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  #1  
Old 10-14-2018, 9:15 AM
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Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is offline
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Default USP Expert Trigger Issues

Hi all,

I finally got around to breaking in my BNIB USP Expert .45, although I have owned it for a year or so. About two magazines of single action only shooting went perfectly. When I attempted the first double action round, I got a "click."

I waited shortly to make sure it wasn't a hangfire. The ammo was all brass cased new ammo. Initially it was the ""Perfecta" brand, but the same issue also occured with Federal and Speer. Every double action round failed to fire, while every single action round functioned fine. Both pulls are smooth.

In each case, there was no discernible mark on the primer, so I believe it is safe to rule out light hits or bad ammo / primers. I don't think the hammer was making any contact with the primer at all.

A secondary issue was the realization that that the pistol cannot be put on "safe" while the hammer is down. I have an older USP .45 and that pistol can be put on safe with the hammer down, and has never had any of the above issues.

The only modification that has been made to the USP Expert was the swapping of the black target sights for Meprolight night sights, which wouldn't have anything to do with this issue.

If I am missing something obvious, please let me know! Since we all know that "This thread is worthless without pics" I can post pictures of anything specific that may be useful in resolving the problem.

Thanks,
BR
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2018, 9:48 AM
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Interesting, I've got one of these in jail right now.

Has it always had this problem or is this new?

How many rounds through the gun?

Have you cleaned it?
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
A secondary issue was the realization that that the pistol cannot be put on "safe" while the hammer is down. I have an older USP .45 and that pistol can be put on safe with the hammer down, and has never had any of the above issues.
Interesting. I went to check my Elite, which I can only guess their construction being the same, and mine goes into safe with hammer down or cocked. I don't know when it was made if that matters, but I bought it new last year in November/December.

...now that I think about it, maybe the problem is linked somehow? Maybe a linkage internally is activated already with the hammer down, which is why you can't put the safety on? It decocks perfectly fine, right?
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  #4  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:14 AM
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Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is offline
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Thanks for the replies. This was the first range visit and it was bought new. The pistol was disassembled and lubricated prior to shooting. I am familiar with the USP platform, and I concur that the DA and safety problems may be somehow related.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:31 AM
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That's a tough one. I just went through my USP armorer's manual and can't see anything that is obvious that would cause those issues. Is the detent plate seated properly? That's the only thing I can think of that could cause both issues.
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:38 AM
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Default USP Expert Trigger Issues

Bobby, that definitely isnít right. Your gun should fire in DA mode, and you should be able to engage the safety with the hammer down. I just went out and stripped my USP Elite .45 which works correctly and took a few pictures for you to compare to yours.
The first 3 shots are of the detent plate in the 3 positions. Safe, fire, and decock. I have some other pics Iíll post in a separate post.




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Old 10-14-2018, 10:45 AM
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Next two pictures are of part #25 ďcatchĒ and the hammer. When the gun is decocked, the catch stays up and stops the hammer from going all the way forward and hitting the fp. When the trigger is pulled in da or sa mode, the catch is pulled down and enters the cutout in the hammer.

With your slide off, pull your trigger in both modes while holding the hammer so it doesnít slam into the frame and see if this is working correctly.



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  #8  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:50 AM
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Lastly are two pics of the hammer position on an assembled gun.
First pic is hammer position when the gun has been fired in da or sa mode, all the way forward. Second pic is when gun has been decocked and hammer is resting on the catch.

I donít have an answer for your troubles, but maybe these can help you troubleshoot. HK will most assuredly take care of you. Call them in the morning. Youíll probably have it back next week.





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  #9  
Old 10-14-2018, 12:26 PM
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Thanks Nitro for the photos, very much appreciated. If it isn't something easy to do, I will send it in. I am about as far from being a gunsmith as humanly possible.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
Thanks Nitro for the photos, very much appreciated. If it isn't something easy to do, I will send it in. I am about as far from being a gunsmith as humanly possible.


My pleasure. Yea i wouldnít try a home fix but thought it may be interesting to try and self diagnose just for education. Very curious to hear the verdict for my own education. Despite the always funny ďbecause you suck and we hate youĒ meme, HK CS is top notch these days. Call and ask for gunsmith. Explain issue. They will email you a shipping label, fix it, and have it back to you very quickly. Best of luck and have a great day.


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  #11  
Old 10-14-2018, 1:46 PM
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One other thing to check. Part 25a ďcontrol latchĒ (picture 1) is what disengages the firing pin safety in the slide (picture 2). With the slide off ensure that this lever raises when you you pull the trigger. Itís working on yours in sa mode, so check it in da mode. Again hold the hammer to prevent it from slamming into the frame, pull the trigger and watch to see that the leg rises up. If thereís somehow an issue there, the hammer could be falling on a locked firing pin in da mode. Ok thatís all I got.




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  #12  
Old 10-25-2018, 8:22 PM
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I finally got around to calling HK customer service today. Not an ideal experience:

First call holding time: 13+ minutes. A person finally picks up, mumbles something I could not understand, and hangs up on me.

Second call holding time was only about 2 minutes: A very curt gentleman with a southern drawl picks up. I briefly explained the issue and asked for a return authorization.

He runs the serial number and says "That pistol was sold back in in February, 2017"

Yes, it was. To me.

With a disbelieving tone: "You have had the pistol since then and this was the first time it has been shot?"

Yes. Feel free to examine the pistol to verify it is devoid of any sign of wear.

