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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'. |
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Noah, the first prepper!?
Maybe the first recorded or first prepper we can put a name to?
This is also assuming he in fact exists in the first place. Don't comment on the religious aspect of this, not the purpose of the post. Saw the trailer for the new movie and I was like... "honey we need a boat in case of global flooding..." Anyone else have the same thought? Might be a good excuse to purchase a large boat.
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#3
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A boat needs a harbor. And a harbor is not safe during a tidal wave (tsunami).
If you live downstream from a major dam, then a flood could wash you away anytime. Also, if you live in lowlands around a river drainage, this could also happen anytime. An approaching hurricane can also bring flooding, but you can run from that if you leave early enough. Although it is plausible that many things written in the Bible are indeed historic, you must remember that it all started with Moses (Moshe in Hebrew) around 1200 B.C.E. which is approximately the same as the Trojan War in ancient Greece. A classic example of the likely validity of the Bible is the issue of the Hittites. For centuries, archaeology knew of no people like the Hittites, even though they were mentioned in the Bible. Then one day not long ago archaeology finally discovered them. Moses was writing a narrative of his own regarding what had gone before, during the previous 3 millennia. We don't know where Moses got his material from. The Epic of Gilgamesh mentions a great flood in Mesopotamia around 2200 B.C.E. That would have been 800 years before Moses. He might have been referring to that. There is not enough water on the Earth to flood all of it at the same time. Local flooding is possible anywhere however, or everywhere in a succession of storms. I am prepped and ready to bug out, with mobility for up to 800 miles (40 gallons of gasoline at 20 mpg), or to shelter in place for several months. Everyone should be. No boat however. Last edited by hks95134; 03-14-2014 at 3:00 PM.. |
#4
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Overall, good info thanks. Hadn't really considered getting a boat or how it would work when you would need to use it.
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#5
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This exactly!
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#6
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Just because you are following orders, doesn't mean you can't also be prepping. But by that same definition does that mean that all soldiers are also preppers?
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#7
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But omniscience kinda precludes those things, dont you think?
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#9
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For the purposes of Prepping:
If you believe the Bible, there will never be a global flood again. If you don't believe the Bible, there will never be a global flood again. Personal Beliefs: This type of erosion pattern is not possible unless the whole area you see was covered in water. |
#10
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What you have is lava plumes forming the granite mountains/plateaus, then being worn away by wind and weather, as the rock crumbles into sand and soil. Same as seamounts on the ocean floor. Not flooding. |
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No kitties then ???
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#12
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Not looking to hijack OP's thread so... |
#13
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Probably the first two things on Noah's Prep List were some shovels and jugs of good wine.
Wait.........did they have shovels back then? It should be an interesting movie.
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I think he got all the animals to fit by loading the carnivores first and then the herbivore species that went extinct.
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#16
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He didn't even know which ones would taste good If he had the tools to build an Ark.. I would assume they had something resembling a shovel.
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#17
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lol the noah story is a perfect story of prepers and non prepers. Hint all nonprepers die lol Joking aside it does serve as a good story to be prepared exspecially when you know its gonna happen. On a factual note if the flood wasnt global as the Bible states then by defination the Bible is false and the God of that book is fake. That said the main arugument is that it coulnd't happen beause there is not enough water on the earth to flood the whole earth. The two main problems with that the water could have just gone back into the earth as it did come from the deep and two that it is assumed that the earth is the same as it was then. Neither of those points are adressed by any argument I have ever listened to. Besides how do you explain the sea life level in the dirt found every where lol that said the Bible says go prep lol
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Norman Thomas - "The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing what happened. Winston Churchill -We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. - If you have ten thousand regulations, you destroy all respect for the law. " |
#19
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It also sounds as if you're implying the following: (Premise 1)If the Flood didn't happen, then that would mean God doesn't exist(or the bible is fallible). (Premise 2)But God does exist(or the bible is infallible). (Conclusion) So the Flood must have happened. But Premise 1 is clearly incorrect and you've only asserted Premise 2. Quote:
If you're claiming that the Earth was different back then and implying there was more water available or something else entirely, these are all additional claims you'd have to justify. |
#20
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I agree with speedrrracer. Noah was informed of a flood and started "reacting". I don't think that's what being prepared is all about.
