applies to moving here or visiting here. Buying and disassembling and bringing the magazines back to California after JAN 1, 2014 (AB 48) appears to be illegally importing a 'kit' .


YES, you may keep any 'parts kits' you own before Jan 1, 2014. It appears that acquiring a 'parts kit' by any means is illegal from 2014 forward.


Yes, you can take one of those kits you possessed in California before Jan 1, 2014 and create a 10-round magazine from the parts and some method of blocking the capacity; (Example deleted - bit rot). The modification is supposed to be 'permanent', but there is no guidance on what that means in law, regulation, or court cases. Use your best judgement.


You can have "large-capacity magazines"; no one may give them or sell them to you in California, and you may not give or sell them to anyone else in California; the law changed to be more specific in 2014: you may not buy or receive them. This includes sales from LEO and intrafamilial transfers - that can be charged as a felony.


There is no such thing as a "pre-ban" or "post-ban" "large-capacity magazine", and it doesn't matter. Markings on magazines have no legal meaning.


If you acquire large-capacity magazines legally, for example as a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO), yes, you may keep those magazines and continue to use them when/if you are no longer a LEO.
If you think your legal question has not been answered, follow the links at the top of this post and read the articles, then re-read items (2) and (3) above several times. Other questions are addressed below.


* Note: it is not a part of the "large-capacity magazine" law, but part of the 'assault weapon' law that says a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine that holds more than 10 rounds is an 'assault weapon'. (This is not a magazine restriction, this is an assault weapon restriction, that happens to include magazine capacity.)

That means that
if your otherwise legal semiautomatic, centerfire rifle has a magazine lock, such as a 'bullet button',
and you use a "large-capacity magazine" in that weapon, (which, because of the magazine lock is effectively a fixed magazine rifle)
then you will have manufactured an 'assault weapon'.
That's a felony. Don't do that.

NOTE: A Registered Assault Weapon (RAW) is already an 'assault weapon', and not included in this problem. If you have a RAW, use any magazine you legally own.

Sept 8, 2011 ETA

Political and Meta-legal items

No, there is no 'expiration date' or 'sunset' on the magazine law.
No, there is no possibility the law will be repealed with the Legislature we have in 2011.
No, there is no current lawsuit in place or planned on the topic - mostly because gun rights litigators in CA have higher priorities.
Yes, something is being done - but you must exercise a rare quality - patience! Look for a new thread in the 2nd Amendment Forum from member hoffmang - Gene Hoffman.

The 'nuisance' language in the renumbered Penal Code: this appears to be worrisome; please see this later post in this thread for a longer discussion.
__________________
Calguns Wiki, Magazine Qs, Knife laws

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum

Find the 2014 CA gun-law bill threads in this index
and the Federal bills in this index!

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.

[mystery]

Thanks for the reference material, though that doesn't specifically address my question.

If I owned magazines, moved out of state, am I free to bring them back with me or am I limited to 10 rnd?

Im not trying to be an *******, I am trying not to be a felon.

[tleeocinca]

I believe the information above answers your question.

"Yes, you can go out of state and buy magazines of any capacity - but you may not bring "large-capacity magazines" back to CA - that would be importing and that can be charged as a felony. 'Importing' ALSO applies to moving here or visiting here. Buying and disassembling and bringing the magazines back to California after JAN 1, 2014 (AB 48) appears to be illegally importing a 'kit' ."

[TheComebacKid]

Originally Posted by mystery

Thanks for the reference material, though that doesn't specifically address my question.

If I owned magazines, moved out of state, am I free to bring them back with me or am I limited to 10 rnd?

Im not trying to be an *******, I am trying not to be a felon.

If you legally owned 30 round magazines in CA, took them out of state, You legally cannot bring them back. I believe it would be okay to convert them to 10 round mags but you cannot import 30 round magazines into California unless you are a FFl, LEO, or gangster (/s)

[tleeocinca]

If you really want a certain answer, bring them back to CA and show them to a cop. If he lets you walk away, you're good.

[H K corporate assassin]

No you can't so keep it to yourself.

[xfer42]

If you had them in CA before the ban, then yes. You can take them out and bring them back.

[OmegaTrader]

Originally Posted by xfer42

If you had them in CA before the ban, then yes. You can take them out and bring them back.

I'm always curious as how they can tell if you own the mag prior to the ban. I don't know when the ban took place, but let's say it pre 2K. Are you supposed to save the receipt from then, or the CA DOJ have that in record?

[BumBum]

Originally Posted by TheComebacKid

If you legally owned 30 round magazines in CA, took them out of state, You legally cannot bring them back.

Originally Posted by H K corporate assassin

No you can't so keep it to yourself.

Originally Posted by xfer42

If you had them in CA before the ban, then yes. You can take them out and bring them back.

Lol, this is the embodiment of the wonderful world of attempted "legal advice" on message boards. I think we have the whole spectrum of possible answers covered here.

See Penal Code 32420 for your answer:

Section 32310 does not apply to the importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the same large-capacity magazine.

