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  #1  
Old 01-22-2016, 1:52 PM
GOLDEN GUN GOLDEN GUN is offline
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Default HOW TO:Interstate intrafamilial off roster handgun transfer

I finally spoke to my DOJ field rep and got a precise answer. This is what she said FFLs need to get it through.

Example: Father in state A wants to gift off roster handgun to son in California

Father signs a notarized letter indicating who he is, his address, his relationship to his son, who his son is, his sons address, and the make, model, and serial number of handgun, as well as the intention of gifting it to his son.

Father then includes a copy of his DL from State A verifying the information, the notarized letter, and the firearm in the same box and ships it directly to California FFL. (Father does not need to ship through an FFL in his state)

Once California FFL recieves package with all documents and firearms, Son can come in and Dros the handgun as an exempt handgun sale, pay Dros fees, and wait 10 days like an ordinary Dros.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE MAY THEY ALSO BRING IN ANY ASSUALT WEAPONS OR HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES FROM STATE A!!

Any questions?

This information comes straight from my DOJ field rep.

Disclosure: Field rep said it doesn't have to be notarized and it is at the discretion of FFL and what makes them feel comfortable in putting their license at risk. For me and the DOJ Field rep, we both agreed that a notarized letter indicating that information wth a copy of the DL is the strongest form of security in this transaction.
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  #2  
Old 01-22-2016, 2:08 PM
CAL.BAR CAL.BAR is offline
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Good luck finding an FFL to take a gun directly from a non FFL. I don't know any that will.
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  #3  
Old 01-22-2016, 2:19 PM
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I do
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2016, 4:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLDEN GUN View Post
I do
I do as well. I also input "intrafamilial transfer" in the comments section on the DROS.
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  #5  
Old 01-22-2016, 4:24 PM
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That's a good idea
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2016, 4:31 PM
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Would it be any less traumatic to the FFL if the out-of-state parent was visiting in CA and both parent and (adult) child walked in?
(Might have this happen in my family)

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  #7  
Old 01-22-2016, 4:36 PM
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What about brother to brother?
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  #8  
Old 01-22-2016, 4:39 PM
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Brother to brother is no go
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  #9  
Old 01-22-2016, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpod View Post
Would it be any less traumatic to the FFL if the out-of-state parent was visiting in CA and both parent and (adult) child walked in?
(Might have this happen in my family)

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No difference how the gun comes in to the state.. Notarized letter would still be required
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  #10  
Old 01-22-2016, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJB View Post
What about brother to brother?
Must be vertical transfer... Parent to Child, Child to parent, grandparent to grandchild, grandchild to grandparent
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  #11  
Old 01-22-2016, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Good luck finding an FFL to take a gun directly from a non FFL. I don't know any that will.
I do too.

I think it is just an extra hoop to jump through to require that the letter be notarized. The letter, with a copy of the ID, would be enough and the CA DOJ would have to prove that it was all false. The question is the extra "protection" worth requiring?
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  #12  
Old 01-22-2016, 4:46 PM
GOLDEN GUN GOLDEN GUN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
I do too.

I think it is just an extra hoop to jump through to require that the letter be notarized. The letter, with a copy of the ID, would be enough and the CA DOJ would have to prove that it was all false. The question is the extra "protection" worth requiring?
As I disclosed, DOJ agent said notarized was not necessary, only a signed letter was necessary... However she did say that that would be the strongest form of proof one can get alongside a drivers license. She said t is up the the dealer what they feel comfortable taking since it's their license
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2016, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLDEN GUN View Post
I finally spoke to my DOJ field rep and got a precise answer. This is what she said FFLs need to get it through.

Example: Father in state A wants to gift off roster handgun to son in California

Father signs a notarized letter indicating who he is, his address, his relationship to his son, who his son is, his sons address, and the make, model, and serial number of handgun, as well as the intention of gifting it to his son.

