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Blades, Bows and Tools Discussion of non-firearm weapons and camping/survival tools.

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  #1  
Old 12-05-2017, 9:59 AM
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Default Thinking about open-carrying a dagger

From what I've been able to discern from my research, dirks and daggers are legal in California if they are worn exposed on the waist. I live in Santa Clara County if that makes a difference. I would not wear it in a school or government building.

I've been eyeing either this or this for my open carry. What are your thoughts on this and if you think it's okay, which one would you recommend I try out?
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2017, 10:57 AM
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Between the two, I would go with the first one, but mainly because I prefer plain edge blades to serrated or partial serrated.

I know your question is more about recommendation on the knife than about the action of open carrying a fixed blade, but be prepared to get hassled if you go this route. You're average Joe doesn't know it's legal to openly carry a fixed blade, and I'm sure you're more than aware of how some folks, particularly in the Bay Area, react to things that are black and scary.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:36 AM
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You may expect 'consensual contact' from PD in any urban area.

In other contexts, where an openly carried fixed-blade is not so strange-looking, probably will not raise any questions.
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2017, 11:45 AM
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PLEASE be careful. CA DOES NOT have preemption laws for knives. Every county, city, or municipality has their own laws which can and do vary quite widely. For example, here in SD Co, dirks/daggers are legal to open carry, but many cities within SD Co have banned them totally. These bans tend to be quite severe.

Be careful. Study up.
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2017, 11:49 AM
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I just got the Smith and Wesson HRT boot knife pretty sweet inexpensive dagger.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2017, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by AragornElessar86 View Post
PLEASE be careful. CA DOES NOT have preemption laws for knives. Every county, city, or municipality has their own laws which can and do vary quite widely. For example, here in SD Co, dirks/daggers are legal to open carry, but many cities within SD Co have banned them totally. These bans tend to be quite severe.

Be careful. Study up.
GREAT ADVICE. Better advice: DON'T DO IT! You are just begging for trouble. You WILL be stopped and harassed at best. At worse you may be arrested on any number of trumped up charges. Absolutely NO reason to carry a knife like that in county or city limits in public. Any cutting you need to do can be done better by a folding knife anyway.

Just because you CAN do something - doesn't mean you SHOULD.
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  #7  
Old 12-05-2017, 2:13 PM
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Ive been open carrying a 12" Kabar for 3 years now in SD. Never been talked to by police. Ive walked right by them and they don't seem to care. Laws do vary by city though so definitely check your local laws.
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  #8  
Old 12-05-2017, 6:02 PM
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GREAT ADVICE. Better advice: DON'T DO IT! You are just begging for trouble. You WILL be stopped and harassed at best. At worse you may be arrested on any number of trumped up charges. Absolutely NO reason to carry a knife like that in county or city limits in public. Any cutting you need to do can be done better by a folding knife anyway.

Just because you CAN do something - doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Disregard this sky is falling post OP. Youíll be fine.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:54 AM
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Could someone please educate me - Show me a link to our current Laws for edged tools..
I was my understanding in Kalifornia that a Double edge Blade/Knife (Sharpened top and bottom - Both edges) was Illegal to carry - knife not an Axe or other tool. It may be owned for collector purpose but not carried on ones body even in an exposed sheath Thus making a dagger questionable.
Thanks in advance for your time.
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Dogbite View Post
Could someone please educate me - Show me a link to our current Laws for edged tools..
I was my understanding in Kalifornia that a Double edge Blade/Knife (Sharpened top and bottom - Both edges) was Illegal to carry - knife not an Axe or other tool. It may be owned for collector purpose but not carried on ones body even in an exposed sheath Thus making a dagger questionable.
Thanks in advance for your time.
Dogbite,

You're close. In California, it is a felony to carry a concealed dagger. The offense does require the element of the dagger being concealed. Please refer to Penal Code section 21310. Here is the text

"Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who carries concealed upon the person any dirk or dagger is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170."

You should be aware of People v Hale, which was a concealed firearms case which essentially held that the concealment of any part of a firearm was illegal. The same rationale would apply to daggers. You could find yourself in trouble if any portion of the dagger were concealed.

