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  #1  
Old 11-17-2017, 10:22 PM
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Default Norinco Chinese Makarov Came Home [Range Report w/Photo, see Post #5]

Back on October 27th I purchased a like new (no box) Norinco Model 59 Chinese Makarov that was on consignment at my LGS. (See original posting regarding purchase here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1393723)

Because it was still on the 30 day consignment hold, today was the first day could pick it up. I'd not seen it since I purchased it 21 days ago. When they brought it out of the back, I was again surprised and impressed by its condition. I've now had an opportunity to field strip it, remove the safety, firing pin, grip and main spring, and thoroughly examine it. I now firmly believe it to be unfired since it left the factory, absolutely lovely.

Below are a couple of photos of the pistol. These were just taken in my garage a little over an hour ago. I had to move around to get the lighting right to show the markings. However, the photos do not do justice to its deep polished blue finish. After my range session tomorrow, I should have a few photo with a target.

Photo 1



Photo 2

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  #2  
Old 11-17-2017, 10:27 PM
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Nice score!!!

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  #3  
Old 11-17-2017, 10:30 PM
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Excellent! I've been hunting the gun shows, pawn shops, and mom and pops for a super clean example. Still haven't found the right one yet. Congrats!


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Old 11-18-2017, 12:25 AM
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it is common that polices dont fire even one shot for their entire careers in China.

most of them dont know how to use guns
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Old 11-18-2017, 7:21 PM
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I took the Norinco to the range this morning. Not only does it look good, but it shoots pretty good, too. I fired 75 rounds of S&B 95gr FMJ through it with no problem whatsoever. The trigger is very good, for a Makarov.

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  #6  
Old 11-18-2017, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by nitroxdiver View Post
Excellent! I've been hunting the gun shows, pawn shops, and mom and pops for a super clean example. Still haven't found the right one yet. Congrats!


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I've come across maybe 2-4 in CA in last 10 years. In literally hundreds of gun shop and show visits a year.
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Old 11-18-2017, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by I Swan View Post
I've come across maybe 2-4 in CA in last 10 years. In literally hundreds of gun shop and show visits a year.


Wow!. I've passed up a bunch of beaters. Free state so I can buy anything I want any time I want so it's fun to just have it on my radar as I peruse shows, shops, and our online gun version of Craigslist. Very nice sample sir, enjoy it.


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Old 11-18-2017, 9:12 PM
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Originally Posted by nitroxdiver View Post
Wow!. I've passed up a bunch of beaters. Free state so I can buy anything I want any time I want so it's fun to just have it on my radar as I peruse shows, shops, and our online gun version of Craigslist. Very nice sample sir, enjoy it.


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Guns can be regional. Maybe many weren't sold in SoCal? But I travel a lot and don't see them often either. I have a feeling not all that many Chinese Makarovs were imported compared to some of the others. I don't exactly see commercial Russian Makarovs every day but I see a lot more of them for sale in my travels.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitroxdiver View Post
Wow!. I've passed up a bunch of beaters. Free state so I can buy anything I want any time I want so it's fun to just have it on my radar as I peruse shows, shops, and our online gun version of Craigslist. Very nice sample sir, enjoy it.
Thanks!

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Originally Posted by I Swan View Post
Guns can be regional. Maybe many weren't sold in SoCal? But I travel a lot and don't see them often either. I have a feeling not all that many Chinese Makarovs were imported compared to some of the others. I don't exactly see commercial Russian Makarovs every day but I see a lot more of them for sale in my travels.
I did some research and it seems the Chinese Maks were the first Maks to show up here beginning in 1988. The importer was located in Los Angeles, so there should have been some here in California. However, it appears that the first Norinco Maks to come in (w/serial numbers beginning with ZZ) numbered only about 3,000. They were followed by those brought imported by Beta Arms (which was apparently also a California company) with Serial numbers beginning with A or B. I think I read that Beta imported around 12,000 Maks.

In any event, the Chinese Maks were banned for import sometime in or around the early 1990s. There were a lot more of the Bulgarians and commercial Russians (with the large adjustable rear sight). The East Germans were imported in a lot less numbers than the Bulgarians or commercial Russians. I don't believe that Soviet military Maks were ever imported, except for the "Bulgarian Sneaks" that were mixed in with a shipment of Bulgarians to PW Arms (PWA) in Washington state. PWA apparently culled out the very rare Soviets Maks (after marking them as "BULG", of course ). I read the "sneaks" numbered around 300. Some Russian military Maks made it here as war trophies (no import markings), but those are very, very expensive and rarely show up for sale.
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:39 PM
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Where did you find this info on ZZ prefix Chinese Makarovs and Beta ones? I actually see about the same amount of either or a few more ZZ ones when I have seen them in pics or in person. Also importation didn't stop until late 94 I believe or early 95.

