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  #1  
Old 05-15-2017, 9:55 AM
Nardo1895 Nardo1895 is offline
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Default Accepting Credit Card Payments?

I have a non store front FFL business and am a pretty low volume operation. I was looking into the possibility of accepting credit card payments, especially for on-line sales. I have heard that many companies including places like "Square" won't do firearms transactions.

I contacted Merchants Services which took over for McMillian and was reported by NRA to be gun friendly. They were, but on top of charging about 2% per transaction they also have monthly ($10) and annual (forgot how much) fees. Non "card-present" transactions are even more.

They directed me to "Pistol Pay" which sounded like it might work. Transaction costs are pretty high, but they don't have monthly or annual fees. After registering I got the impression they are not updating their website and may be in trouble?

Do any of you smaller FFLs accept credit cards and have you found a cost effective gun friendly way to do it?

Have any of you done business with Pistol Pay? My inner voice is telling me "danger" but they were recommended by Merchants Services which was in turn recommended by NRA.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:57 AM
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If you use Square be prepared for your account to just be closed one day and funds held.

Unfortunately Gun Dealers are labeled 'High Risk' and us low volume dealers get bent over on fees.

Do not use Mercury who is now Vantiv. They mishandled a charge back on us in a high amount and we were out thousands for 6 months.

Reach out to Lindze Jackson, ljackson@clearent.com, 561-531-7422 he has taken good care of us and NRA approved with very good rates.
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  #3  
Old 05-15-2017, 4:00 PM
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The question is whether it is worth it to take credit cards. Charge backs can be an issue, plus it costs you money for the transactions and in the case of DROS fees you can't increase the amount to make up for it.

It all depends on what type of business you do and the volume. You might lose some sales, but I doubt that you would lose money on transfers.
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Old 05-15-2017, 7:56 PM
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I know we are diacussing home based FFL's but I think in my whole life and visits to hundreds of gun shops I have only seen like 2-3 that were cash only. I know some that really discourage CC use though.
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Old 05-15-2017, 10:40 PM
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B&M really don't have much of a choice when it comes to credit cards.
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  #6  
Old 05-16-2017, 5:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Swan View Post
I know we are diacussing home based FFL's but I think in my whole life and visits to hundreds of gun shops I have only seen like 2-3 that were cash only. I know some that really discourage CC use though.


Depends at markup. We try and compete with online stores and don't have the B&M to get walk ins. If you sell at MSRP you can eat the CC fee. For us the CC fee is often more than the markup of the gun.
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Old 05-16-2017, 6:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo1895 View Post
I have a non store front FFL business and am a pretty low volume operation. I was looking into the possibility of accepting credit card payments, especially for on-line sales. I have heard that many companies including places like "Square" won't do firearms transactions.

I contacted Merchants Services which took over for McMillian and was reported by NRA to be gun friendly. They were, but on top of charging about 2% per transaction they also have monthly ($10) and annual (forgot how much) fees. Non "card-present" transactions are even more.

They directed me to "Pistol Pay" which sounded like it might work. Transaction costs are pretty high, but they don't have monthly or annual fees. After registering I got the impression they are not updating their website and may be in trouble?

Do any of you smaller FFLs accept credit cards and have you found a cost effective gun friendly way to do it?

Have any of you done business with Pistol Pay? My inner voice is telling me "danger" but they were recommended by Merchants Services which was in turn recommended by NRA.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Hi, I'm also a home based ffl. I have been looking into CC processing as well.
There is a CC vendor that specializes in FFL sales I found through Gunbroker
I have not completed the application yet but, it does not seem difficult.
Hope this helps!
https://fastchargeonline.com/
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  #8  
Old 05-16-2017, 7:19 AM
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Have you looked at PayPal?
They have card readers (free) and money can be accessed via a Debit card for you to use.
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  #9  
Old 05-16-2017, 7:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38Special View Post
Have you looked at PayPal?
They have card readers (free) and money can be accessed via a Debit card for you to use.
Not gun friendly.