The equivalent today would be if scientists informed you that some natural disaster was coming and you ran out and started buying supplies with everyone else. To be fair though, it would be more similar to a scientist telling ONLY you that a natural disaster was coming and then no one believing YOU when you told them. This is beneficial for you because there is no demand for supplies. If God had told EVERYONE that a flood was coming and everyone started fighting for supplies and wood, etc. - The man that already had a boat and supplies ready would be the one who was prepared. |
#21
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^ Incorrect. You prep (or not) based on the information available. That could come directly from God, scholarly journals, cable news channels, people you trust, random blogs or the voices in your head. No ones ever "knows" any future event, not even Noah, in any absolute metaphysical sense.
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#22
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I think it really just boils down to what we consider the meaning of a "prepper". If someone who drives to Safeway and successfully buys food and water when they find out a natural disaster will hit in 24 hours is a "prepper", then I'd agree Noah was too. Last edited by devious21; 03-18-2014 at 11:14 AM.. |
#23
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The great thing about the flood story in Genesis is that we can all consider ourselves "like Noah", in that, we have reasons to believe some disaster will occur that we need to prepare for. Our information may not have come from such an unimpeachable source as the mouth of God himself, but our respective sources may still be quite strong. And even Noah didn't "know" that there would be a flood; if he did, then he would have been some sort of deity himself and not a regular man. We are all operating on faith, of one type or another. Edit: Response to edit above. Are you talking about the timing or the surety of knowledge? If the former, Noah did his ark prepping way in advance of the flood itself. If the latter, is the claim that God offered Noah a vision of the flood, comparable to satellite images we have now? I haven't read Genesis recently, but I don't believe that was the case. Noah was not given any mystical knowledge, as I recall. Last edited by lasbrg; 03-18-2014 at 11:38 AM.. |
#24
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My point was, are you considered "prepared" for a disaster if in the end, you managed to acquire the necessary supplies?
For example, lets say the local supermarket had enough supplies for everyone in the town. You had zero planning but then during a massive blackout, you walked down to the store and bought all the supplies you needed to last you 2 weeks. Were you prepared because you had the supplies you need to thrive in the disaster regardless of how you came by them? If someone else handed you all your supplies, are you still considered prepared? If prepared means that you had the supplies to survive, then I agree Noah was a "prepper". I think being "prepared" normally implies some amount of forethought, risk assessment and planning the way "prepper" is normally used. God literally commanded Noah to build a boat and gave him the dimensions in which to build it. He didn't go "There may be water coming. Do what you need to do...". He literally said to him: “I am going to put an end to all people... So make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide and thirty cubits high. Make a roof for it, leaving below the roof an opening one cubit" I think it's the equivalent of a father instructing a son run to the store to pick up water and then saying that the son was prepared, instead of the father. Genesis 6:22 - "Noah did everything just as God commanded him." Last edited by devious21; 03-18-2014 at 11:50 AM.. |
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Genesis 6:13
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Genesis 6:22 Quote:
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#26
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For example. God commanded you to built an Ark because he was going to "destroy the earth". Let's say you weren't certain that God would follow through with his threat. But because you had belief or faith in God, you did as you were instructed. If God tells you to do something, even if he's lying or misleading you (aka Abraham), you still do it because you believe God is real and you still fear him regardless (...in holy fear built an ark to save his family). I don't think it really has anything to do with preparedness. It has to do with Belief and Faith in God when everyone around you is doubting you and testing your faith. You could look at this as a story of why it's good to be prepared but I'd be hard pressed to say Noah had the attributes of what we'd consider a "prepper". Last edited by devious21; 03-18-2014 at 12:50 PM.. |
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#28
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A new avenue of discussion; the "attributes" of a prepper. Since I don't know what these "attributes" are, I guess I have nothing to add here. My argument is a fairly simple "Noah prepared ergo Noah was a prepper". We agree to disagree.
