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Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums.

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  #1  
Old 09-30-2017, 2:16 PM
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Default Smith & Wesson J-frame versus K-frame for recoil

Hi, Ladies,
I've used a Model 60 as my CCW until recently. I like it, but the recoil really bites. My hands aren't the strongest, and a little arthritis doesn't help my grip strength.

I've shot the Model 15, with a 4-inch barrel, K frame, and enjoyed it. I'm wondering whether getting a Model 10, with a 2-inch barrel, would have a slightly better recoil. I know it's heaver, but I'm willing to carry the extra weight if it helps a tad with the recoil. I only shoot .38 ammo, not interested in .357 magnum rounds.

I know the standard answer is "shoot both guns", but it's hard to find a Model 10 2-inch to shoot. So I'm asking for the second best response, which is from someone who is familiar with both guns and their characteristics.

Looking forward to your thoughts,
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2017, 4:05 PM
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I have a model 19 S&W snubbie which is a k-frame.
I also have the model 60 snubbie, too.
the 19 does weigh more but i'm not sure that recoil is that much less.

have you thought of a model 66 with a 3 inch barrel....I have one of those as well and it is a joy to shoot.
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  #3  
Old 09-30-2017, 7:07 PM
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The recoil on my 60 was uncomfortable & was doing a good job of teaching me to flinch. I ended up selling it. These days I much prefer a 686+ with 2 1/2" barrel, but it's a bit heavy for on-body everyday carry. I don't have experience with the 10 that you were asking about, but as suggested above, the 66 with a 3" barrel might be a worth looking at. I'm a long time Smith fan, but Ruger's SP101 is just a bit heavier than the 60 and has less felt recoil. Hopefully, someone with a 10 will come along shortly with more info.
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Old 09-30-2017, 7:20 PM
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I'd think about the situation you would be actually using the gun for its purpose. You wouldn't notice any recoil.
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Old 09-30-2017, 7:42 PM
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I had a small Taurus with scandium cylinder and titanium frame (maybe vise versa). Small and very light but ported. Not fun to shoot a lot but I agree with above, in the situation it's meant for you won't notice.

I love the 642 but have no more room on my permit.

Red
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  #6  
Old 09-30-2017, 8:11 PM
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Another option is to use wadcutter loadings.

This forum post mainly deals with LEO backup guns/loads, but does bring up the advantages of wadcutters ( esp. for short barreled revolvers that JHPs may be marginal performers in )

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....0-ACP-vs-38-Sp

-- Michael
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  #7  
Old 09-30-2017, 8:15 PM
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I agree that in the actual situation of using the weapon, recoil is not the issue. Applying good training principles and saving one's life are a whole lot more important at that moment.

However, like all of us, I need more practice time on the range. And, I'm finding that I'm not as eager to shoot the Model 60 as much as I should be to better my skills. Besides, who doesn't want to have a new toy to play with!

While I agree that the 3" guns probably have less recoil, they're also much harder to conceal.

So, I'm looking for the best possible combination of the concealability of the 2" barrel and a little less recoil than the Model 60. While very fond of S&W guns, I would consider another brand of revolver if it proved to be the best solution.

Thanks for your input.
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2017, 9:05 PM
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Whatever you end up with, try different grips until you find what fits your hand best.
Small stocks help keep the size down but may not be comfortable to shoot.

Weight is the biggest reducer of recoil.
The 4" barrel steel K frame Smith you liked is 34 ounces.
A 2" barrel K frame is 30 ounces.
A 5" barrel steel Mod 60 J frame is 30 ounces.
Ruger SP101 is 2" 25 ounces, 3" 27 ounces, 4" 30 ounces
Mod 60 2" 22 ounces, 3" 24 ounces.
All weights can be up or down an ounce depending on grips, etc.

Once you are in the J frame / SP101 frame size and weight, unless it is a .22LR version, these are not usually fun guns to shoot a lot especially with stronger loads.
"Carried a lot, shot a little" as the saying goes.
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  #9  
Old 10-01-2017, 7:10 AM
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I tried the sp101 ruger before purchasing the model 60 S&W.
I found it is slightly larger than the j-frame but not as large as a k-frame.
it seemed too big for my hand and harder to handle.

now after lots more practice and playing around with other pistols I know I could have handled that sp101 had I changed the grips.

I also second wadcutters in the model 60 for practice. practice is what you're wanting it seems and you could then load with .38 for SD. as noted by others, if you end up in a SD situation you won't notice the recoil difference but you will have the practice/experience you desire.

and if you're really wanting another pistol, rent the sp101 ruger and try it out with wadcutters.