Pretty sad state that a legitimate business is treated like a back ally drug dealer.

For the record I try to never pay cash for things..so unless it's all transfers I wouldn't think it's wise to not take credit cards.
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2017, 7:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 38Special View Post
Have you looked at PayPal?
They have card readers (free) and money can be accessed via a Debit card for you to use.
Until they find out you used it for Firearms. They will lock your account and hold all funds for 9 months.
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  #11  
Old 05-16-2017, 8:27 AM
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I just started looking to switch to these guys: bankcardusa.com

You can try reaching out to: garik.mitchell@bankcardusa.com

Rates look competitive.
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Old 05-16-2017, 9:31 AM
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Screw the banks, if they're going to cooperate with operation choke point, I'm going to give them as little money as possible.
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Old 05-16-2017, 9:35 AM
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Originally Posted by acespawnshop View Post
Screw the banks, if they're going to cooperate with operation choke point, I'm going to give them as little money as possible.
That would be ideal, but I can only hide so much cash under my mattress..
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  #14  
Old 05-16-2017, 10:08 AM
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I have two reasons for wanting to be able to accept CC payments. The first is probably the main reason.

1. I'd like to start selling stuff on GB or AA. Stuff from my personal collection, and as a service to customers who don't want to do it themselves. I have no feedback yet so I'm worried people may not be willing to take the risk. If I took CCs they at least have that protection. Before I was a dealer I would gladly pay the 3% CC fee for the assurance that I could challenge the charge on a bad sale. Maybe I was naive, but that's my thinking. I think I'd even be willing to eat the CC fee when selling from my collection until I can build up some positive feedback.

2. Similarly, I have some F2F customers who I think would gladly pay a 3% markup for the convince of a CC transaction. I'd like to at least be able to offer that to them.

I have on occasion accepted PP "friends and family" cash transfers but I suspect I'm playing with fire there. I try to avoid those. There are other online money transfer services that I have also used. Not sure if gun friendly or not. But none of them offer the same convenience and protection a CC does.

It is amazing that we are probably one of the most highly regulated and policed industries in the country and yet we're treated like drug dealers. Actually, I think drug dealers are treated a little better then we are. Maybe its all that cash...

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll check them out.
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
That would be ideal, but I can only hide so much cash under my mattress..
Send some to me UG, I've got a California King at home and my AR-15 is the only thing under there......
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo1895 View Post
I have two reasons for wanting to be able to accept CC payments. The first is probably the main reason.

1. I'd like to start selling stuff on GB or AA. Stuff from my personal collection, and as a service to customers who don't want to do it themselves. I have no feedback yet so I'm worried people may not be willing to take the risk. If I took CCs they at least have that protection. Before I was a dealer I would gladly pay the 3% CC fee for the assurance that I could challenge the charge on a bad sale. Maybe I was naive, but that's my thinking. I think I'd even be willing to eat the CC fee when selling from my collection until I can build up some positive feedback.

2. Similarly, I have some F2F customers who I think would gladly pay a 3% markup for the convince of a CC transaction. I'd like to at least be able to offer that to them.

I have on occasion accepted PP "friends and family" cash transfers but I suspect I'm playing with fire there. I try to avoid those. There are other online money transfer services that I have also used. Not sure if gun friendly or not. But none of them offer the same convenience and protection a CC does.

It is amazing that we are probably one of the most highly regulated and policed industries in the country and yet we're treated like drug dealers. Actually, I think drug dealers are treated a little better then we are. Maybe its all that cash...

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll check them out.
It is absolutely customary to charge a CC fee when selling on GunBroker. Some don;t but they usually have higher prices.

If you have an FFL and verify it with GunBroker then you get the FFL badge. This goes further than feedback as it shows you are a licensee.

Careful with PayPal, I cannot even tell you how many accounts I have had. All of them locked now. Same with Facebook pay, Square etc. I stopped dealing with all that and just suck it up and pay the fees. On average it is about 3.5%.

