Alcohol, bars and CCW

[f8f1]

First a little background as a Nevada CCW holder in Nevada, I can CCW in a bar and drink as long as I am not over a BAC of .10. I have a buddy who is a California resident and since his county wont issue a CCW he has an Arizona non-resident permit. In Arizona he cannot CCW in a bar or any establishment whose business is < 49% alcohol related and can not consume alcohol while CCW.

If he comes to visit me in Nevada is his CCW license valid in a bar in Nevada? So, in other words, which state rules do you follow, the rules in the state you are in or the state that issued the CCW?

[p7m8jg]

Guns and alcohol are a bad idea, no matter what state you're in.

IF Nevada honors his Arizona CCW I'd play it safe and follow Arizona's rules.

http://www.gunsguitars.com/nevada-co...city-maps.html

[003]

The laws of Nevada are applied in Nevada.

The following is a cut and paste from the Arizona DPS CCW page.


CAN I CARRY A FIREARM INTO AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT SERVES ALCOHOLIC DRINKS FOR CONSUMPTION ON THE PREMISES IF I HAVE MY CCW PERMIT?

Yes, unless the establishment has posted signs prohibiting weapons (A.R.S. 4-229). You may not consume alcohol while in possession of your firearm (A.R.S. 4-244). There are some additional exceptions see A.R.S. 13-3102.

[BAJ475]

As other have posted, alcohol and firearms is a bad combination and one should never consume alcohol while carrying, even if it is not prohibited by statute, regulation or rule of the IA. WA prohibits carrying in areas where persons under 21 are prohibited by state alcohol law, so you cannot lawfully carry in bars in WA even if you are not consuming alcohol. On the other hand, Nevada will allow me to carry in Casinos, where alcohol is served and will even allow me consume some alcohol. While not prohibited, it is still a very bad idea. While I am in NV casinos I carry but will not consume any alcohol. If you are ever confronted with a situation where you need to draw you weapon, you do not want an attorney representing the bad guy's family questioning your state of sobriety. So play it safe and utilize the common sense you were given.

[cyclopes85]

Probably not a good idea...

As CCW holders, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard.

It's the only way we'll keep our rights.

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[Bobby Ricigliano]

Also a common policy for LE agencies to forbid carrying while drinking alcohol off duty.

[BAJ475]

Originally Posted by cyclopes85

Probably not a good idea...

As CCW holders, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard....

I fully agree. And if we don't others will surely try to do so and if they are successful the message will be painful.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by f8f1

If he comes to visit me in Nevada is his CCW license valid in a bar in Nevada? So, in other words, which state rules do you follow, the rules in the state you are in or the state that issued the CCW?

NV LEOs will treat it as honored.
However, if anything happens in the establishment that sells alcohol for consumption and it's reported to AZ, his AZ CCW permit could be revoked for violating AZ laws prohibiting permit holders from carrying/consuming alcohol while carrying.

[baggss]

Can and should don't always coincide....

[CandG]

As Baggss said right above me, there's a difference between "can" and "should". In some states, it's legal to marry your first cousin.

If it can be avoided, I don't want to ever find myself in a situation where I have to convince a police officer that I acted in self defense while my breath smells like beer and whiskey.

[baggss]

Originally Posted by baggss

Can and should don't always coincide....

Originally Posted by cockedandglocked

As Baggss said right above me, there's a difference between "can" and "should". In some states, it's legal to marry your first cousin.

If it can be avoided, I don't want to ever find myself in a situation where I have to convince a police officer that I acted in self defense while my breath smells like beer and whiskey.

All of that being said though, I would think that since NV honors AZs permits, the person from AZ would be subject to NVs CCW laws when in NV.

Example: TX recognizes my CA CCW permit, but I still can not carry in places prohibited by TX law (30.05 and 30.06) while in TX just because CA says no guns signs have no force of law.

You follow the rules of the state you are in, with the knowledge is something goes sideways it may effect you CCW in your home state. This is where the "can and should" part comes into play.

[KCSemiAutoBob]

Saw this thread, and I gotta agree with Baggss. "Can" and "Should" don't always coincide. Just because I can carry a gun doesn't mean I shouldn't aim to avoid trouble.... Some good advice here from some wise individuals.

[Flying Sig]

I also think it’s a bad idea to ride a motorcycle without a helmet but I don’t think the OP was asking for my opinion....

[ModestoGuns]

Why not get a Utah one? Utah allows up to a .08.

[Big Jake]

Originally Posted by ModestoGuns

Why not get a Utah one? Utah allows up to a .08.