So you think only like 15k were imported? I have no idea on East German import numbers they don't pop up too often either. Or Bulgarian/Soviet sneaks. Heck I'd like to know double stack Russian Makarov import numbers.

I have actually seen 2 Russian military Makarovs no import marks in person both were gun shop or show finds by lucky friends. I am having a very hard time finding a Chinese 380 Makarov although I do know where I can get a Simson Suhl but seller knows what he has.
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Old 11-19-2017, 7:18 AM
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Default Norinco Chinese Makarov Came Home [Range Report w/Photo, see Post #5]



here is my russian ij70 380acp. it was ok until i added fab grips with thumb mag release and extended beavertail. now it is a fantastic shooter. i put 400 rounds through it before cleaning, fiocchi brass and russian steel fmj, and it ran perfectly.


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  #12  
Old 11-19-2017, 9:03 AM
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Originally Posted by I Swan View Post
Where did you find this info on ZZ prefix Chinese Makarovs and Beta ones? I actually see about the same amount of either or a few more ZZ ones when I have seen them in pics or in person. Also importation didn't stop until late 94 I believe or early 95.

So you think only like 15k were imported? I have no idea on East German import numbers they don't pop up too often either. Or Bulgarian/Soviet sneaks. Heck I'd like to know double stack Russian Makarov import numbers.

I have actually seen 2 Russian military Makarovs no import marks in person both were gun shop or show finds by lucky friends. I am having a very hard time finding a Chinese 380 Makarov although I do know where I can get a Simson Suhl but seller knows what he has.
I did a number of searches on the web running various search terms like: "Norinco Model 59 Makarov"; "Norinco Chinese Makarov"; "Norinco Makarov Beta Arms"; and, "Norinco ZZ Makarov". You get the idea.

Most of the info came from postings on various firearms and military forums. It appeared that most of the postings were from early 2000s. I saw a number from the 2002-4 time period. As for the exact numbers, that was a from a post from around 2004. I was doing the searches fast and furious to gain enough info to decide if I wanted to pay $500 for this baby, especially since I bought my other five Maks in around 1999-2003:

Bulgarian $129 at Texas gun show, Russian commercial IMEZ LNIB $125 at local gun shop in Texas; East German $159 at Texas gun show; Soviet (C&R) $275 from Makarov.com (back in 2004 when he use to sell Maks); Russian commercial Baikal $150 at LGS on consignment. So you can see, going $500 required some research.

I did not keep notes or print out the info. I might go back and do that over the next month or so.

HTH
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2017, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jstert View Post


here is my russian ij70 380acp. it was ok until i added fab grips with thumb mag release and extended beavertail. now it is a fantastic shooter. i put 400 rounds through it before cleaning, fiocchi brass and russian steel fmj, and it ran perfectly.


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I put one of those grips on my Bulgie Mak but haven't shot it since. What size grip wrap did you use? It was my most accurate and comfortable midsized pistol with the Pearce grip I had on it before. but selling out and getting outta Kommifornica took a lot of time and energy, hope to try it out soon. I did pick up 5 extra mags for it. Oh yeah it's registered as a C&R in Kommifornica!
Now in a free state I can look for one with the adjustable sights!
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Old 11-19-2017, 9:58 PM
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Default Norinco Chinese Makarov Came Home [Range Report w/Photo, see Post #5]

this ij70 is the bomb. you will love the fab grips. look at utube for installation tips, it is a tricky. a swiss army knife helps.

at one point while shooting i stupidly dropped it on the ground. i blew off the sand and dirt, and ran another 100 rounds through it.

i added the small size hogue wrap grip to the fab because i had it, it was partly ripped and trimmed from a prior use, and needed it on no other piece. it handily covers a slight protrusion from the fab grip screw.

where did you get extra mags? i read that 9mak mags work for 380acp.




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  #15  
Old 11-19-2017, 10:43 PM
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Yes magazines in 380 and 9x18 Makarov are interchangeable. Yes living in the past with pricing does hurt even with inflation figured in. There is an East German in the CGN marketplace for the low low price of $750.