You should also be aware, as prior posters have pointed out, that there is a plethora of local ordinances governing the carrying of knifes.
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Last edited by RickD427; 12-06-2017 at 12:37 PM..
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2017, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbite View Post
Could someone please educate me - Show me a link to our current Laws for edged tools..
I was my understanding in Kalifornia that a Double edge Blade/Knife (Sharpened top and bottom - Both edges) was Illegal to carry - knife not an Axe or other tool. It may be owned for collector purpose but not carried on ones body even in an exposed sheath Thus making a dagger questionable.
Thanks in advance for your time.
Funny - there's a sticky in this forum that has what you seek: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=815906 But even there the post notes that local jurisdictions have Their Own Ways and there just is no way to maintain that many possible codes.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 12-06-2017 at 12:32 PM..
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2017, 6:57 PM
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RickD427 & Librarian - Thank you
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2017, 7:12 PM
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What bout this kind of dirk? http://www.dirkbenedictcentral.com/
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2017, 12:03 PM
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Librarian or anyone else with links or knowledge-
What are the implied laws for carrying a Hatchet type tool Open carry or attached to my pack.
I carried one for years when I had to commute on the metro train in and out of Los Angeles quite a few years ago.
Are there Overall Length requirements, Head cutting surface length, ECT?
My tool is currently attached to my walking pack, which I carry in my car, if I ever needed to abandon my vehicle.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2017, 1:58 PM
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Like an openly carried knife, I suspect an openly carried hatchet-type tool would be fine in contexts where expected, and might draw attention in cities.

Nothing in PC, SFAICT. Cities/counties, too many to check, but many have their ordinances online.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #16  
Old 12-07-2017, 2:06 PM
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Discretion and discretionary are two points of view...
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Old 12-07-2017, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Like an openly carried knife, I suspect an openly carried hatchet-type tool would be fine in contexts where expected, and might draw attention in cities.

Nothing in PC, SFAICT. Cities/counties, too many to check, but many have their ordinances online.
Thank you for taking your time to respond. You have helped to educate me several times from multiple threads.
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  #18  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:36 AM
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Oh, my...

Seriously, what's the point? For hunting or outdoor stuff where a fixed blade is useful, okay. Sure. Open carry because you have to. It fits. But in populated areas where there is no practical application, the only reason I can see would be to attract attention. And that is the last thing I'd ever want to do.

Knives are good killing weapons but horrible defensive weapons. Cops report not even knowing that they've been stabbed until long after the attack is over. Deer have stood still and gone back to feeding after an arrow passes through them. Whatever force multiplier you use should be MORE effective than H2H, not less. Yes, you may kill them more effectively than bare hands. But that isn't your objective, I hope. Pepper spray or even a small flashlight would be more effective at STOPPING an attacker enough to create an avenue of escape. Knives kill. But they aren't good for stopping.

Besides, blending in and being part of the unassuming crowd is one of your best assets. Use it. Attracting attention is attracting trouble. If you have a weapon on you, then an attacker should not ever see it coming. Open carry of any weapon is just a bad idea all around.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 3000+ View Post
From what I've been able to discern from my research, dirks and daggers are legal in California if they are worn exposed on the waist. I live in Santa Clara County if that makes a difference. I would not wear it in a school or government building.

I've been eyeing either this or this for my open carry. What are your thoughts on this and if you think it's okay, which one would you recommend I try out?
I like the black one, but before dropping $100 on a 440C steel spike, I'd make sure the sheath is going to carry like you want... that little pocket clip is probably meant for inside a pocket. Make sure that knuckle hole-like feature isn't considered a brass knucke.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:59 AM
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If I carried a fixed blade with kydex or knife handle (depending on orientation) protruding below the beltline and untucked shirt, it would be something larger than any folder I could pocket (typically 3.5-4.1" blades).