Or why not get a Nevada non-resident CCW and the whole conversation is moot!

[solidfreshdope]

Originally Posted by ModestoGuns

Why not get a Utah one? Utah allows up to a .08.

OP said NV allows up to .10 (which i am unsure if that is correct as it is above the legal limit of .08) and .10 is higher than .08


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[Quiet]

Originally Posted by solidfreshdope

OP said NV allows up to .10 (which i am unsure if that is correct as it is above the legal limit of .08) and .10 is higher than .08

It's correct.

NV laws sets the limit at 0.10. [NRS 202.257]

Many decades ago, the NV DUI limit was set at 0.10 and that was also used to determine the limit for possessing a firearm. Then, Federal laws were enacted that mandated a uniform DUI limit (0.08) that all States had to abide by. When the DUI limit was dropped to 0.08, they neglect to drop the firearm possession limit, so it remained at 0.10.



Nevada Revised Statue 202.257
1.  It is unlawful for a person who:
(a) Has a concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his or her blood or breath; or
(b) Is under the influence of any controlled substance, or is under the combined influence of intoxicating liquor and a controlled substance, or any person who inhales, ingests, applies or otherwise uses any chemical, poison or organic solvent, or any compound or combination of any of these, to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely exercising actual physical control of a firearm,
... to have in his or her actual physical possession any firearm. This prohibition does not apply to the actual physical possession of a firearm by a person who was within the person’s personal residence and had the firearm in his or her possession solely for self-defense.
2.  Any evidentiary test to determine whether a person has violated the provisions of subsection 1 must be administered in the same manner as an evidentiary test that is administered pursuant to NRS 484C.160 to 484C.250, inclusive, except that submission to the evidentiary test is required of any person who is requested by a police officer to submit to the test. If a person to be tested fails to submit to a required test as requested by a police officer, the officer may apply for a warrant or court order directing that reasonable force be used to the extent necessary to obtain the samples of blood from the person to be tested, if the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be tested was in violation of this section.
3.  Any person who violates the provisions of subsection 1 is guilty of a misdemeanor.
4.  A firearm is subject to forfeiture pursuant to NRS 179.1156 to 179.1205, inclusive, only if, during the violation of subsection 1, the firearm is brandished, aimed or otherwise handled by the person in a manner which endangered others.
5.  As used in this section, the phrase “concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his or her blood or breath” means 0.10 gram or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of the blood of a person or per 210 liters of his or her breath.

[solidfreshdope]

Originally Posted by Quiet

It's correct.

NV laws sets the limit at 0.10. [NRS 202.257]

Many decades ago, the NV DUI limit was set at 0.10 and that was also used to determine the limit for possessing a firearm. Then, Federal laws were enacted that mandated a uniform DUI limit (0.08) that all States had to abide by. When the DUI limit was dropped to 0.08, they neglect to drop the firearm possession limit, so it remained at 0.10.



Nevada Revised Statue 202.257
1.  It is unlawful for a person who:
(a) Has a concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his or her blood or breath; or
(b) Is under the influence of any controlled substance, or is under the combined influence of intoxicating liquor and a controlled substance, or any person who inhales, ingests, applies or otherwise uses any chemical, poison or organic solvent, or any compound or combination of any of these, to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely exercising actual physical control of a firearm,
... to have in his or her actual physical possession any firearm. This prohibition does not apply to the actual physical possession of a firearm by a person who was within the person’s personal residence and had the firearm in his or her possession solely for self-defense.
2.  Any evidentiary test to determine whether a person has violated the provisions of subsection 1 must be administered in the same manner as an evidentiary test that is administered pursuant to NRS 484C.160 to 484C.250, inclusive, except that submission to the evidentiary test is required of any person who is requested by a police officer to submit to the test. If a person to be tested fails to submit to a required test as requested by a police officer, the officer may apply for a warrant or court order directing that reasonable force be used to the extent necessary to obtain the samples of blood from the person to be tested, if the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be tested was in violation of this section.
3.  Any person who violates the provisions of subsection 1 is guilty of a misdemeanor.
4.  A firearm is subject to forfeiture pursuant to NRS 179.1156 to 179.1205, inclusive, only if, during the violation of subsection 1, the firearm is brandished, aimed or otherwise handled by the person in a manner which endangered others.
5.  As used in this section, the phrase “concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his or her blood or breath” means 0.10 gram or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of the blood of a person or per 210 liters of his or her breath.

Well alright, I guess he wouldn’t want the lower restriction then!