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#29
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No. I'm trying confirm if "being a prepper" to you simply means having the necessary supplies during a disaster. If I hand my son supplies, is he a "prepper" because he is now prepared? If the answer is yes, than I agree with you.
If "being a prepper" to you carries no connotation of assessment of risk or planning and really just means "acquires supplies for a disaster" then we can agree. Quote:
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Like I said - If being "a prepper" simply means having the supplies, then yes, Noah had supplies and me and you agree. But I think it normally implies preparing for unforeseen events, creating plans of action, etc. Some conscious behavior of survivalism as opposed to just following orders. |
#30
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When I look up "prepper" it's basically a synonym for "survivalist". People that plan and prepare for unforeseen, worst case scenarios. If that's what we're talking about, then I don't think Noah fits. No more than a son doing what he's told. |
#31
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Before you talked "attributes of a prepper". Not you say "conscious behavior of survivalism". True, Noah was not exclusively concerned with his own survival, but so what? You think that being a prepper requires you to not care about other people or other things? Quote:
If you insist on making a distinction between Noah and the rest of us preppers, I would say it would be in the scale of his preps and his relationship with God. Otherwise I see no other difference between what he did and what we are doing. |
#32
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Getting to be an interesting argument. It should have posted.. give your definition of a prepper, sit back and watch the fireworks.
Let's look at it from this point, including the post "Encouraging others to be just a little prepared..." Completely hypothetical... I have a son living in LA. I told my son that he needs to be prepared for an earthquake. Give him instructions on what he should prep for in that situation. I in no way pay for his preps. He goes and listens, and does prep for an earthquake and follows my instructions. Does this mean he is not a prepper? Wikipedia lumps survivalist and preppers together. Read below. Quote:
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#33
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#34
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I was mostly joking about that which is why I included the smiley. But I was referring to:
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I made the parallel to Abraham which is also an example of "holy fear" and which Hebrews mentioned shortly after the discussion of Noah. ??? A big *** (ol') boat and food for himself, his family and all the animals... Quote:
I disagree with some of this but the problem of omniscience and free will goes down a pretty deep rabbit hole that I don't believe is required to prove either of our points. But let's put it this way. My son has free will. If I told him to run to the store and buy water, he's just following my orders. He has free will to disobey me, although he may fear punishment from me if he does so. Assuming he uses his own free will to follow my orders, does that make him a "prepper"? He didn't decide what is necessary or why or take anything into consideration but he WILL be prepared when everything is said and done. If you're answer to the bolded part is "Yes", we agree Noah is "a prepper" but we disagree on what "a prepper" typically is. |
#35
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One if the attributes I mentioned before is planning for unforeseen disasters. I think that sort of defines a survivalist. I think if you were just buying supplies for known disasters (aka hurricane's about to hit, go buy supplies), that's not typically what I'd consider a survivalist or "being prepared". But let's say you called your son in L.A. and said "I'm mad at the government and I'm going to detonate a bomb in L.A. and the power will be out for weeks. Buy everything on this list and you will truly be considered my son and I'll be proud of you." If your son follows your orders, does that make him a survivalist? For me, he would not really have any of the typical attributes of someone who knows survival skills, plans ahead (you planned ahead for him), learns first aid, etc. He's kind of like a personal assistant really. "Listen son, I'm going to take out the power in all of LA. I want you to build a cooler to these dimensions and put two of each of my steaks on ice and store enough ice to keep them cool for 3 days. Do this and I will truly love you." He might not know if you're serious but he also may be afraid to have you show up to find he hadn't built the cooler... Last edited by devious21; 03-18-2014 at 3:06 PM.. |
#36
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I would argue you can't prepare for unforeseen disasters, because you don't know what you are preparing for. You can prepare in general for what might happen based on possible known disasters. Forsee(n) to see or become aware of (something that has not yet happened) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foresee I would also argue that preppers prepare specifically for disasters that they do forsee happening to them. Case in point, look at my odds of disaster post. Many of the people who replied ignored the disasters they felt were not likely to happen to them, they ignored the unforseen events and focused on what they felt was likely to happen to them, the forseen events. Noah forsaw or became aware of the great flood because god told him. He obeyed because it meant he could survive. To really simplify it for me, a survivalist is someone who takes steps to ensure his survival. If Noah wasn't a prepper or survivalist, then he would not have taken steps to ensure his survival. Which means the boat was never made and filled with things to ensure the survival of himself and his family.