One of my IJ-70's was $100 in around 2000 the other I forget but similar price. My East German around 2001 was $150. Both my Hi Cap Makarovs were sub $200 one in 2003 other around 2008. Bulgarians were all $160-200 2004-2006.

Russian sneak was $325 about 3 years ago. Chinese ZZ prefix in box with like 100-200 rounds of ammo I forget but was $129 in 2000.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jstert View Post
this ij70 is the bomb. you will love the fab grips. look at utube for installation tips, it is a tricky. a swiss army knife helps.

at one point while shooting i stupidly dropped it on the ground. i blew off the sand and dirt, and ran another 100 rounds through it.

i added the small size hogue wrap grip to the fab because i had it, it was partly ripped and trimmed from a prior use, and needed it on no other piece. it handily covers a slight protrusion from the fab grip screw.

where did you get extra mags? i read that 9mak mags work for 380acp.


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Once I used my brain and figured out how to pop the thingy in for the mag release it was pretty easy! I REALLY like the way it functions now, never did get comfortable with the bottom mag release with the original configuration, so any shooter Mak will be converted to this grip collectors will stay original.
I got the mags off Gunbroker or EBay, $8 each, and also bought 3 of those heavy duty follower depressor tools. Figured with 3 I wouldn't lose all of them, so far so good! One in the bag with the loaded mags, one in the Mak GO box with ammo, and one in the regular range box.
The Mak has been consistently the pistol I've been most accurate with, not sure why but it is.
Thanks for the Hogue info I have med size one in box here some where and was wondering if it would fit correctly maybe too large?
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Old 11-20-2017, 1:10 PM
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give the medium hogue a try, my small had a third cut off from when i jacked it up on another piece. i will check ebay for mags, i should have thought if it as i got a cleaning tool on ebay.

“heavy duty follower depressor tool”- ?


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Old 11-20-2017, 8:15 PM
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give the medium hogue a try, my small had a third cut off from when i jacked it up on another piece. i will check ebay for mags, i should have thought if it as i got a cleaning tool on ebay.

“heavy duty follower depressor tool”- ?


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Will try the grip when I find the right box, still unpacking from the move to here in ABQ, NM.
I took this photo a couple years ago when I was thinking about selling a "registered C&R Bulgie Mak" in Kommiefornica and before I replaced the grip.
Also tried the finger rest floor plate, don't need it now with the new grip.
The red thingie is the loading tool/follower depressor.


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Old 11-20-2017, 10:12 PM
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Will try the grip when I find the right box, still unpacking from the move to here in ABQ, NM.

I took this photo a couple years ago when I was thinking about selling a "registered C&R Bulgie Mak" in Kommiefornica and before I replaced the grip.

Also tried the finger rest floor plate, don't need it now with the new grip.

The red thingie is the loading tool/follower depressor.







thanks! i understand now about the red mag loader. to be honest my two mags are really easy to load, maybe i lucked out.


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Old 11-21-2017, 10:06 AM
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thanks! i understand now about the red mag loader. to be honest my two mags are really easy to load, maybe i lucked out.


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It was that metal tab that sticks out to depress the follower and split fingernails and fingers that encouraged me to look for some help! Depress the follower and basically drop the rounds in they work great and quick to load the mags, there are other versions out there including one home made with nuts, screws, washers and 3 pieces of metal! Some guys make there own out of plastic similar to the metal one I have.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:49 AM
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do you like using steel cased ammo in your MAKAROV? since it has a chrome lined chamber & barrel it should be tough enough, most of the surplus ammo was steel cased with steel jacketed bullets.
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Old 11-21-2017, 4:49 PM
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do you like using steel cased ammo in your MAKAROV? since it has a chrome lined chamber & barrel it should be tough enough, most of the surplus ammo was steel cased with steel jacketed bullets.
Actually that's all I use, Wolf ball or JHP.
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Old 11-21-2017, 9:36 PM
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Default Norinco Chinese Makarov Came Home [Range Report w/Photo, see Post #5]

i used $15/50 russian, steel cased, tulammo, 95gr fmj from walmt and the ij70 ran like a champ. im a revolver guy but after adding the fab grip the ij70 definitely has a front row seat in my safe.


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Old 11-22-2017, 12:21 AM
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My chicom mak is still unfired.