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[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by ModestoGuns

Why not get a Utah one? Utah allows up to a .08.

Yet, the BAC in Utah to get a DUI is .05. Utah is a good example of a state that thinks drinking and driving is more dangerous than having a drink while carrying a firearm. Don't get me wrong, Personally, I rarely drink nad, I do not condone mixing alcohol and firearms. But, is it really a problem if a +200lb person has half a glass of wine with their steak dinner while carrying at a restaurant or, is the designated driver and sitting in a bar while carrying but not drinking?

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER

Yet, the BAC in Utah to get a DUI is .05. Utah is a good example of a state that thinks drinking and driving is more dangerous than having a drink while carrying a firearm. Don't get me wrong, Personally, I rarely drink nad, I do not condone mixing alcohol and firearms. But, is it really a problem if a +200lb person has half a glass of wine with their steak dinner while carrying at a restaurant or, is the designated driver and sitting in a bar while carrying but not drinking?

Utah isn't .05 for driving YET. It drops to .05 in a couple weeks. FYI, since I know you are a Utah instructor as well. I contacted BCI a few weeks ago and the firearm limit is dropping to .05 as well.

I also do not drink a whole lot. However, usually when I do drink, it is at a social event where I drink a little more beer than just a half a glass haha. In those situations, my wife is usually the DD and she carries then. If we uber, etc, then we go unarmed for the evening.

[Mp5marley]

dont drink alcohol and have a soda save $7 and avoid the boarderline shooting thing...i am seriously gonna stop drinking and carry while at bar restaurants.. who knows now a days.. thoughts?

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by Mp5marley

dont drink alcohol and have a soda save $7 and avoid the boarderline shooting thing...i am seriously gonna stop drinking and carry while at bar restaurants.. who knows now a days.. thoughts?

Almost always, at least one of us is armed between my wife and I. If one of us wants a drink, the other carries the gun. It is very rare that we both have a drink together.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

Utah isn't .05 for driving YET. It drops to .05 in a couple weeks. FYI, since I know you are a Utah instructor as well. I contacted BCI a few weeks ago and the firearm limit is dropping to .05 as well.

I also do not drink a whole lot. However, usually when I do drink, it is at a social event where I drink a little more beer than just a half a glass haha. In those situations, my wife is usually the DD and she carries then. If we uber, etc, then we go unarmed for the evening.

Well, when I took my instructor class in Nov. 2017, they said that the DUI limit had dropped to 0.05 but the carry BAC was still at 0.08 however, they expected that to change to 0.05 at some point. I guess either they misspoke or I misheard that the DUI limit had not already changed.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER

Well, when I took my instructor class in Nov. 2017, they said that the DUI limit had dropped to 0.05 but the carry BAC was still at 0.08 however, they expected that to change to 0.05 at some point. I guess either they misspoke or I misheard that the DUI limit had not already changed.

Haha...OR they misspoke when I took mine or I misheard when I took mine!

[Citadelgrad87]

Originally Posted by 003

The laws of Nevada are applied in Nevada.

The following is a cut and paste from the Arizona DPS CCW page.


CAN I CARRY A FIREARM INTO AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT SERVES ALCOHOLIC DRINKS FOR CONSUMPTION ON THE PREMISES IF I HAVE MY CCW PERMIT?

Yes, unless the establishment has posted signs prohibiting weapons (A.R.S. 4-229). You may not consume alcohol while in possession of your firearm (A.R.S. 4-244). There are some additional exceptions see A.R.S. 13-3102.

Yes, but many reciprocity statutes specifically state that the terms of issue apply to you while in their state.

Tennessee has such a statute. My read was that my Cali restrictions, like school zones, apply, even though they dont under Tenessees laws.

More relevant to me, Tennessee issues general permits, not limited to specific weapons, while my permit lists the handguns by serial number.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87

Yes, but many reciprocity statutes specifically state that the terms of issue apply to you while in their state.

Tennessee has such a statute. My read was that my Cali restrictions, like school zones, apply, even though they dont under Tenessees laws.

More relevant to me, Tennessee issues general permits, not limited to specific weapons, while my permit lists the handguns by serial number.

Simple solution to that in Tennessee is get any non-resident permit (Tennessee accepts every state's permit)...

Also, in California, you are allowed to carry in a school zone but not on school grounds. Obviously, this is unless your IA says differently as a restriction on your permit...

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

Haha...OR they misspoke when I took mine or I misheard when I took mine!

No, you're correct that the .05 BAC limit hasn't gone into affect yet.

