Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs.

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-08-2017, 9:34 PM
revkev revkev is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 72
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default FFL threatens to not deliver

I have purchased several guns and had a rather odd experience the other day with an FFL for a BudsGuns transfer. I won't name names, but I was upset. Long story short, the FFL was ESL and said the wrong word for me to write. My Federal ID only has the letter "M" for my middle name so he said "By your M (in the middle name box) write hyphen and IO (for initial only I'm assuming). So I write:


He flips out and asked what am I doing, so I get upset and start returning his unprofessional attitude and told him I did what he said. What he meant was write IO in quotes like this:


But he said hyphen. So he is giving me attitude and telling me not to give him an attitude. I'm on my phone, I google "Hyphen" and showed him that it was a dash for the sole purpose of letting him know that his instructions were incorrect, thus the clerical error. Instead of conceding, he stands up and starts yelling and saying why do I have to prove who is right and says he is not delivering the gun anymore and actually gets up and opens the door. I am furious, but a little concerned now because his shop is his living room and I don't want him to find any reason to escalate this. So I bite my tongue (trust me, this is hard) and the whole time, he is just lecturing me that he is just following the rules...blah blah, I just stay quiet and he continues the transfer. We finally finish so I leave. 10 minutes later he calls me and says I need to go back because I failed to answer the "Are you hispanic" question. I won't lie, I give him an earful telling him that I won't turn back and that I never want to see him again..I told him to learn what a hyphen was and maybe added an expletive too. That was wrong.

Now my question is, does he have this right to NOT deliver on grounds that I had a bad attitude? I paid my DROS, cleared my background, and complied with everything else. I admit, attitude never fares well, but I was giving back what was received.

Now I'm worried this madman may try to do something with my registration. I have the DROS on me, but can he do anything to mess this up?

I am actually an affable and nice guy, but man, this just unearthed something in me.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 9:55 PM
scoutpup99 scoutpup99 is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: wildomar, CA
Posts: 697
iTrader: 24 / 100%

Yes. As a dealer we have the right to cancel any transaction that we want to.

Personally if I was the dealer and wasn't going to release I just wouldn't submit the Dros or collect the fee. I would call buds and have them send a call tag for a failed transfer. But since he submitted the dros you might be ok.

ATF has repeatedly told us that we should not release any firearm unless we are comfortable with the transfer. I have dealt with a few aholes, usually I just won't accept any more transfers for them. I only once have refused a transfer and I delivered the gun to a different dealer to handle the dros. That dealer refused all other transactions for that guy.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:28 PM
revkev revkev is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 72
iTrader: 3 / 100%

Interesting...and thank you for the reply. I will just take deep breaths next time if I ever encounter this again. Sorry, how do I know if he already submitted the DROS? I do have a copy of it. He collected the fee upfront at the first meeting. He said he wanted me to comeback to circle the proper answer to the Hispanic question but I refused. Is that part of the DROS. Can he claim that the application was not done properly? Just curious what are my possible repurcussions for my "bad attitude."

Last edited by revkev; 12-08-2017 at 10:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:33 PM
WartHog's Avatar
WartHog WartHog is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 2,796
iTrader: 18 / 100%

Tere Hanges?
Originally Posted by FrankMo View Post
Almost every poll shows Trump losing very badly, yet people still believe some conspiracy. The Republican party picked the weakest candidate so they have to own that.

Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:34 PM
ArmsUnlimited ArmsUnlimited is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,235
iTrader: 11 / 100%

If he already delivered the gun there is nothing he can do. He just wants that box checked on his paperwork to make it absolutely perfect for his next ATF or CADOJ inspection, though nothing negative will happen to him.

If he hasn't delivered the gun he can be a dick and cancel the transaction.
Subscribe to our email list for the latest deals/updates

Warehouse open to LE/MIL Only
3515 W Post Rd, Ste 125
Las Vegas, NV 89118
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:53 PM
revkev revkev is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 72
iTrader: 3 / 100%

Thanks. Gun is in my safe with the DROS.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:58 PM
ef9boy88 ef9boy88 is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 614
iTrader: 20 / 100%

Sounds like Ammo bros.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 11:29 PM
revkev revkev is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 72
iTrader: 3 / 100%

No, not them, but good to know...I won't name names
DIVEN LUI at Victory Firearms. Dude needs anger management STAT.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2017, 10:45 AM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,357
iTrader: 0 / 0%

There are two questions. While a dealer may have the right to cancel per the DOJ, they may be liable for damages for breach of contract if they cancel without good cause. Regardless, they delivered.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2017, 2:33 PM
allpoint's Avatar
allpoint allpoint is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southern, CA
Posts: 210
iTrader: 0 / 0%

FBI San Diego JTTF sent out a letter of "Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities Related to Firearms Shops and Ranges" and there is a paragraph that states: "Exercise your right to decline a transaction if the customer appears nervous or uneasy, avoid eye contact or if you are unsure the sale is legal." I think this is your catch-all letter to decline a transfer, which I've felt very suspicious.
No Right to Police Protection
Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)"fundamental principle of American law is that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [t]he duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2017, 10:21 AM
kemasa's Avatar
kemasa kemasa is offline
Calguns Addict
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ventura County, CA
Posts: 9,674
iTrader: 6 / 100%

It does not matter if your ID just has your middle initial, what matters is what your middle name is. If your ID has "M" for your middle name, but your middle name is really "Mark", then you need to write "Mark" down, not just M with the IO notation. Remember any false statements is illegal on a Federal form.

If your middle name is just an initial, then you need to mark it with "IO", but you do need to make it obvious, so using a hyphen makes sense: M - IO, M (IO), M "IO", etc. so that it does not look like your middle name is MIO.

Not checking the box on the 4473 is a problem for the FFL. He should have checked that at the start and checked it again at pickup. He should be nice in attempting to get you to go back, but then again after it is all signed it is not supposed to be changed, but instead copied and then the copy modified.

The FFL can refuse to transfer a firearm for any reason, but not after it was already transferred. If the FFL were to cancel the DROS after the firearm was delivered, they will have a lot of problems. The copy of the DROS should say that it was delivered on it, top right part of the printout.
FFL Transfer/Special Order Dealer since 1993.
Net-FFL list maintainer.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host., the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved. and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to