Clearly, if you are the owner of a legal large-capacity magazine and travel out of state with it, you can bring it back. This is different from magazine rebuild kits (AB 48, new for 2014), which contains no such provision. The only caveat here is that OP didn't just travel, but changed his residence to a different state entirely. Nonetheless, the plain language of the statute doesn't impose a time limit on how long the magazine can stay out of state, nor does it say anything about changing residency.

My answer is this - although the state has the burden to prove that you violated Penal Code 32310 (i.e., imported after the ban), it would be worth your while to have sufficient proof that you acquired the magazines in California prior to 1/1/2000. If you would be unable to prove this, then I would think seriously regarding whether they are worth bringing back.

Two other things to consider:

- You will not be able to use these large capacity magazines in a firearm with a bullet button, as this would create an illegal assault weapon (i.e., a fixed magazine capable of accepting more than 10 rounds). You can only use such magazine in a featureless firearm or in a Registered Assault Weapon ("RAW").

- Law enforcement officers are enabled to confiscate large capacity magazines that they come across as a nuisance. This is separate and apart from the Penal Code 32310 prohibition. While confiscation as a nuisance doesn't by itself constitute a basis for being arrested or charged with any crime, you will never see the magazine again and it will be destroyed.

As always, see my disclaimer below. I am not your attorney and you may have circumstances that I don't know about that could change how I view the situation.

[williamcm]

Depending on your age, you may be best off just keeping them as a parts kit you acquired before 2014 and they never left the state. Or just permanently modify them to only accept 10 rounds.

Just as a precaution, common sense, don't keep the parts kit with your rifle.

If this advice is wrong, I am happy to delete/edit. This is just how I interpreted it to it's simplest form as you are not required to provide proof.... until your butt is in court i guess

[HappyCamper781]

The simple answer is:

If you had them before the ban, you may still have them. You can also leave with them.

You cannot bring them back, or move here with them.

[mtn1977]

From my friend a leo , keep all large cap mags out of state if your caught with a kit or a complete mag your basically guilty , as seen by recent news of san fran lineman aldon smith . Because he has millions to hire lawyers his 3 felonys for possesion won't cost him. But you wouldn't be as lucky. Possesion of any high/large capacity mag or parts kit found in anyones possesion not pinned or altered to restrict to 10rds even if purchased before 2000 because who keeps mag receipts will be charged

[Chaos47]

Originally Posted by mtn1977

From my friend a leo , keep all large cap mags out of state if your caught with a kit or a complete mag your basically guilty , as seen by recent news of san fran lineman aldon smith . Because he has millions to hire lawyers his 3 felonys for possesion won't cost him. But you wouldn't be as lucky. Possesion of any high/large capacity mag or parts kit found in anyones possesion not pinned or altered to restrict to 10rds even if purchased before 2000 because who keeps mag receipts will be charged

Your sig is really appropriate for your post.
Major

[TheComebacKid]

Originally Posted by Chaos47

Your sig is really appropriate for your post.
Major

Could not agree more.

[Ag_Surfer]

I’m not debating if you can or can have them BUT is it really worth the possible hassle of having them.
Yes 10 rounder’s suck and its it’s not right… California is not right. Have some out of state friend or family hold for you for when you move out of state again.
"IT"S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE HERE"

[NulodPBall]

..

Originally Posted by BumBum

Lol, this is the embodiment of the wonderful world of attempted "legal advice" on message boards. I think we have the whole spectrum of possible answers covered here.

See Penal Code 32420 for your answer:



Clearly, if you are the owner of a legal large-capacity magazine and travel out of state with it, you can bring it back. This is different from magazine rebuild kits (AB 48, new for 2014), which contains no such provision. The only caveat here is that OP didn't just travel, but changed his residence to a different state entirely. Nonetheless, the plain language of the statute doesn't impose a time limit on how long the magazine can stay out of state, nor does it say anything about changing residency.

My answer is this - although the state has the burden to prove that you violated Penal Code 32310 (i.e., imported after the ban), it would be worth your while to have sufficient proof that you acquired the magazines in California prior to 1/1/2000. If you would be unable to prove this, then I would think seriously regarding whether they are worth bringing back.

Two other things to consider:

- You will not be able to use these large capacity magazines in a firearm with a bullet button, as this would create an illegal assault weapon (i.e., a fixed magazine capable of accepting more than 10 rounds). You can only use such magazine in a featureless firearm or in a Registered Assault Weapon ("RAW").

- Law enforcement officers are enabled to confiscate large capacity magazines that they come across as a nuisance. This is separate and apart from the Penal Code 32310 prohibition. While confiscation as a nuisance doesn't by itself constitute a basis for being arrested or charged with any crime, you will never see the magazine again and it will be destroyed.

As always, see my disclaimer below. I am not your attorney and you may have circumstances that I don't know about that could change how I view the situation.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by HappyCamper781

The simple answer is:

If you had them before the ban, you may still have them. You can also leave with them.

You cannot bring them back, or move here with them.

WTF are you talking about? The law clearly allows you to re import any large capacity magazine that you legally possessed while in CA prior to 1-1-2000.

[TheComebacKid]

Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER

WHF are you talking about? The law clearly allows you to re import any large capacity magazine that you legally possessed while in CA prior to 1-1-2000.