[concealcarrypizza]

Yes, you can carry in casinos and drink in NV with a reciprocated CCW.

Seems kinda crazy, but the law is the law.

Makes me wonder what Raiders games are going to be like.

I'm going to go ahead and guess they will be less rowdy and more polite.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by concealcarrypizza

Yes, you can carry in casinos and drink in NV with a reciprocated CCW.

Seems kinda crazy, but the law is the law.

Makes me wonder what Raiders games are going to be like.

I'm going to go ahead and guess they will be less rowdy and more polite.

But you may be in violation of the state that issued your CCW and if they ever found out, you could lose that CCW...

[ZirconJohn]

Here we go again … the answer to OP question is absolutely simple, an answer that only ignorance will play one to ask.

Now get this FIRST - I am NOT calling OP ignorant … IMO the question is ignorance [period].

And here is the utterly simplistic answer: alcohol and guns DO NOT MIX!

And does NOT matter if IA allows alcohol, and how much blood level … simply is ignorance.

YOU are the only master of your CCW - YOU are the only master of your vivid coherence, or lack of it by consumption of alcohol.

Unreal this dumb question comes up and wasted contemplation is placed on a question that already has an answer.

[f8f1]

Thanks to those who answered my question. I thought NV laws would govern in this situation.

For those who chose to insert whatever random comments and opinions as to the moral and or ethical aspects of my actions, well, your ignorance and bad manners are …

FYI, I have a local Pub a mile and a half ish from my house. It takes me about 30 minutes to walk. The route is through some dark rural and industrial areas. I don’t drink and drive (rideshare and taxis aren’t common in my area), so a nice walk in the spring and fall when I want to catch a ball game and have a couple of beers and a burger, is a good way to use up a few calories. NV law allows me to carry my firearm with me and I chose to do so (it’s a long walk to try and carry a cop). If you can’t, don’t or wont, that’s your choice.

[ZirconJohn]

No need to take it personal - and get hurt feelings. You asked the question, I gave an academic answer. Fact is fact - there are no feelings in facts.

You know it's said that denial is an admission of guilt … denial is very evident in your ^^^ statement.

If you want to carry CCW and go get lit … go ahead and knock yourself out. I am simply suggesting you think like a man and rationalize your thoughts to action. Maybe … just maybe you can intelligently realize that alcohol and guns do not mix … even though a Law says it's okay to do so. Just because a Law says it's okay to do something - does it mean you HAVE TO do that!?

Passing another vehicle on a broken white line 2 lane highway is legal. Ya … and head on collisions occur, and whether drivers are drinking, or not …, is that not true? [rhetorical for thought].

Anyway - do what you do and just think about it, just trying to help you think.

Do what you want - And as for me, so you know, I gave up alcohol 19 years ago. Ya - I'm alcoholic. This is NOT about that. Am I against alcohol? NO, absolutely not!

In my 19 years of sobriety I have tended bar in 4 different bars over about a 5 year span from 1999 to 2004 - at one point I worked 2 bars at the same time for 70 hour work week. I made A LOT of money. I have nothing against alcohol consumption, I pour a really good drink, X-alcoholics pour the best drinks. I don't think drinking is wrong or bad for you, I just think drinking is wrong and bad for me.

I remain - guns and alcohol do not mix.

Do the right thing … just do the right thing.

[concealcarrypizza]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

But you may be in violation of the state that issued your CCW and if they ever found out, you could lose that CCW...

You follow the laws of the state you are in. If your IA says you don't have to show your CCW to a police officer who pulls you over, but you are in TX where laws say CCW's show LTC permit at a traffic stop, you should follow TX law. By not showing your CCW ID in TX at a traffic stop, you are violating TX law.

If you CC an unlisted firearm in TX with a CA CCW, you are not breaking TX law. Also CA CCW laws do not apply in TX.

[f8f1]

Originally Posted by ZirconJohn

No need to take it personal - and get hurt feelings. You asked the question, I gave an academic answer. Fact is fact - there are no feelings in facts.

You know it's said that denial is an admission of guilt … denial is very evident in your ^^^ statement.

If you want to carry CCW and go get lit … go ahead and knock yourself out. I am simply suggesting you think like a man and rationalize your thoughts to action. Maybe … just maybe you can intelligently realize that alcohol and guns do not mix … even though a Law says it's okay to do so. Just because a Law says it's okay to do something - does it mean you HAVE TO do that!?

Passing another vehicle on a broken white line 2 lane highway is legal. Ya … and head on collisions occur, and whether drivers are drinking, or not …, is that not true? [rhetorical for thought].