Father then includes a copy of his DL from State A verifying the information, the notarized letter, and the firearm in the same box and ships it directly to California FFL. (Father does not need to ship through an FFL in his state)

Once California FFL recieves package with all documents and firearms, Son can come in and Dros the handgun as an exempt handgun sale, pay Dros fees, and wait 10 days like an ordinary Dros.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE MAY THEY ALSO BRING IN ANY ASSUALT WEAPONS OR HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES FROM STATE A!!

Any questions?

This information comes straight from my DOJ field rep.

Disclosure: Field rep said it doesn't have to be notarized and it is at the discretion of FFL and what makes them feel comfortable in putting their license at risk. For me and the DOJ Field rep, we both agreed that a notarized letter indicating that information wth a copy of the DL is the strongest form of security in this transaction.
Good to know I've been doing it right. I also put this in the comments: "SB 15 Exempt - 27870PC intrafamily transfer, 12133PC Roster Exempt"

I don't know how much the notorization buys you though. Meaning it doesn't notarize the relationship. Just that the ID matches the person signing. I don't require that part.

E.g., Say we have:
John Doe Jr in CA
John Doe Sr in AZ (real dad)
John Doe in AZ (uncle)

I can get the notarized letter showing the Uncle is the "dad" on paper since the person doing the notary doesn't prove that. All they prove is that the "John Doe" signed the paper and his ID matched who he was.

If John Doe Jr is going to go through all that and perjure his uncle or friend named John Doe in AZ I'm not too worried. I would think the % of those really trying to work around the roster and willing to lie are very very low. I would suspect it would be easier for those types to go to a NV or AZ gun show and purchase from a private party.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2016, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLDEN GUN View Post
I finally spoke to my DOJ field rep and got a precise answer. This is what she said FFLs need to get it through.

Example: Father in state A wants to gift off roster handgun to son in California

Father signs a notarized letter indicating who he is, his address, his relationship to his son, who his son is, his sons address, and the make, model, and serial number of handgun, as well as the intention of gifting it to his son.

Father then includes a copy of his DL from State A verifying the information, the notarized letter, and the firearm in the same box and ships it directly to California FFL. (Father does not need to ship through an FFL in his state)

Once California FFL recieves package with all documents and firearms, Son can come in and Dros the handgun as an exempt handgun sale, pay Dros fees, and wait 10 days like an ordinary Dros.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE MAY THEY ALSO BRING IN ANY ASSUALT WEAPONS OR HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES FROM STATE A!!

Any questions?

This information comes straight from my DOJ field rep.

Disclosure: Field rep said it doesn't have to be notarized and it is at the discretion of FFL and what makes them feel comfortable in putting their license at risk. For me and the DOJ Field rep, we both agreed that a notarized letter indicating that information wth a copy of the DL is the strongest form of security in this transaction.
Is all that documentation necessary if they bring it in with them on a visit?

Never mind. Saw that someone already asked that. Egg is on my lazy face.

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Last edited by varanidguy; 01-23-2016 at 1:00 PM..
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2016, 2:06 PM
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Kinda crazy. I visited a LGS. He said that it is best FFL to FFL. Said two transfers were turned down recently cuz the one transferring had an Oregon DL. LGS is here in Santa Rosa.. Markets. The other, Rinkor, also suggested best to go FFL to FFL.

I'd love to be able to have my son send it directly with documentation directly to my FFL.
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2016, 2:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SRBill View Post
Kinda crazy. I visited a LGS. He said that it is best FFL to FFL. Said two transfers were turned down recently cuz the one transferring had an Oregon DL. LGS is here in Santa Rosa.. Markets. The other, Rinkor, also suggested best to go FFL to FFL.

I'd love to be able to have my son send it directly with documentation directly to my FFL.
If you don't mind driving to Fremont you can do it with us. http://ugimports.com/howto-transfer

Thanks
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2016, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRBill View Post
Kinda crazy. I visited a LGS. He said that it is best FFL to FFL. Said two transfers were turned down recently cuz the one transferring had an Oregon DL. LGS is here in Santa Rosa.. Markets. The other, Rinkor, also suggested best to go FFL to FFL.

