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Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

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  #1  
Old 04-07-2013, 3:34 PM
swruger swruger is offline
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Default 9mm reload crimp measurements

Sorry about the horrible pic.

I am having to crimp to approximately .365 to .367 to get my reloads to drop properly into the barrel and match the depth of the factory Fiocchi.

In the image.

147 grain lead bullet: .353 to .354 at the base
Resized/Deprimed case: .371, drops into barrel properly
Factory Fiocchi: .375, drops into barrel properly
147 grain .380, does not drop all the way, close but no cigar
147 grain .365 yes, drops properly to same depth as factory
147 grain .372, does not drop all the way

All measurements are as close to the crimp as I could consistently measure. The circular marks around the crimp are where I was spinning the bullet in the caliper and watching measurements.

All bullets are seated at 1.130 to 1.132

http://www.mojavedesertphotography.c...tRZv&lb=1&s=X3

What am I doing wrong or is this within tolerance?

Last edited by swruger; 04-07-2013 at 3:39 PM.. Reason: correct data
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  #2  
Old 04-07-2013, 3:50 PM
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skibuff skibuff is offline
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The Factory Fiocchi cartridge has no relevance to you lead bullets. You nee to find the exact specs for the specific bullet you are using. Find out what the manufacture recommends for an OAL for that bullet. I would guess that the Ogive is getting stuck at the start of the barrel not not crimp related.
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Old 04-07-2013, 5:35 PM
swruger swruger is offline
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Friendswood Bullets

http://www.friendswoodbullet.com/9mm...x#.UWIdYCrn-Uk


Have requested load specs from the manufacturer. Most of the references I have found online for 147 grain lead rnfp refer to lyman manual.

OAL I have found range from 1.13 to 1.15
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Old 04-07-2013, 5:43 PM
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That's too much crimp... <.378
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Old 04-07-2013, 5:54 PM
swruger swruger is offline
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@ NiteQwill, Agreed, but at .378, will not drop fully into barrel. Ruger SR9c.
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Old 04-07-2013, 6:27 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
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Way too much crimp. In the pic you don't have any case mouth left. You should check your throat diameter.
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Old 04-07-2013, 6:59 PM
Bill Steele Bill Steele is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibuff View Post
The Factory Fiocchi cartridge has no relevance to you lead bullets. You nee to find the exact specs for the specific bullet you are using. Find out what the manufacture recommends for an OAL for that bullet. I would guess that the Ogive is getting stuck at the start of the barrel not not crimp related.
I agree this is the likely culprit.

Try making a dummy round but don't crimp the case mouth past straight. seat the bullet successively deeper until the round will chamber properly. That is the OAL you will need to use in that gun.

Use start loads for a 147gr lead and the powder you are using and work up slowly.

Have fun, good luck.
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Old 04-07-2013, 7:21 PM
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skibuff skibuff is offline
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Try the test Bill outlined. Use caution when seating a 9mm deeper case pressure increases fast. I've done tests and case pressure from max 1.169 to 1.090 is huge.

Some bullets ogive is too long for some barrels. You might not be able to use that bullet with that barrel. If I have issues and the bullet manufacture will not supply detailed data I would stop using their bullet. I've had 9mm bullets that work in a Sig 226 but the ogive is too long for a Sig 2022 without cutting OAL to unsafe ranges.
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Old 04-08-2013, 8:52 PM
swruger swruger is offline
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Thank you for the excellent input. All rounds have been duds, no primer, no powder.

Started all over, separated the crimping and seating steps from each other, and getting much closer to where it needs to be.

http://www.mojavedesertphotography.c...xnKQ&lb=1&s=X3

Crimp is approximately.375 to .376, drops in the barrel properly. I borrowed a friends caliper, I think my older rcbs dial caliper is not reading consistently.

Plan on loading at 1.130 OAL with either 3.8 to 4.2 of Unique or around 3.7 of Green Dot. Maybe try AA#5, but probably Unique.

Thank you again for everyone's input. Greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-09-2013, 4:39 AM
HighLander51 HighLander51 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibuff View Post
I've done tests and case pressure from max 1.169 to 1.090 is huge.
You have a pressure test barrel? Or did you mean velocity difference as measured by a chronograph.
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Old 04-09-2013, 4:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
You have a pressure test barrel? Or did you mean velocity difference as measured by a chronograph.

I would love to try the test with some expensive test equipment. I just made up a bunch of rounds starting at 1.169 and shortened the length by .010 until I got down to 1.090. My personal test was purely subjective to my observations of recoil, sound and fired case. It's amazing the difference in MAX to MIN OAL length. I did this with Medium/Light loads so I imagine loading hot loads would have an even larger impact but I like to play safe.