Hmm. It sounds like the trigger bar is bent. That happens when someone forces the key into the lock and forces it open or closed (I am paraphrasing here, but the trigger bar and safety "key" were what he was referring to.)

O.K. So can I send it in?

"Yes...Send it to ........."

No return label was offered, thus I am expected to eat the postage, presumably. I will probably use the "Ship my gun" service. Otherwise I have a fabulous looking $1000 paperweight sitting in my safe.

I suppose I could throw it at a bad guy to buy enough time to grab something that works. So, there's that.
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Old 10-25-2018, 8:55 PM
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Wow, terrible service. Cut your losses and go with Glock. 👍
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Old 10-25-2018, 10:56 PM
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WOW, this is a really scaring, I just Dros the HK USP Elite yesterday, one of the reason I bought the USP Elite is "Life time warranty"
https://hk-usa.com/warranty/

And difference from you, I always shoot couple hundred rds on all of my new guns to break-in during the first year.

Quote:
Hmm. It sounds like the trigger bar is bent. That happens when someone forces the key into the lock and forces it open or closed (I am paraphrasing here, but the trigger bar and safety "key" were what he was referring to.)
For sure he was fishing, he just find a stupid reason and blame it on you. He is a BAD rep.

Last edited by newbie1234; 10-25-2018 at 11:03 PM..
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  #15  
Old 10-26-2018, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 559BearDown View Post
Wow, terrible service. Cut your losses and go with Glock. 👍
I am holding out for a successful resolution of the HK, but Glocks are near and dear too. There probably isn't anything the Expert can do that can't be accomplished with the G41.
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Old 10-26-2018, 2:06 PM
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Iíve got no experience with glocks so I canít speak for them.

Springfield sent me a return label while I was still on the phone with them and fixed my TRP and sent it back to me in about a week and a half.
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Old 10-26-2018, 2:19 PM
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My opinion is that an HK Expert factory trigger is superior to any Glock trigger I have ever used, including aftermarket.
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Old 10-26-2018, 2:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
I finally got around to calling HK customer service today. Not an ideal experience:

First call holding time: 13+ minutes. A person finally picks up, mumbles something I could not understand, and hangs up on me.

Second call holding time was only about 2 minutes: A very curt gentleman with a southern drawl picks up. I briefly explained the issue and asked for a return authorization.

He runs the serial number and says "That pistol was sold back in in February, 2017"

Yes, it was. To me.

With a disbelieving tone: "You have had the pistol since then and this was the first time it has been shot?"

Yes. Feel free to examine the pistol to verify it is devoid of any sign of wear.

Hmm. It sounds like the trigger bar is bent. That happens when someone forces the key into the lock and forces it open or closed (I am paraphrasing here, but the trigger bar and safety "key" were what he was referring to.)

O.K. So can I send it in?

"Yes...Send it to ........."

No return label was offered, thus I am expected to eat the postage, presumably. I will probably use the "Ship my gun" service. Otherwise I have a fabulous looking $1000 paperweight sitting in my safe.

I suppose I could throw it at a bad guy to buy enough time to grab something that works. So, there's that.

Not cool. When you do ship, can you give us an idea of the price to HK?
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Old 10-26-2018, 3:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
I am holding out for a successful resolution of the HK, but Glocks are near and dear too. There probably isn't anything the Expert can do that can't be accomplished with the G41.

Nice. What do you think of that x300?

Im looking for something that will look good on the expert, and hold up to range trips.
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Old 10-26-2018, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milsurp1 View Post
My opinion is that an HK Expert factory trigger is superior to any Glock trigger I have ever used, including aftermarket.
Good to hear, does it "break in" over time?

I've got some snap caps, wondering if that will make a difference.
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Old 10-30-2018, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DAVO View Post
Nice. What do you think of that x300?

Im looking for something that will look good on the expert, and hold up to range trips.
I have a lot more experience with the Streamlight TLR-1 on carry guns. The X300U is quite good, but a bit spendier. It is too long on some pistols if you want to avoid scorching the top of it.

The updated version with the thumbscrew is a nice improvement. The older version was very difficult to lock in place and nearly impossible to remove without great effort.

I dislike the trapdoor on the bottom that is secured by the little cotter key. I havenít seen it come open with or without the key in place but it seems to be a pointless design feature.

The TLR-1can accumulate rust in wet environments in the hidden crevices that canít be seen while mounted. I learned that when I removed it to change batteries after being out in a good bit of rain for a month or so.
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Old 10-31-2018, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
I have a lot more experience with the Streamlight TLR-1 on carry guns. The X300U is quite good, but a bit spendier. It is too long on some pistols if you want to avoid scorching the top of it.

The updated version with the thumbscrew is a nice improvement. The older version was very difficult to lock in place and nearly impossible to remove without great effort.

I dislike the trapdoor on the bottom that is secured by the little cotter key. I havenít seen it come open with or without the key in place but it seems to be a pointless design feature.

The TLR-1can accumulate rust in wet environments in the hidden crevices that canít be seen while mounted. I learned that when I removed it to change batteries after being out in a good bit of rain for a month or so.
Good to know, I have a TLR-4 green laser coming for the HK expert, strictly for home defense for now.

Im noticing how big the trigger guard is, hoping this will be a workable solution.

Regarding your expert, is your hammer spring stock?

I ran 220 rounds through mine to break it in sunday and so far its been working 100%.
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