I'd love to be able to have my son send it directly with documentation directly to my FFL.
Sometimes it is cheaper to ship using an FFL but there is no law prohibiting non-licensees to ship themselves.
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  #18  
Old 01-28-2016, 4:13 PM
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We did hundreds of these when we were still in CA. We never had the transferor notarize their letter and never had issues. We simply put "Inter-state Intra-family transfer, roster exempt" on every DROS and they were all approved.

As to receiving from individuals; we just require a photo of the seller's DL or state ID card by email first. Did hundreds of these as well. No troubles.
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  #19  
Old 01-28-2016, 4:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlacerTactical View Post
Sometimes it is cheaper to ship using an FFL but there is no law prohibiting non-licensees to ship themselves.

Correct, however their are federal laws regarding what courier may be used and how the firearms are shipped. FFL shipments for convenience, but not necessary.

We've done both shipments and walk-ins following the same procedure stated in the OP minus the notary. 27870PC intrafamily transfer is notated in the notes/comments section of the DROS, 4473, and our internal coversheet. Transferor doesn't even need to be present since it's not a PPT.
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  #20  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:01 AM
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We've never had an issue in our audits and never require anything notarized. In the comments we just put Intrafamily Transfer.

We had them put basic info on letter:
I, THEIR NAME, am gifting a MAKE AND MODEL to my SON/DAUGHTER/ETC THEIR NAME with serial XXX.

We also accept from individuals with copy of ID.

I don't understand how this would put a license at risk? If someone mails us a firearm with fraudulent intentions are we supposed to verify that the person is actually their grandparent or parents? People have had different names but we are not a background investigation agency, what do they expect us to do?
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  #21  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:05 AM
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We use this gift letter template:
http://www.ugimports.com/docs/Gift_F..._Template.docx
or
http://www.ugimports.com/docs/Gift_Firearm_Template.pdf
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  #22  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
Very nice!
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  #23  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:25 AM
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FYI, I would add a place for them to date when they signed it.
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  #24  
Old 01-29-2016, 10:55 AM
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funny, I never noticed that I didn't have date on that..thanks

--fixed, date added--
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  #25  
Old 02-26-2016, 3:43 PM
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Is a FSC necessary to receive the transferred firearm?
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  #26  
Old 02-26-2016, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by KBuilt View Post
Is a FSC necessary to receive the transferred firearm?
You're asking an interstate intrafamilial transfer thread so yes since it has to go through an FFL and DROS.

As I stated in your other thread, the OPLaw form requires an HSC/FSC number if you are using the OPLaw and you are both CA residents.
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Old 02-26-2016, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi View Post
You're asking an interstate intrafamilial transfer thread so yes since it has to go through an FFL and DROS.

As I stated in your other thread, the OPLaw form requires an HSC/FSC number if you are using the OPLaw and you are both CA residents.
Thank you for both. I didn't see your other post on the thread before this post.
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  #28  
Old 04-27-2016, 5:30 AM
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How many guns can be gifting at a time? Let's say 3 off-roster pistols, is this okay? Thanks
The 1 in 30 day limitation applies for handguns.
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  #29  
Old 04-27-2016, 7:40 AM
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How many guns can be gifting at a time? Let's say 3 off-roster pistols, is this okay? Thanks
Yes, but as EBR said only 1-30 can be transferred at a time. I don't care if my customers receives all 3 at the same time, but he will get them over a 70-90 day period.
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Old 04-30-2016, 7:09 PM
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Yes, but as EBR said only 1-30 can be transferred at a time. I don't care if my customers receives all 3 at the same time, but he will get them over a 70-90 day period.
Thank you. That's all I need to know. I'm aware of the 1-30. At least they are in the FFL's safe, and all I need to do is wait.
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  #31  
Old 05-01-2016, 5:09 PM
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Hoping to get some more opinions...

I have been reading a lot about intrafamilial interstate transfers, and I spoke with an FFL in Burbank about my particular situation today and I wanted to find out what you all thought.

My father is a resident of Texas, but he is visiting me here in CA, in August. He is planning to gift me an off-roster handgun (for my birthday) when he comes to visit, so he asked me to figure out the best way to do this while staying compliant with CA laws.