Make up 9 rounds at 1.169 and 1 at 1.090 all with the same powder charge and randomly load them in your mag I guarantee you will have no problem figuring out the short one.
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Old 04-09-2013, 4:15 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
You have a pressure test barrel? Or did you mean velocity difference as measured by a chronograph.
You can tell that by case expansion alone.
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Old 04-09-2013, 5:29 PM
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Along with everything everyone else has said, from my experience fiocchi brass tends to be on the thicker side. This along with the slightly larger bullet can sometimes cause an issue. I save all my Remington brass for loading lead. Do you have any Remington brass to try?
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Old 04-09-2013, 5:34 PM
Bill Steele Bill Steele is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M27 View Post
Along with everything everyone else has said, from my experience fiocchi brass tends to be on the thicker side. This along with the slightly larger bullet can sometimes cause an issue. I save all my Remington brass for loading lead. Do you have any Remington brass to try?
Spot on. Fiocchi some of the thickest, R-P some of the thinnest.

Winchester and Starline just right, kind of like the three bears.
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Old 04-09-2013, 5:46 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
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Not in 9mm. RP is on the thick side. Weigh the brass.
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Old 04-09-2013, 5:51 PM
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weight is not an absolute, but I will check that out with my calipers later
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Old 04-09-2013, 7:16 PM
Bill Steele Bill Steele is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
Not in 9mm. RP is on the thick side. Weigh the brass.
I have actually never paid attention to 9mm cases. I have always sorted my 45 Auto where the R-P brass is decidedly thinner and where I care most about it as that is where I load the most lead.

So I did totally scientific scoop of the hands in the bucket of 9mm brass sampling. I deprimed the brass and the weight results were definitely different than I would have expected versus my experience with R-P (and other headstamps) in 45 Auto.

The R-P were still on the light side of the various headstamps I scooped. The CBC (Magtech) was heavy, just like it is in 45 Auto. The Blazer brass also heavy, the FC (from I suspect their blasting ammo line was also very heavy). The heaviest cases weighed were WCC (NATO) brass.

The really interesting result was PMC, R-P, S&B and Win were all within a few tenths of a grain of each other (multiple were weighed in each headstamp) and decidedly lighter than the foregoing.

Another interesting result was the FC headstamp with cases that I assume were from their premium line as they had a mid-case cannlure, were by far the lightest of any I weighed (so I have a new favorite if I load some lead in 9mm in the future).

As M27 noted, weight is not the definitive factor as web thickness, primer cup architecture (the R-P brass has a big old chamfer cut around their primer pocket, just like in 45 Auto) has to have an fairly major impact on overall case weight versus the thickness of the brass.

I will try and find that ball end micrometer and do some measuring to get some definitive conclusions. In general, I think R-P, Win and PMC will still be my go to cases for lead and 9mm, when I don't have enough of that special cannelured FC stuff. For jacketed, Blazer, Magtech, run of the mill FC and NATO brass will be my jacketed fav's, if the ball end micrometer bears out the weight test results, that is.

Some fun.
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Last edited by Bill Steele; 04-09-2013 at 7:18 PM..
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  #18  
Old 04-09-2013, 11:46 PM
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9mm is listed as 1.169" max COAL if I recall correctly. Some bullets that I use for my mom's XD 9mm factory barrel have to be 1.115" with a 124 grain bullet. I run a barsto barrel in my competition XD, but I had the throat tapered deep enough to run my preferred bullet, and the chamber had to be finish reamed beyond what was done when barsto made the barrel. Now the magazine is my limiting factor since I run 40 cal mags (40 cal gun) for my 9mm ammo in this gun. Seating depth changes with the bullet and gun I load for.

I found I was crimping too much when using moly coated lead bullets. I set my crimp so that when a pull a crimped bullet, you can just see a line from the case mouth, but you can't feel it. This took my standard deviation in fps from 20-30fps or more to 6-8 fps over a string of 11 rounds with an average velocity of just over 1,000 fps. That is the same consistency as jacketed factory ammo in the same barrel.

I also use my fingers as a guide for crimp. The case should feel straight, without any flare at the mouth. The plunk test into the barrel works with all bullets I have used, except the moly coated lead bear creek in 9mm. They hand up just ever so slightly, but they run fine. I also can't use a case gauge to check those loaded rounds as it hangs up as well. All other bullet worked with a case gauge. It comes down to trial and error while being as careful and observant as possible when you work up a round for each gun.
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