Where this really hurts is transfers. Lets use Aces Pawn, they charge $25 for a transfer. Lets say a guy transfer in a SCAR

SCAR Value $3,000
Sales Tax $240
DROS $25
Transfer $25
Total charged on a card $290
3.5% = $10.15

They loose almost half their fee due to credit card fees. It just ruins the ability to offer the lowest price on items and take credit cards without fees.
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Old 05-16-2017, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baboosh View Post
Where this really hurts is transfers. Lets use Aces Pawn, they charge $25 for a transfer. Lets say a guy transfer in a SCAR

SCAR Value $3,000
Sales Tax $240
DROS $25
Transfer $25
Total charged on a card $290
3.5% = $10.15

They loose almost half their fee due to credit card fees. It just ruins the ability to offer the lowest price on items and take credit cards without fees.
And here we have the reasoning behind why we don't accept credit cards! Not to mention Baboosh told me once about how his CC dispute led to other tax related issues. Just not worth it. That's why we charge what we do to keep costs low for everyone.

NOTE: Way back when when I was still a noob and was taking CC's for IST payments, we transferred a Barrett with a bad A scope on it and nice pelican case, the works. Dudes invoice was almost 5K. After we got our CC payment processing tab we realized we lost money on that particular deal.
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Last edited by acespawnshop; 05-16-2017 at 4:31 PM..
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:09 PM
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We use Bank of America pay as you go merchant swiper. No mo fee only pay per transaction interchange+.40%. We add a 3% cc usage to all cc transactions customers are still happy to pay.


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Old 05-17-2017, 5:34 AM
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Originally Posted by XxWoodsHunterxX View Post
We use Bank of America pay as you go merchant swiper. No mo fee only pay per transaction interchange+.40%. We add a 3% cc usage to all cc transactions customers are still happy to pay.


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40¢?
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Old 05-17-2017, 8:06 AM
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40¢?
Yeah, Im wondering the same. Going to look into this.
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Old 05-17-2017, 8:19 AM
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Originally Posted by XxWoodsHunterxX View Post
We use Bank of America pay as you go merchant swiper. No mo fee only pay per transaction interchange+.40%. We add a 3% cc usage to all cc transactions customers are still happy to pay.


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I thought BoA was Anti-2A? They have nothing in their ToS about firearms? Also, do they offer an online component or just swipe/chip?
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Old 05-17-2017, 9:01 AM
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We use Bank of America pay as you go merchant swiper. No mo fee only pay per transaction interchange+.40%. We add a 3% cc usage to all cc transactions customers are still happy to pay.


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Bank of America? They denied us even opening a business account due to us being gun dealers.

Do they know you deal in firearms?

Why charge 3% if it only cost you half of a percent?
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:12 PM
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BofA is anti gun. We bank with them only because they're close and we get change regularly. We don't use their merchant services anymore and we minimally use our checking account with them. The only reason that account is open is because we need change. We've switched all our other accounts to a local community bank in our hometown. They're awesome. They know our names and who we are. In total I think we moved something like 18 accounts from BofA. I know Aces is the only account left open out of the family of shops that we deal with.
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Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer!
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Old 05-17-2017, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baboosh View Post
It is absolutely customary to charge a CC fee when selling on GunBroker. Some don;t but they usually have higher prices.

If you have an FFL and verify it with GunBroker then you get the FFL badge. This goes further than feedback as it shows you are a licensee.

Careful with PayPal, I cannot even tell you how many accounts I have had. All of them locked now. Same with Facebook pay, Square etc. I stopped dealing with all that and just suck it up and pay the fees. On average it is about 3.5%.

Where this really hurts is transfers. Lets use Aces Pawn, they charge $25 for a transfer. Lets say a guy transfer in a SCAR

SCAR Value $3,000
Sales Tax $240
DROS $25
Transfer $25
Total charged on a card $290
3.5% = $10.15

They loose almost half their fee due to credit card fees. It just ruins the ability to offer the lowest price on items and take credit cards without fees.
How did PayPal catch you many times? How do you open mew accounts they don't care after some time passes or just new bank and CC info but same name will get you a new PayPal acct?

