Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 02-06-2018, 6:05 AM
Guns and guitars's Avatar
Guns and guitars Guns and guitars is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: On my way out of this state.
Posts: 1,383
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
Its not that its $80 better than the SWFA, its that it fits his needs better. My point is why should the OP spend $300 on a scope, that he is already unsure about the magnification, when for only $80 more he can get a scope that solves that issue. Any scope under $2500 is giving up something. The cheaper you go, the more you give up. At the OP's price point he has to give something(s) up, he has to decide on what is worth giving up.
.
In my experience he would be giving up quality. The swfa is limited on magnification. But its reliable, and REPEATABLE which is the basis of ALL long range shooting.
Doping scopes is the game.
I have seen nothing but problems with the Athlon Argos scopes. But thats me.

I do agree with you on the fact that searching around you will find something.
Hell last year I got a Sig Tango 6 on a one day sale for less than $500. Which is pretty amazing since its a $2500 scope.
When I lived in Phx I used to watch the back page/sporting goods. Man there were some amazing deals that just pop up and are gone by lunch.

I wont go into the bs internet talk of long range shooting which from the sounds of it we all know but I do have to remind myself occasionally that there are competitions that shoot 1000 yards with iron sights.
I sometimes get to wrapped up in the internet mentality that if it cost more, its better, if its a higher magnification, its better or a name.

Im not alone on this. Spend time in any long range shooting class, club or comp and perhaps the one and only thing we can agree on is that the SWFA is a tough repeatable scope thats worth its $300..
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-06-2018, 6:19 AM
Guns and guitars's Avatar
Guns and guitars Guns and guitars is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: On my way out of this state.
Posts: 1,383
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guns and guitars View Post
In my experience he would be giving up quality. The swfa is limited on magnification. But its reliable, and REPEATABLE which is the basis of ALL long range shooting.
Doping scopes is the game.
I have seen nothing but problems with the Athlon Argos scopes. But thats me.

I do agree with you on the fact that searching around you will find something.
Hell last year I got a Sig Tango 6 on a one day sale for less than $500. Which is pretty amazing since its a $2500 scope.
When I lived in Phx I used to watch the back page/sporting goods. Man there were some amazing deals that just pop up and are gone by lunch.

I wont go into the bs internet talk of long range shooting which from the sounds of it we all know but I do have to remind myself occasionally that there are competitions that shoot 1000 yards with iron sights.
I sometimes get to wrapped up in the internet mentality that if it cost more, its better, if its a higher magnification, its better or a name.

Im not alone on this. Spend time in any long range shooting class, club or comp and perhaps the one and only thing we can agree on is that the SWFA is a tough repeatable scope thats worth its $300..
I should probably clarify that you DO get what you pay for to an extent so I don't get flamed.

Currently I have 2 US optics, 2 Swarovski, 2 night force and a Sig tango scope for bolt guns. When you go over $2000 the game changes drastically. I prefer 1fp for precision long range shooting and 2nd for hunting.
The SWFA does not compare to these scopes but for sub $400 I have yet to see a scope that will beat the SS.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-06-2018, 7:54 AM
boyguan boyguan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 523
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
i shoot a 1-6 an my 223 ar at 100 yards and feel it could use more.

however i use the fixed 10X SWFA MOA X MOA on my 6.5 Grendel build and am very happy. i can see tight groups at the 100 targets and have walked it out to 600 yards on steel no problem. I built this rifle to be a 1000 yard gun and this scope will take me there all the way. once you get out past the 200 yard mark for me it more about hitting the plate which i'm only aiming at a 12-18" gong, and hit/miss ratio.

Your a little far from me but i would let you try mine out at a range with some distance to it. Maybe someone in your area would do the same.
I saw the other thread for sub 1000. But what would be the choice for sub 1000. I have been considering the vortex viper pst2
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-06-2018, 8:15 AM
ExtremeX's Avatar
ExtremeX ExtremeX is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,123
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyguan View Post
When I hear about the 16 or 20 I hear that the glass isn't as clear as the 10 or the 12.

Has anyone ever had to warranty a swfa? Do they cover only oringal owners?
It's the same glass, but as you increase magnification, it easier to see any imperfections.

In addition the exit pupil is reduced as magnification increases, which makes the overall image darker.

Its still good, but the more magnification you have, the better the glass and bigger the objective you need to make it look as good as the lower magnification levels.
__________________
ExtremeX
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-06-2018, 8:19 AM
ExtremeX's Avatar
ExtremeX ExtremeX is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,123
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyguan View Post
Next question.

Swfa 10 or 12 or a viper pst 2 6-24?