I will also note that when I bought my model 60 a friend bought the sp101. he said the sp101 was rough inside so he took it apart to smooth out some of the innards. he replaced the grips as well.....
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Just use it for an excuse to keep buying "her" guns till you find the right one...good way to check off your wanted to buy list with the idea of finding her the one she wants of course :D
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  #10  
Old 10-01-2017, 8:57 AM
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Tyler T Grips have helped me enjoy my Model 49 a lot more than the originals, while keeping the profile slim.
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Old 10-01-2017, 10:42 AM
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I agree the recoil won't be as noticeable in an emergency situation, but it may impact the accuracy and timing of follow up shots. Since its intended as a carry gun, the practice needed to obtain a certain level of proficiency with it will be more difficult if the recoil is painful. With revolvers, its a difficult balancing act - small enough to conceal, but large enough for manageable recoil.
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2017, 11:26 AM
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I have a J-frame Model 60 snubby and several K-frame revolvers. What I don't like about the J-frame is the double-action trigger pull compared to a K-frame. The K-frame double-action pull is much smoother and lighter. The double-action trigger pull on my Model 60 was so stiff and rough it was actually painful with the grooved trigger. I replaced the trigger with a smooth trigger, replaced the rebound spring with a lighter spring, and polished the internals. It is much better now, but still not as nice as a K-frame. And it still holds one less round.

As mentioned earlier, grips are important. I equip all of my carry and home defense guns with lasers. I have rubber Crimson Trace laser grips on my Model 60 and they help a lot.




One of my favorite small revolvers is the out-of-production Colt Detective Special.




It is just slightly larger than a S&W J-frame and smaller than a K-frame, but it holds 6 rounds and it has a nicer double-action trigger than a J-frame.



Many of them are at least 50 years old so those are roster-exempt. Mine is a third issue one with the shrouded ejector rod and ramped front sight that was made after 1972 and isn't C&R yet. Pre-1973 models have an unshrouded ejector rod and a different front sight. Pre-1966 models have a longer grip frame.

(web picture)
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  #13  
Old 10-01-2017, 9:54 PM
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For many years I pocket carry S&W 340 scandium with pachmayr grips and have no complain. Proper gun grips that best fit your hand is the key!
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  #14  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:29 PM
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Lots of good thoughts here, for which I thank you. And beautiful pics as well.

I totally agree with the idea of good grips. Pachmayr is my friend!

So, let me re-frame the question: Given the same set of Pachmayer grips, would I feel a noticeable decrease in recoil when shooting the K-frame 2" snubbie when compared to the J-frame 2" snubbie?

And, in addition, does anyone in the local Santa Barbara-Ventura-Western Los Angeles County have a K-frame snubbie that they would be willing for me to try? PM if you do -- I'd be happy to meet you at your local range and get the real facts for myself.
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:48 PM
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How about an N-frame snubby? Reduced recoil and 8 shots whoo!

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File Type: jpg 170133_01_lg_0.jpg (21.8 KB, 104 views)
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  #16  
Old 10-05-2017, 2:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberpug View Post
So, let me re-frame the question: Given the same set of Pachmayer grips, would I feel a noticeable decrease in recoil when shooting the K-frame 2" snubbie when compared to the J-frame 2" snubbie?
Yes.
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2017, 5:02 PM
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Short and sweet, ojisan!
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2017, 5:46 PM
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given the reframing of the question: I believe you will notice a difference.
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"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt
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Just use it for an excuse to keep buying "her" guns till you find the right one...good way to check off your wanted to buy list with the idea of finding her the one she wants of course :D
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:45 AM
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Good! Now, all I have to do is find one!

Thank all of you for your input.
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2017, 12:38 PM
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If recoil is a problem consider switching ammo. Hornady Critical Defense Lite is designed for reduced recoil in short barrel self-defense revolvers.



https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...ding-box-of-25

Reviews:

Quote:
  • Girlfriend loved this round. It is very close in recoil to a standard wadcutter target load. Don't know about the expansion or ballistics, but the fact that she is not afraid to pull the trigger and can accurately hit a target with this round is enough. Friends wife even ordered a few boxes after seeing the difference. On the plus side the purchase supports breast cancer awareness also as shown on the box.
  • Great load in my J frame S&W. Noticeably reduced recoil from a full load, and hence better control and recovery to point of aim. I tested the 110 gr. and the 90 gr. loads. There was a slightly noticeable difference in recoil between the 110 and the 90, so I suggest testing both to see which is best for one's situation. Hopefully one will never have to use them in a PD situation, but I am confident either load will get the job done.
  • Got this for my wife. It is noticeably softer than normal .38s. She doesn't 'like' to shoot but she does occasionally go to the range with me and our grand kids to keep her skills up. She confidently carries her Airlite with a laser and Hornady Critical Defense Lite.
  • The 90 grain lite is perfect for my wife's personnel carry 38. She enjoy's shooting it now and stay's more proficient.
  • My wife and I use these 90 grain bullets in our Smith and Wesson model 637 air weight 38 special and they are much more manageable and less painful then the 158 grain load. we were able to keep all of our rounds within a five to six inch circle at 15 feet and point of impact is just about point of aim at this distance. This round is well suited for these tiny pistols and for those who need less recoil.
  • My wife loves this stuff. Have shot it both inside and out. Less noise and recoil from what she normally shoots.
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Revolvers are not pistols

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pistol noun pis·tol \ˈpi-stəl\

1: a handgun whose chamber is integral with the barrel
I'm happy to help people who have specific questions, but I ignore threads that begin with the command "school me".

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