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  #1  
Old 12-04-2017, 12:10 PM
arcangelwis arcangelwis is offline
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Default CA DOJ SIGNAGE AND FSC UPDATE

As some of you are aware Assembly Bill 1525 adds a few items to the agenda short and long term.

(CA DOJ has warned we are in violation if we post the 2019 signs now as they they take effect in 2019 and are incorrect for 2018. The CA DOJ inspectors are aware and enforcing this.)

1) New warning labels for any firearms transferred or sold in CA (DOJ provided) are required after 1.1.2018, order at tics@doj.ca.gov include your CFD number, contact name, contact number, full address and the total number needed planning for a 3-6 month supply. They say they will send a initial supply to each CFD holder by January 1, 2018 so watch your mail closely.

2) FSC instruction manual will be updated after the 1st of the year and will be required and ready for download.

3) The eight large 1" letter signs currently required stay in effect through 2018. As of 1.1.2019, one new sign is required and 3 others are updated.

They are available here:
https://shopnow.rkffl.com/products/2...d-replacements

4) New FSC Acknowledgement Receipt required before FSC Certificate is issued after 1.1.2019
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Last edited by arcangelwis; 01-17-2018 at 1:01 PM..
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2017, 3:10 PM
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Here is a PDF for printing on Tabloid paper of all the required signs effective 2019:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...1&d=1512432594
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ca_doj_signs_new_2019_tabloid.pdf (119.9 KB, 121 views)
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2017, 8:40 AM
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Again, thanks for the info OP and the .pdf Kemasa
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  #4  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Here is a PDF for printing on Tabloid paper of all the required signs effective 2019:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...1&d=1512432594

Thank you for the info
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2018, 4:20 PM
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so glad i kept the cardboard came with the safe lol



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  #6  
Old 01-15-2018, 9:25 AM
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I dare you to plaster them on the ceiling That's about the only room I have left for signage.
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  #7  
Old 01-15-2018, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
I dare you to plaster them on the ceiling That's about the only room I have left for signage.
I don't recall any requirements other than it has to be posted. The ceiling should be fine :-)
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  #8  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:52 AM
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I'll tempted...but I'd probably get a chiropractor bill from my next auditor.
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  #9  
Old 01-15-2018, 3:05 PM
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Well, you could print it backwards and hand them a mirror.
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2018, 9:56 AM
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The mind boggles with possibilities...
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  #11  
Old 01-16-2018, 1:33 PM
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this has to be i plain view?well i guess at that size the customer could read it from the parking lot


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  #12  
Old 01-17-2018, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsdude View Post
so glad i kept the cardboard came with the safe lol



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Unfortunately, those are the incorrect signs for 2018. The CA DOJ has warned me personally that these are incorrect and multiple violations because the wording is incorrect for 2018.
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2018, 3:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsdude View Post
so glad i kept the cardboard came with the safe lol
...
In looking at the photo, it looks like that is the 2019 version, which does not take effect until 2019.

The current 2018 signs are:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...1&d=1516321233
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ca_doj_signs_all_tabloid.pdf (115.8 KB, 34 views)
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2018, 3:51 PM
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is there any harm using the 19 posters?


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  #15  
Old 01-18-2018, 3:56 PM
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Old 01-18-2018, 3:56 PM
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Finally had a chance to get back on Calguns. All I can say is WOW what a furious pounding I have taken for pointing out the obvious. I posted only to help you guys get the correct information. Been off for months(since the last sign change) and I came back to HELP. tapatalk is hard to post with but I did not want upsman to get them up before correcting.

If Kemasa wants to challenge me on everything I will no longer post. You of course will be in the dark as he only posts after I put up the information on this subject. Kevin

Oh, I have a quote too!

After winning cheers and adoration from the crowd Babe sits down next to Hoggett whom says "That'll do pig, that'll do."
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Last edited by arcangelwis; 01-18-2018 at 6:42 PM.. Reason: Had to add (since the last sign change) because we have a proctologist on board
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2018, 4:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcangelwis View Post
Finally had a chance to get back on Calguns. All I can say is WOW what a furious pounding I have taken for pointing out the obvious. I posted only to help you guys get the correct information. Been off for months and I came back to HELP. tapatalk is hard to post with but I did not want upsman to get them up before correcting.

If Kemasa wants to challenge me on everything I will no longer post. You of course will be in the dark as he only posts after I put up the information on this subject. Kevin

Oh, I have a quote too!

After winning cheers and adoration from the crowd Babe sits down next to Hoggett whom says "That'll do pig, that'll do."
Can you tell us why the signage he posted is illegal? I just want to know whats missing.
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2018, 6:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Understood but he is an expert. I want to hear from the expert as to why what you posted is illegal or not.
Good evening,
The CA DOJ on this type of item would describe it as being in violation. Typically allowing you 3-5 days to correct the problem and email them pictures of the correct signage hung in your location. This happened many times as the dealers are inspected currently. They may be missing all or just one of the signs. Not having any signs posted has happened recently with a gunsmith. The DOJ asked him to get the signs up within 5 days and send them proof. But he was a small gunsmith with no transfers.