Anyway - do what you do and just think about it, just trying to help you think.

Do what you want - And as for me, so you know, I gave up alcohol 19 years ago. Ya - I'm alcoholic. This is NOT about that. Am I against alcohol? NO, absolutely not!

In my 19 years of sobriety I have tended bar in 4 different bars over about a 5 year span from 1999 to 2004 - at one point I worked 2 bars at the same time for 70 hour work week. I made A LOT of money. I have nothing against alcohol consumption, I pour a really good drink, X-alcoholics pour the best drinks. I don't think drinking is wrong or bad for you, I just think drinking is wrong and bad for me.

I remain - guns and alcohol do not mix.

Do the right thing … just do the right thing.

Wow, glad I didn't mention I usually take my GWP (German Wirehair Pointer) with me also.

[diverwcw]

As a young officer in the early 1980s when I started my law enforcement career, one night after shift, several young officers decided to make a showing at a local bar, in violation of department policy, they were carrying off duty weapons. To make a very long story short, four officers confronted a couple of individuals, insults were hurled back and forth and that turned into threats and that turned into gun fire. Two of the officers were terminated, tried and convicted of various felonies, two remained on the job but received major discipline and sued civilly and were forced to pay punitive damages.

ZirconJohn is spot on, alcohol and guns do not mix.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by concealcarrypizza

You follow the laws of the state you are in. If your IA says you don't have to show your CCW to a police officer who pulls you over, but you are in TX where laws say CCW's show LTC permit at a traffic stop, you should follow TX law. By not showing your CCW ID in TX at a traffic stop, you are violating TX law.

If you CC an unlisted firearm in TX with a CA CCW, you are not breaking TX law. Also CA CCW laws do not apply in TX.

You actually follow the stricter of the two. Your Texas example is correct because you must follow Texas law while in Texas. However, the rules of the state that issued always follow you as well. They can revoke your permit (after going through their due process in some states) for violating their rules...

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Originally Posted by diverwcw

As a young officer in the early 1980s when I started my law enforcement career, one night after shift, several young officers decided to make a showing at a local bar, in violation of department policy, they were carrying off duty weapons. To make a very long story short, four officers confronted a couple of individuals, insults were hurled back and forth and that turned into threats and that turned into gun fire. Two of the officers were terminated, tried and convicted of various felonies, two remained on the job but received major discipline and sued civilly and were forced to pay punitive damages.

ZirconJohn is spot on, alcohol and guns do not mix.

I agree that alcohol and guns generally do not mix. However, I will venture to guess that all four of those officers were above a .10 BAC...One department I worked for allowed us to consume alcohol while carrying (small amounts). I would sometimes have 1 beer with dinner. If I drank more than that, I would not carry...

[concealcarrypizza]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

You actually follow the stricter of the two. Your Texas example is correct because you must follow Texas law while in Texas. However, the rules of the state that issued always follow you as well. They can revoke your permit (after going through their due process in some states) for violating their rules...

I don't see anywhere that says the rules of the CCW issuing state follow you out of state and the stricter one applies. So if I leave my CCW license at home when I am constitutionally carrying in Vermont, that is fine.

Another example, if I have a resident CA CCW and a non resident TX LTC, I can carry a firearm not listed on my CA CCW in Texas because the TX LTC applies to me when I am in Texas (TX LTC does not ask you to list cc firearms).

Therefore, state laws of where you are carrying are paramount regardless of which one is stricter.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

You won't be arrested for violating Texas law because you are not violating Texas law. However, if you are violating your IA's policies, they can revoke your permit.

While you are carrying in Texas, with the additional information you provided, you are not carrying under your California CCW, but your Texas CCW. I should have specified that the laws of your Issuing state only follow you if you are using that permit to carry.

However, if you are carrying in Nevada using your Texas CCW, you must follow the laws of Nevada.

However, if you violate any Texas rules, you may be subject to getting your permit revoked IF they ever found out. They would likely never find out, but I am telling you that you generally must follow the stricter of the two states

[concealcarrypizza]

Originally Posted by Whites of Their Eyes

However, if you violate any Texas rules, you may be subject to getting your permit revoked IF they ever found out. They would likely never find out, but I am telling you that you generally must follow the stricter of the two states

And I'm telling you that's wrong. Texas LTC cannot carry in bars period anywhere in Texas. Whether you drink or not.

However, if a Texas LTC goes to Nevada, they can enter bars and alcohol establishments. And you are not violating your Texas LTC when you do.