I like a 6-7" blade, but still relatively compact for a fixed blade like a Jackmandu or Rodent 6. That'd be a wilderness or camping type knife for me, not a urban carry... but do what the hell you want if it is legal.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:29 PM
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Out of sight, out of mind. Fly under the radar. That's your best bet.
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Old 12-21-2017, 3:02 PM
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Out of sight, out of mind. Fly under the radar. That's your best bet.
Some people want to look like Jax from SOA with his stacked leather KABAR USMC.
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Old 12-22-2017, 6:00 AM
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OP, by now youíve read all the numerous replies discouraging you from openly carrying. I add my voice to the chorus as well. Itís not just a bad idea, itís a terrible idea for all the reasons fore mentioned. The only one possible exception I can think of where it would make sense is if you live in a rural area or work in a type of job where it becomes a tool and is needed because itís not practical to be constantly pulling a knife from your pocket.

Bottom line here is, it does make you a target and your objective should be to blend in and not draw attention to yourself.


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  #24  
Old 12-22-2017, 6:09 AM
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I carry a Winkler standard duty on my hip. Not a dagger but its a rather small knife. But I also live out in the sticks so thats pretty common out here.
You tend to see people wearing them in the cold months since normal EDC folders are harder to get on snow pants and easier to loose when your in 2ft of snow!

I dont know if I would wear it in the city in place of a folder though..

https://btacblades.com/products/wink...caswell-finish
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Old 12-22-2017, 6:13 AM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
If I carried a fixed blade with kydex or knife handle (depending on orientation) protruding below the beltline and untucked shirt, it would be something larger than any folder I could pocket (typically 3.5-4.1" blades).

I like a 6-7" blade, but still relatively compact for a fixed blade like a Jackmandu or Rodent 6. That'd be a wilderness or camping type knife for me, not a urban carry... but do what the hell you want if it is legal.
I'm merely quoting another post to suggest you ensure that no part of the knife/sheath is covered...see bold below. The way you describe it, I'm thinking that with an untucked shirt, there may be a portion of it concealed.

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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Dogbite,

You're close. In California, it is a felony to carry a concealed dagger. The offense does require the element of the dagger being concealed. Please refer to Penal Code section 21310. Here is the text

"Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who carries concealed upon the person any dirk or dagger is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170."

You should be aware of People v Hale, which was a concealed firearms case which essentially held that the concealment of any part of a firearm was illegal. The same rationale would apply to daggers. You could find yourself in trouble if any portion of the dagger were concealed.

You should also be aware, as prior posters have pointed out, that there is a plethora of local ordinances governing the carrying of knifes.
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  #26  
Old 12-22-2017, 6:26 AM
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Use your noggin, OP. The ring on the blades you posted look like knuckles to me.

Besides choosing a different blade, do what you want based on your environment. Typically folders on pocket clips are totally visible to most people and not out of the ordinary. I guess to some people a sheath on your belt makes you look like a bad guy and a folder sticking out of the pocket makes you look handy, hahahah. Not where I'm from.

When hiking a knife on your pack makes you look resourceful but on your waist, a thug biker? Hahahahhahahah.

It is always a tool. The folder might be a much better tool for the city, but I won't implore you or get all misty about it or sing you a chorus, heheh. Make your own call.
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Old 12-22-2017, 6:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofWWIIDI View Post
I'm merely quoting another post to suggest you ensure that no part of the knife/sheath is covered...see bold below. The way you describe it, I'm thinking that with an untucked shirt, there may be a portion of it concealed.
If it is protruding below an untucked shirt, personally I'd push the shirt under the sheath on one side (sheath side) to uncover handle and make it more accessible.
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Old 12-22-2017, 6:38 AM
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Everyone's all for the 2a, as long as it's double barrel skeet guns and granddads old huntin' rifle. ...and more importantly, only in the woods.
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Old 12-22-2017, 6:47 AM
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Everyone's all for the 2a, as long as it's double barrel skeet guns and granddads old huntin' rifle. ...and more importantly, only in the woods.
Ain't that the truth
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  #30  
Old 12-28-2017, 4:24 AM
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This

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/hand-t...ves/48-22-1920

Or
This

http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/hv...ted-duct-knife
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