The FFL I spoke to in Burbank said that since my father is physically bringing his firearm into CA to gift to me, I only need to fill out an intrafamilial transfer form and submit it with a $19 check. No need to go through an FFL. From the earlier posts, it seems like this FFL is incorrect?

If the FFL is correct, does the 1 every 30 rule apply, or can he gift me more than one at a time?

Last edited by huktunfonikz; 05-01-2016 at 5:14 PM..
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Old 05-01-2016, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huktunfonikz View Post
Hoping to get some more opinions...

I have been reading a lot about intrafamilial interstate transfers, and I spoke with an FFL in Burbank about my particular situation today and I wanted to find out what you all thought.

My father is a resident of Texas, but he is visiting me here in CA, in August. He is planning to gift me an off-roster handgun (for my birthday) when he comes to visit, so he asked me to figure out the best way to do this while staying compliant with CA laws.

The FFL I spoke to in Burbank said that since my father is physically bringing his firearm into CA to gift to me, I only need to fill out an intrafamilial transfer form and submit it with a $19 check. No need to go through an FFL. From the earlier posts, it seems like this FFL is incorrect?

If the FFL is correct, does the 1 every 30 rule apply, or can he gift me more than one at a time?
the FFL is incorrect.

federal law prohibits your father from transfering a firearm to a resident of a different state than your father lives in without using an FFL. your FFL is suggesting your father commit a federal FELONY and then have you document his felony by sending in proof to CADOJ.
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  #33  
Old 05-01-2016, 5:26 PM
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I have a buddy that needs to transfer 30 hand guns that are reg to his Dad in NYC.....the FFL here told him only the ones that are on CA roster can be transferred because of NYC.....

He's in Encinitas is their a FFL nearby that can make this happen?
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Old 05-01-2016, 5:47 PM
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I have a buddy that needs to transfer 30 hand guns that are reg to his Dad in NYC.....the FFL here told him only the ones that are on CA roster can be transferred because of NYC.....

He's in Encinitas is their a FFL nearby that can make this happen?
Intrafamilial transfers are exempt from the roster, BUT if it goes through a FFL, it is not exempt from the 1 in 30.
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  #35  
Old 05-01-2016, 6:00 PM
huktunfonikz huktunfonikz is offline
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Thanks Jack - that is kind of what I thought as well, based on what I have read. Unfortunately it also seems rather difficult to find someone in LA area that knows what to do. I think Martin B Retting is the only FFL that I have spoken to over the phone that might have a clue, but they are also across town for me.

Anyone have any other FFL recommendations a little closer to Pasadena, that also know how to handle this type of transfer?

Last edited by huktunfonikz; 05-01-2016 at 6:15 PM..
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  #36  
Old 05-01-2016, 7:31 PM
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^^^and I need one for San Diego
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  #37  
Old 05-05-2016, 7:02 PM
NatetheGr8 NatetheGr8 is offline
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Suggestions for Nor Cal FFL that knows how to do this? Also just curious if the intrafamilial transfer is complete could the receiver PPT to another CA resident?

Last edited by NatetheGr8; 05-05-2016 at 7:15 PM..
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  #38  
Old 05-05-2016, 8:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatetheGr8 View Post
Suggestions for Nor Cal FFL that knows how to do this?
We are in Fremont and do interstate intrafamilial transfers - http://ugimports.com/howto-transfer

Quote:
Also just curious if the intrafamilial transfer is complete could the receiver PPT to another CA resident?
Yes, under current laws.

Was there a reason (saw something/read something) you were thinking that a CA resident wouldn't be able to PPT a firearm they no longer wanted?
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  #39  
Old 05-05-2016, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Good luck finding an FFL to take a gun directly from a non FFL. I don't know any that will.
I know of MANY - Aces in West Covina just received one for me $25 receiving fee & $25 DROS.
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  #40  
Old 05-07-2016, 12:55 PM
GOLDEN GUN GOLDEN GUN is offline
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I accept firearms from nonFFLs
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