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#37
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Reacting to a threat and following orders I think is something much different. And as a previous poster said, bringing two or (14) of each animal wasn't to ensure his survival. He did so because he was commanded to. I guess you could make the argument that he brought the animals to survive against God as God may simply murdered him for disobeying orders. But I don't think that's the argument you're trying to make. Quote:
If God said "Put animals on a boat to protect them and when I smite the world, you and yours will perish but be brought with me in Heaven for eternity..." - Do you think Noah would have defied God and started collecting food to hideaway on the boat? |
#38
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I saw the trailer and thought the same thing.
I remember hearing in the trailer.. "When they come they will be many and desperate" or something like that. Hard to practice OPSEC when you are building a massive Ark. Tim G.
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#39
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People in my church(mostly vegetarian) will argue that He used them for a sacrifice. But, reading the Bible(Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) shows that the whole animal was not burned, but rather only the fat and organs was burned. The rest was cooked and eaten by the Priests. Also, if man had not been eating meat prior to the Flood, he would not have known how to cook meat. But, it seems, since that is not mentioned, that they knew how to cook meat. Some theorize that the "Daughters of Men" cooked meat, and Noah(and family) were familiar with that, so knew what to do. But, that seems to imply that eating meat is sinful, since the "Daughters of Men" may be the dark side of mankind. Also, it wasn't just 2 animals of each kind, it was 7 clean and 2 of unclean(Gen. 7). If you want to argue whether or not Noah was a prepper by doing what he was told to do, be my guest. However, the first really confirmed prepper would be Joseph in Egypt. Gen. 41. Pharaoh had a dream, Joseph interpreted it. There was no "command" to prepare, Just a dream of 7 fat cows and 7 skinny cows. Joseph's interpretation of that was there would be 7 good years and 7 bad years, so they(the Nation) neeeded to prepare. |
#40
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The second and seperat points as to the possible things such as the receading of the water and the earth being differant was possibilites as to why it might seem that there is not enough water to flood the whole earth. As to evidance that the earth was differant in the past there are tones of it. You have the tectonic plates which cause mountains to rise the earth was much flatter in the past, also there is the problems of all the contenats fitting together. Also if the earth was fully flooded it would cause a ton of changes to the earth. There is a ton of evidance as all ancient cultures have a flood story which would be obviouse if every culture is descended from the family of Noah as the Bible contends. Also as stated before you have the near universal layer of marine biology sedimant in the ground which simply means the whole earth was flooded at one point. Those two points of evidence is strong enough on their own to contend that the whole earth was flooded. The main argument against the stroy is a lack of mesurable water to flood the earth but it assumes that earth is the same now as it was then also they never mesure any loss of water into space from astroids or any of the water in the earth aka aquifers they only mesure the oceans. They also dont even mesure the ice sheats. The implications intelectually are simple if the Noah story is true then there is a God but if its false there is no God of the Bible. Since most of the proponets of the Flood are atheist (the scietists that is) they cannot accept the Flood as fact as it raises moral issues for themselves. Take it or leave it but either its true or its not in which case either have serouse applications.
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