I hate using PayPal for anything and try to avoid it.
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Old 05-18-2017, 4:10 AM
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How did PayPal catch you many times? How do you open mew accounts they don't care after some time passes or just new bank and CC info but same name will get you a new PayPal acct?



I hate using PayPal for anything and try to avoid it.


Someone will always put details in the memo.
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Old 05-18-2017, 6:02 AM
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they tac on .40% per transaction on top of interchange


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Old 05-18-2017, 6:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baboosh View Post
Bank of America? They denied us even opening a business account due to us being gun dealers.



Do they know you deal in firearms?



Why charge 3% if it only cost you half of a percent?

Yes they know we sell firearms. Wasn't an issue when I specifically stated what we do. We keep it a standard 3% because not all cards are the same some have higher rates



Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
I thought BoA was Anti-2A? They have nothing in their ToS about firearms? Also, do they offer an online component or just swipe/chip?

Their gateway will cost $20/mo. But they do have it. PAI currently will match so if all goes well we will be switching and all mo. Fees are going to be reduced to $5/mo. Same rates.




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Old 05-18-2017, 10:38 AM
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And, here's why I don't take credit cards:
I was in the hospital for a little over month about 2 years ago. When I got back into the shop and was going through mail I found a bill from the credit card company I was using billing me "$75.00" inactivity fee.
I dropped them like a hot rock and will not use another company. When they inquired about my leaving them they pointed out that that stipulation was in the fine print of the contract.
My customers have not had an issue with being unable to use their cards. At least nothing has been voiced to me...
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:34 AM
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After we explain why we don't take cards everyone understands. When you factor in Operation Choke Point, CC terminal fees and chargebacks they get it. I've thought about having one of those companies come in here and put in one of those ATM machines, the kind where they maintain it, stock it, and I don't have to deal with it. But, Stater Bros is in our shopping center and you can go get cash back there with the purchase of anything, get a $.25 pack of wrigleys and you're GTG.
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Interstate Transfers $25 plus $25 DROS and tax. ammo transfers $15 plus tax
Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer!
Or call 626-968-5900
Gun transfers 10am-5pm 7 days a week!
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  #30  
Old 11-21-2017, 1:02 PM
cleck cleck is offline
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Here’s a breakdown of firearms friendly credit card options with costs compared. Maybe it’ll help. https://rocketffl.com/gun-friendly-c...ocessing-ffls/
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  #31  
Old 11-21-2017, 1:06 PM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
That would be ideal, but I can only hide so much cash under my mattress..
Send the money to me, I will hide it for you so well that you will never find it again.
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  #32  
Old 11-21-2017, 1:11 PM
ef9boy88 ef9boy88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleck View Post
Here’s a breakdown of firearms friendly credit card options with costs compared. Maybe it’ll help. https://rocketffl.com/gun-friendly-c...ocessing-ffls/
I didn't really see a break down as much as I did an advertisement for a specific company, am I missing something? I don't sell fire arms, but do sell parts and don't like the idea of waiting to get screwed.
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  #33  
Old 11-21-2017, 2:51 PM
weaselfire weaselfire is offline
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Originally Posted by ef9boy88 View Post
I didn't really see a break down as much as I did an advertisement for a specific company, am I missing something? I don't sell fire arms, but do sell parts and don't like the idea of waiting to get screwed.
Not missing a thing. And it's an expensive option.

There are two options, Transnational Bank Card and PAI, now Clearant. Everyone uses the same clearing house anyway. Watch for fees and understand the business and what it will cost you.

Jeff

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  #34  
Old 11-21-2017, 3:07 PM
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ugimports ugimports is offline
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BankCard USA, Eureka Payments, Ware-Everpay are also options.
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  #35  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:17 AM
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Elite Armory Elite Armory is offline
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Try this guy, they are 2A friendly, we have used them for years and always took good care of us.

Steve - Payprotech
510-207-9709
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