I have a contact with the DOJ whom I contact whenever I see the laws change. For example, on on first glance just saw the one new sign. The 2019 sign number one. After contacting CA DOJ and much review I confirmed that there is one new sign for 2019 and three of the existing signs were modified. It requires on my system 4 new posters.

As I stated in the first post I was TOLD with authority, no negotiation, very firmly that CA FFL dealers exhibiting the new signs would be in violation if the did not have the 2018 version also posted.

This is a business, I do this to produce income. I doubt I am in violation for providing up to date information to FFL dealers on Calguns. I see zero upside to having an argument in a public forum.

Different inspectors of the DOJ will have different approaches but all enforce the law. So far I have seen them just require immediate action to bring you into compliance for a sign violation. This may vary by inspector, your history with the DOJ or many other variables only they see.

You are always welcome to call to discuss these types of changes as they occur, a lot of folks do. Many were concerned when they received the notice about new signage and changes sent to every FFL with a CFD. I guided them through the information. Many had misread the dates of changes. Did not cost anyone a penny but me.

Even in my first post on this topic the link to my website would have shown any casual looker the four signs involved clearly.

As mentioned, one sign is new. One added a lot of verbage on top of a existing sign. The other two wording changes revolved around the fines being $5000 or $1000. Very similar wording but "significant fine" instead of monetary amounts.

Speaking about the picture of printing taped to cardboard I said was incorrect. I wanted him to know it was wrong quickly. Many police departments have copies of my posters in miniature or print outs from the CA DOJ. If he had a pre open inspection it would have saved him considerable embarrassment. I did not know his area or if he was a storefront. Most people look to me for help on compliance, I give frank honest advice to the best of my ability. CA DOJ is the authority on all matters.

I tell my customers if the DOJ sees my signage, with the correct count and wordage. They will move on to what they really wanna see, your guns and paperwork.

I will be back when the ammunition law is finalized with information on compliance. I cant type very fast so this is a lot for me. Ammunition law looks easy so far everybody!
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Last edited by arcangelwis; 01-18-2018 at 6:37 PM.. Reason: Need to find someone who can type for me, spellcheck proofread etc
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  #19  
Old 01-18-2018, 6:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcangelwis View Post
Good evening,
The CA DOJ on this type of item would describe it as being in violation. Typically allowing you 3-5 days to correct the problem and email them pictures of the correct signage hung in your location. This happened many times as the dealers are inspected currently. They may be missing all or just one of the signs. Not having any signs posted has happened recently with a gunsmith. The DOJ asked him to get the signs up within 5 days and send them proof. But he was a small gunsmith with no transfers.

I have a contact with the DOJ whom I contact whenever I see the laws change. For example, on on first glance just saw the one new sign. The 2019 sign number one. After contacting CA DOJ and much review I confirmed that there is one new sign for 2019 and three of the existing signs were modified. It requires on my system 4 new posters.

As I stated in the first post I was TOLD with authority, no negotiation, very firmly that CA FFL dealers exhibiting the new signs would be in violation if the did not have the 2018 version also posted.

This is a business, I do this to produce income. I doubt I am in violation for providing up to date information to FFL dealers on Calguns. I see zero upside to having an argument in a public forum.

Different inspectors of the DOJ will have different approaches but all enforce the law. So far I have seen them just require immediate action to bring you into compliance for a sign violation. This may vary by inspector, your history with the DOJ or many other variables only they see.

You are always welcome to call to discuss these types of changes as they occur, a lot of folks do. Many were concerned when they received the notice about new signage and changes sent to every FFL with a CFD. I guided them through the information. Many had misread the dates of changes. Did not cost anyone a penny but me.

Even in my first post on this topic the link to my website would have shown any casual looker the four signs involved clearly.

As mentioned, one sign is new. One added a lot of verbage on top of a existing sign. The other two wording changes revolved around the fines being $5000 or $1000. Very similar wording but "significant fine" instead of monetary amounts.

Speaking about the picture of printing taped to cardboard I said was incorrect. I wanted him to know it was wrong quickly. Many police departments have copies of my posters in miniature or print outs from the CA DOJ. If he had a pre open inspection it would have saved him considerable embarrassment. I did not know his area or if he was a storefront. Most people look to me for help on compliance, I give frank honest advice to the best of my ability. CA DOJ is the authority on all matters.

I tell my customers if the DOJ sees my signage, with the correct count and wordage. They will move on to what they really wanna see, your guns and paperwork.