I know it's 4 times the price but is it any better besides just magnification?
Having owned both Fixed 10x and Gen 1 PST... and removing money from the conversation, I would take the Viper PST

Two different beasts tho... I very much appreciate the size/weight of the SWFA on smaller or lighter rifles. Also appreciate the value of the PST glass/features/magnification range/ larger objective.
__________________
ExtremeX

Last edited by ExtremeX; 02-06-2018 at 8:24 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:53 AM
boyguan boyguan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 523
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Having owned both Fixed 10x and Gen 1 PST... and removing money from the conversation, I would take the Viper PST

Two different beasts tho... I very much appreciate the size/weight of the SWFA on smaller or lighter rifles. Also appreciate the value of the PST glass/features/magnification range/ larger objective.
I値l be going to the range this weekend. I値l see if I spot anything cool I can get behind
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-06-2018, 12:19 PM
Kwikvette's Avatar
Kwikvette Kwikvette is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Monterey County
Posts: 3,523
iTrader: 47 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyguan View Post
I値l be going to the range this weekend. I値l see if I spot anything cool I can get behind
If you make it out to Metcalf, I'll let you get behind some Nightforce scopes, Bushnell, and whatever else I've got laying around.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-06-2018, 1:28 PM
boyguan boyguan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 523
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwikvette View Post
If you make it out to Metcalf, I'll let you get behind some Nightforce scopes, Bushnell, and whatever else I've got laying around.
Metcalf is no problem. I really want to try their 200 yard range. Something like they are open every last Sunday or something
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-06-2018, 2:08 PM
89LT1's Avatar
89LT1 89LT1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 390
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyguan View Post
I saw the other thread for sub 1000. But what would be the choice for sub 1000. I have been considering the vortex viper pst2
Honestly i haven't been behind any high end scopes I could buy one but then not afford any ammo with my gun budget. I have run my 1st Gen Primary Arms 1-6 scope out to 600 yards. It is a fun little plinker that wont break the bank and has the marks for bullet drop so you don't have to touch the turrets. That is how they can make a cheapo scope accurate, once you touch the turrets all bets are off.

Again i think it depends on what you are trying to do at that range. If your trying to get your holes as close together as possible then its not what it is for. If you are aiming for minute of man at 6 hundered then it is good.

The 10XSWFA is easier, but the rifle and the rounds are much more accurate than the 1-6 with Nato 5.56 rounds.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-06-2018, 3:51 PM
Ki6vsm Ki6vsm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,310
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I like the reticle on the SWFA SS 10x MOA-Quad scope. I think it'd be great for 1000 yds because the lines are very fine and it has that tiny dot in the center. I think they're almost too fine for some jobs, but 1000-yd prone shooting I will bet it'd be great.

One minor error in this diagram is that there are no dots inside the 10-MOA diamonds with the 10x MOA-Quad. I'm surprised they got it wrong here.

Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 02-06-2018, 5:31 PM
TheReluctantCraftstronaut's Avatar
TheReluctantCraftstronaut TheReluctantCraftstronaut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 240
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I thought I had decided on the Falcon M18 for a budget/entry-level long range scope, because I really want the lower powers for hunting and a bit more than x10 for 1000 yards. This thread has me nearly back to wanting the SWFA x10.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 02-06-2018, 5:35 PM
boyguan boyguan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 523
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReluctantCraftstronaut View Post
I thought I had decided on the Falcon M18 for a budget/entry-level long range scope, because I really want the lower powers for hunting and a bit more than x10 for 1000 yards. This thread has me nearly back to wanting the SWFA x10.
I知 not hunting so I don稚 need a variable.

From my take they say variable is better for hunting so you can zoom out in case it gets closer to you
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-06-2018, 9:29 PM
vpravada vpravada is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 202
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

you could can always sell it if you don't like it. looks like you can get at least half your money back.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 02-07-2018, 5:48 AM
89LT1's Avatar
89LT1 89LT1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 390
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ki6vsm View Post
I like the reticle on the SWFA SS 10x MOA-Quad scope. I think it'd be great for 1000 yds because the lines are very fine and it has that tiny dot in the center. I think they're almost too fine for some jobs, but 1000-yd prone shooting I will bet it'd be great.[/IMG]
I have the exact same on mine. It is fantastic.

very fine lines may make it hard to see around dusk but they are crisp. I really like it. Its almost like it appears when you look for it. If your are spinning caps and just using the center then that's all a really see if i wanted to throw in some kentucky windage when I start looking for the lines they come into focus.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 02-07-2018, 6:19 PM
michaelthepsycho's Avatar
michaelthepsycho michaelthepsycho is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 497
iTrader: 88 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyguan View Post
I知 not hunting so I don稚 need a variable.

From my take they say variable is better for hunting so you can zoom out in case it gets closer to you
Get a 36x Weaver for 1k then.