No it does not, If you legally owned them and take them out of state, taking them back into california would be considered importation, regardless of when or how you owned the.

[xfer42]

Originally Posted by TheComebacKid

No it does not, If you legally owned them and take them out of state, taking them back into california would be considered importation, regardless of when or how you owned the.

What do you make of 32420?:

32310. (a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section
32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2000, any
person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured,
imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for
sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity
magazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding
one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section
1170.
(b) For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes both
fabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combination
of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower,
and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning
large-capacity magazine.
...

32420. Section 32310 does not apply to the importation of a
large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the
large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000,
lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with
the same large-capacity magazine.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by TheComebacKid

No it does not, If you legally owned them and take them out of state, taking them back into california would be considered importation, regardless of when or how you owned the.

Yes it does. The law CLEARLY states it is legal. When I am wrong here, I openly admit to being wrong. In this case, I am right. I don't know what kind of person you are but, if you're like most here, you won't come back top this thread and admit that you were wrong, the same way HappyCamper781 doesn't admit when he is mistaken. Or, you can be a real man and admit that you didn't have a clue and were talking out your open breach but, now you have learned that it is 100% legal to take legally owned +10 round magazines out of Ca and then re import them.

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by TheComebacKid

No it does not, If you legally owned them and take them out of state, taking them back into california would be considered importation, regardless of when or how you owned the.

You know, you may be right here, I suppose that it would be "importation", or maybe more accurately put "Re-Importation."

But you seem to be equating "Importation" with "Illegal." That's not the case.

It's perfectly legal to "Import" large-capacity magazines into California, if they were lawfully possessed in the state prior to 1-1-2000. That's the whole purpose of Penal Code section 32420.

The only issue for the OP is whether he "lawfully possessed" his magazines in California, prior to 1-1-2000. I make the distinction because his postings communicated that he "lived" in California and "owned" several large-capacity magazines. Those two statements allow for the possibility that his magazines were outside of the state, in which case he may not legally bring them in.

[TheComebacKid]

Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER

Yes it does. The law CLEARLY states it is legal. When I am wrong here, I openly admit to being wrong. In this case, I am right. I don't know what kind of person you are but, if you're like most here, you won't come back top this thread and admit that you were wrong, the same way HappyCamper781 doesn't admit when he is mistaken. Or, you can be a real man and admit that you didn't have a clue and were talking out your open breach but, now you have learned that it is 100% legal to take legally owned +10 round magazines out of Ca and then re import them.

I have no problem admitting that I am wrong. Especially after the fact that I was under the impression that it was illegal to re-import them until I was presented with the penal code regarding that it IS legal. I don't understand why you are trying so hard to be passive aggressive, Implying that I wouldn't be a real man, or that I have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about. Yeah, I was wrong, but if you're going to resort to personal attacks, hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by TheComebacKid

I have no problem admitting that I am wrong. Especially after the fact that I was under the impression that it was illegal to re-import them until I was presented with the penal code regarding that it IS legal. I don't understand why you are trying so hard to be passive aggressive, Implying that I wouldn't be a real man, or that I have absolutely no clue what I'm talking about. Yeah, I was wrong, but if you're going to resort to personal attacks, hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

I wasn't implying that you wouldn't. Just, most here don't.

[residentbazinga]

Hey comeback kid. Don't worry about anything he says. He has done the same macho man talk to me before and mostly every thread that I have ever read that he makes a comment on, its always the same story. Don't ever stop asking questions or debating because I love to read and debate myself as does everyone else here I would think. But the difference between us is in the manner to which we debate...

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by residentbazinga

Hey comeback kid. Don't worry about anything he says. He has done the same macho man talk to me before and mostly every thread that I have ever read that he makes a comment on, its always the same story. Don't ever stop asking questions or debating because I love to read and debate myself as does everyone else here I would think. But the difference between us is in the manner to which we debate...

True, I can come off a little abrupt at times. I will talk the same way in person. Oh well, if anyone has an issue with it, they can take it up with me personally. I'm not the type that hides behind the keyboard. Instead, I'm the type who has a long track record of opening my home to fellow calgunners (even ones I've never met before), volunteering my time, firearms, ammo, tools, etc. at calgun events and even giving ammo and other items to those in need. So, if I offend someone because they posted something that was clearly wrong, what can I say other than they were wrong? In the case of this thread, if you notice the person who I originally corrected has, as expected, not come back to comment on his poor legal advise and the fact that he clearly didn't know WTF he was talking about but, he still tried to sound like he did. In comebackid's case. He came back and admitted he hadn't understood the law and was wrong. He gained respect in my eyes for doing that unlike a few others here who regularly post their incorrect take on the law and then run and hide when they are corrected.

[SarcoBlaster]

The amount of fail in this thread is astounding.

[HappyCamper781]

Re-importation aside, which, as CSA has noted, *is legal*, it is NOT legal to "move here with hi-caps". (unless legally possessed prior to 1999)

[urbanfood]

don't overcomplicate it. All you need to really know is that possession of magazines larger than 10 rounds is NOT illegal. at least not yet