I will be back when the ammunition law is finalized with information on compliance. I cant type very fast so this is a lot for me. Ammunition law looks easy so far everybody!
Thanks for voicing your opinion.
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  #20  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:45 AM
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Let's see if we can continue this conversation WITHOUT kemasa's snarky comments and bickering....
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  #21  
Old 01-19-2018, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcangelwis View Post
Good evening,
The CA DOJ on this type of item would describe it as being in violation. Typically allowing you 3-5 days to correct the problem and email them pictures of the correct signage hung in your location. This happened many times as the dealers are inspected currently. They may be missing all or just one of the signs. Not having any signs posted has happened recently with a gunsmith. The DOJ asked him to get the signs up within 5 days and send them proof. But he was a small gunsmith with no transfers.

I have a contact with the DOJ whom I contact whenever I see the laws change. For example, on on first glance just saw the one new sign. The 2019 sign number one. After contacting CA DOJ and much review I confirmed that there is one new sign for 2019 and three of the existing signs were modified. It requires on my system 4 new posters.

As I stated in the first post I was TOLD with authority, no negotiation, very firmly that CA FFL dealers exhibiting the new signs would be in violation if the did not have the 2018 version also posted.

This is a business, I do this to produce income. I doubt I am in violation for providing up to date information to FFL dealers on Calguns. I see zero upside to having an argument in a public forum.

Different inspectors of the DOJ will have different approaches but all enforce the law. So far I have seen them just require immediate action to bring you into compliance for a sign violation. This may vary by inspector, your history with the DOJ or many other variables only they see.

You are always welcome to call to discuss these types of changes as they occur, a lot of folks do. Many were concerned when they received the notice about new signage and changes sent to every FFL with a CFD. I guided them through the information. Many had misread the dates of changes. Did not cost anyone a penny but me.

Even in my first post on this topic the link to my website would have shown any casual looker the four signs involved clearly.

As mentioned, one sign is new. One added a lot of verbage on top of a existing sign. The other two wording changes revolved around the fines being $5000 or $1000. Very similar wording but "significant fine" instead of monetary amounts.

Speaking about the picture of printing taped to cardboard I said was incorrect. I wanted him to know it was wrong quickly. Many police departments have copies of my posters in miniature or print outs from the CA DOJ. If he had a pre open inspection it would have saved him considerable embarrassment. I did not know his area or if he was a storefront. Most people look to me for help on compliance, I give frank honest advice to the best of my ability. CA DOJ is the authority on all matters.

I tell my customers if the DOJ sees my signage, with the correct count and wordage. They will move on to what they really wanna see, your guns and paperwork.

I will be back when the ammunition law is finalized with information on compliance. I cant type very fast so this is a lot for me. Ammunition law looks easy so far everybody!

Thanks!! That clears up some confusion...
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Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. Rbt. Heinlein
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  #22  
Old 01-19-2018, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Let's see if we can continue this conversation WITHOUT kemasa's snarky comments and bickering....
I did not make any snarky comments not bickering. Instead you have a seller who is being deceptive, which is causing problems with FFLs. I have seen no proof that the seller is a FFL.

For some reason you decided to delete my posts saying that the issue was it was the 2019 signs, which is an issue since the previous signs needs to be used.

My answer to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by upsdude View Post
is there any harm using the 19 posters?
was removed.

Quote:
1. This forum is for FFLs and those who would like to ask questions in a civil manner.

2. This forum is to give our FFL members a public place to share information, thoughts and ideas as well as answer serious questions from the membership.

3. This is NOT a place to air your dislike of or personal grudge with a particular shop or FFL.

4. Post denigrating or insulting our FFL members will be removed and the poster will no longer be able to access this forum. If you have a legitimate issue with an FFL try to work it out between yourselves via PM first.

5. Questions for FFLs should be both civil and serious. Questions like 'Why do you gouge..' will get you removed and possibly banned. Frivolous questions will be deleted.

6. 'FFL Bashing' will NOT be tolerated in this forum at all.

7. In addition to these special rules, the standard rules still apply here as well.
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  #23  
Old 01-19-2018, 4:33 PM
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Are you quite sure you want to go down this road?

A) I can easily quote your deleted comments (Pro Tip: NOTHING is ever permanently deleted from an Admin).

B) I am quite familiar with the rules given that I wrote them.

C) I am also familiar with the General Rules of the entire forum, which do apply here.

D) I don't recall making you a Moderator nor subjecting the rules to your interpretation.
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Old 01-19-2018, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Are you quite sure you want to go down this road?
"on the road again...."

Last edited by taperxz; 01-19-2018 at 4:53 PM..
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  #25  
Old 01-19-2018, 4:50 PM
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What is wrong with asking that your rules be enforced? Yes, I know you are free to ignore the rules if you want and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

How about the issue that I raised, which others have commented on as well, which he said that the signs were a problem, yet did not say why? That caused problems. He has a problem with me because I provided other FFLs a FREE PDF for the signs, which he sells. That is the root cause of the problem. I guess you don't want to deal with the issue and I can guess why.

I guess I am mistaken when I thought that this forum was for FFLs and was not a selling forum.
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