You won't notice the need for variable at 12x, because it's still easy to look around at 12x. but once you get into 30+, you might wish for a variable, because it gets a bit more difficult to pan around. YMMV
__________________
`
For SALE: Tactical Solutions Buck Mark Barrel - - - Vortex Razor II 3-18x50 MRAD

Referral Links (we both get money!): Active Junky (6% Cabela's / 4% Brownell's) ||| Lemoney (4% eBay / 10% Brownells / 9% Cabela's / 12% Walmart / 5% Best Buy) ||| Raise (gift cards) ||| SwagBucks (6% Cabela's / 2% Raise / 1% eBay)
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-12-2018, 11:15 AM
koshkin's Avatar
koshkin koshkin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 82
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I have used SWFA 10x and 12x scope out to 1000 yards and they worked just fine. Generally, I prefer the 10x since it is a little more forgiving, but both work and have very good adjustment accuracy which is key.

There are several FFP variables in this basic price range and, IMO, none of them are worth buying. They look good on paper, but for actual shooting, you need good fundamentals and that is where they all suffer.

In terms of ascending price level this is roughly how it goes based on my experience:

SWFA Classic 10x42 (and other SWFA fixed power scopes)
SWFA SS HD 3-9x42
SWFA SS Classic 3-15x42
Athlon Ares 4.5-27x50
Vortex PST Gen 2 3-15x44 or 5-25x50

There are several new scopes in the $700 range going after the same market, but they are new, so I do not have an opinion on them yet.

ILya
www.darklordofoptics.com
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 02-12-2018, 11:26 AM
boyguan boyguan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 523
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by koshkin View Post
I have used SWFA 10x and 12x scope out to 1000 yards and they worked just fine. Generally, I prefer the 10x since it is a little more forgiving, but both work and have very good adjustment accuracy which is key.

There are several FFP variables in this basic price range and, IMO, none of them are worth buying. They look good on paper, but for actual shooting, you need good fundamentals and that is where they all suffer.

In terms of ascending price level this is roughly how it goes based on my experience:

SWFA Classic 10x42 (and other SWFA fixed power scopes)
SWFA SS HD 3-9x42
SWFA SS Classic 3-15x42
Athlon Ares 4.5-27x50
Vortex PST Gen 2 3-15x44 or 5-25x50

There are several new scopes in the $700 range going after the same market, but they are new, so I do not have an opinion on them yet.

ILya
www.darklordofoptics.com
So in this list you say the pst is better than the swfa?

I looked through a pst 3-15 and it was very clear at max magnification
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 02-12-2018, 11:45 AM
koshkin's Avatar
koshkin koshkin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 82
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Yes and no

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyguan View Post
So in this list you say the pst is better than the swfa?

I looked through a pst 3-15 and it was very clear at max magnification
I sorted them by price. Of the scopes in this list, SWFA has by far the longest track record and that is also important.

Optically, SWFA Classic is somewhere between PST Gen 1 and PST Gen 2, closer to Gen 2.

PST Gen 2 scopes are a lot more full featured with zero stop and illumination, so you get a lot for your money.

Generally, every scope line has differences between models. For example with PST Gen 1, the little 2.5-10x32 was clearly the best of the line-up. With PST Gen 2, it seems to be the 3-15x42.

With Burris XTR II, I really like the 1-8x24 and 2-10x42 models.

With SWFA scopes, there are fewer models, so it is not easy to compare. For general purpose use, I really like the 3-9x42 which easily doubles as a hunting/DMR scope. For more of a dedicated range use, the 3-15x42 FFP is a really nice option since side-focus comes in helpful.

PST Gen 2 3-15x44 (I am wrapping up with my test of it) seems a touch better optically than the SWFA, but it is more expensive and you get more features.

In the end, you kinda have to decide how much you are willing to spend and work off of that.

ILya
www.darklordofoptics.com
fb.me/darklordofoptics
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 02-12-2018, 4:12 PM
Ki6vsm Ki6vsm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,310
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by koshkin View Post
For more of a dedicated range use, the 3-15x42 FFP is a really nice option since side-focus comes in helpful.
I sure wish someone would make a "switchview" type throw-lever for the 10x rear-focus SS scopes. I bought one because it was $100 less expensive than the side focus and I was also hoping that it'd be simpler and therefore optically clearer than the side-focus version. But dang that rear focus knob is kinda hard to deal with while looking through the scope! These fixed power SS scopes cry out for a nice throw-lever. I can't be the first person to say that.

I put on one of those bulky plastic cat-tail things on the ring, and while it is a big improvement for fine-focusing, the cat-tail sure makes the scope a bit clunkier.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:36 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.