I have a bit of a collection of maks and toks.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:21 AM
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I've had a few hundred handguns
And the makarov is in my top 5.
I was recently blessed by a fellow calgunner
With an E. German MAK. Thank you!
It would prob be the last gun I'd let go.
Congrats on your find. Wear it out. I dare you.
You never will. Lol

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Old 11-24-2017, 5:08 PM
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just wondering for the mak aficiondos here... were any of the mak variants ever offered in “standard” 9x19mm nato ammo? until i found my ij70 in 380acp (9x17mm kurz) i had shied away from the mak variants to avoid trying to stock the more exotic 9x18mm makarov round. 380acp is pretty much everywhere these days but 9mm nato is obviously by far easiest to find at cheapest prices.


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Old 11-24-2017, 8:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger20 View Post
I've had a few hundred handguns
And the makarov is in my top 5.
I was recently blessed by a fellow calgunner
With an E. German MAK. Thank you!
It would prob be the last gun I'd let go.
Congrats on your find. Wear it out. I dare you.
You never will. Lol
When I was managing a range we managed to run a Makarov in to the ground it started developing some problems. Range rental guns take enormous abuse. It was a commercial Bulgarian. Oddly I think I remember the instruction manual claiming a 6k service life.
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Old 11-24-2017, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by jstert View Post
just wondering for the mak aficiondos here... were any of the mak variants ever offered in “standard” 9x19mm nato ammo? until i found my ij70 in 380acp (9x17mm kurz) i had shied away from the mak variants to avoid trying to stock the more exotic 9x18mm makarov round. 380acp is pretty much everywhere these days but 9mm nato is obviously by far easiest to find at cheapest prices.


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I believe one of the importers of the Russian commercial Makarovs was trying to develop one in 9x19 but it only made it to prototype stage and was not very successful. And the Clinton era ban on their import killed it off anyhow.
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Old 11-24-2017, 9:05 PM
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Glad you like it OP. I bought a Russian makarov about a year ago with the standard dark red grips and leather holster. Chambered in 9x18 mak.

I was really dissapointed when I shot it. It accurate but horribly snappy. Trigger was actually pretty decent. Because I have big hands it gave me slide bite something awful. I couldn't do more that 20 rounds before my hand was bleeding. I was hoping for more of a tokarev experience but not in this case.

It's a nice conversation piece though.
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Old 11-24-2017, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
Glad you like it OP. I bought a Russian makarov about a year ago with the standard dark red grips and leather holster. Chambered in 9x18 mak.

I was really dissapointed when I shot it. It accurate but horribly snappy. Trigger was actually pretty decent. Because I have big hands it gave me slide bite something awful. I couldn't do more that 20 rounds before my hand was bleeding. I was hoping for more of a tokarev experience but not in this case.

It's a nice conversation piece though.
Look at post #13, out one of those grips on your Mak it will eliminate the bite and also give you a side thumb release for the magazine.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by I Swan View Post
When I was managing a range we managed to run a Makarov in to the ground it started developing some problems. Range rental guns take enormous abuse. It was a commercial Bulgarian. Oddly I think I remember the instruction manual claiming a 6k service life.
Was the problem with the trigger bar? Back in 1999 or 2000, after buying my Bulgarian (excellent condition, not been shot much) and shooting a couple of hundred rounds through it, it would not function in double action mode. IIRC the single action was acting up, too. I examined the pistol and it appeared to be a problem with the part of the trigger bar that works on the sear.

Fortunately, back then new military parts were readily available (and cheap, too) at every gun show in South East Texas where I lived at the time. I had purchased various parts, including a trigger bar. So, I disassembled the pistol and changed out the trigger bar; no problem at all ever since then. At the time, I figured it might be either a general weakness with Makarovs, or perhaps a "one off" situation. So, just in case it was a general weakness, the next time I went to a local gun show I stocked up with three of those new military trigger bars. Even with all these extra parts I had, as it turned out, that was the only part I ever replaced on any of my Maks except, of course, the recoil springs. I have a 19 lb. Wolff recoil spring each of them.
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Old 11-25-2017, 9:57 PM
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I think so but I can't even remember was like 17 years ago.
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Old 11-26-2017, 8:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
Glad you like it OP. I bought a Russian makarov about a year ago with the standard dark red grips and leather holster. Chambered in 9x18 mak.

I was really dissapointed when I shot it. It accurate but horribly snappy. Trigger was actually pretty decent. Because I have big hands it gave me slide bite something awful. I couldn't do more that 20 rounds before my hand was bleeding. I was hoping for more of a tokarev experience but not in this case.

It's a nice conversation piece though.


$45 fab grips from ebay will be your mak’s bff.

i get horrible slide bite from my bersa thunder 380acp with no solution in sight. my 380acp mak will replace it.


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