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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 12-07-2017, 6:16 PM
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Default Meds that you pitch that actually go bad around expiry-date?

Since the "US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), ultimately covered more than 100 drugs, prescription and over-the-counter. The results showed that about 90% of them were safe and effective as far as 15 years past their original expiration date."

Just curious what actually goes bad around expiry?
I don't think I have seen much on that.

I know that wet antibiotics, especially those that need refrigeration go bad quickly, but what else does, or can be toxic post expiry?

Expecting thread to stay OT regarding actually expiring meds, but Calguns is a wild hog ride...
Links are appreciated.
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Old 12-07-2017, 6:18 PM
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I don't know of any that actually go bad
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Old 12-07-2017, 6:20 PM
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Here is what I've got, so far:
"According to The Medical Letter (2015) the only report of human toxicity that may have been caused by chemical or physical degradation of a pharmaceutical product is renal tubular damage that was associated with use of degraded tetracycline (GW Frimpter et al, JAMA 1963; 184:111). Since then, tetracycline products have been changed to eliminate the problem [2]. The lack of other reports of toxicity from expired medication is reassuring, however expired medication toxicity is not a well-researched field."
http://www.emedexpert.com/tips/expired-meds.shtml
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Last edited by the86d; 12-07-2017 at 6:29 PM..
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:15 PM
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There are so many meds out there I’m sure a few go toxic but I wouldn’t worry about it in SHTF.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:47 PM
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Some links in this article

Most Drugs Are Still Safe To Use Years After Their Expiration Date : Shots - Health News : NPR
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...myth-than-fact
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Old 12-08-2017, 5:34 AM
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The only things that we pitch after expiration date are eye drops for the kids. Otherwise, I store all of our expired meds into a small toolbox I have for just that purpose, grouped as pain meds, anti biotics, and misc.
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Old 12-08-2017, 5:38 AM
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Insulin. Yes, it's "wet," but should be noted because it has such a short shelf life comparatively.
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Old 12-08-2017, 9:39 AM
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all meds that needs refrigeration and tetracycline needs to be trashed. I was a manager at a pet shop for 7 years and i use to interact with the chemist that mixes the drugs for dynapet. That is what she told me. I have fish meds that are over 20 years old that still treats the fish I have when they are sick so i know they still work. The rest are ok.
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Old 12-08-2017, 9:59 AM
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Lidocaine. It seems to really quit the month after the printed date.

Probably EpiPens too, but I've never checked.
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by castgold View Post
Lidocaine. It seems to really quit the month after the printed date.

Probably EpiPens too, but I've never checked.
Has anyone had experience with liquids such as sunburn aloe goop with lidocaine like this too, or only the injectables?
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Has anyone had experience with liquids such as sunburn aloe goop with lidocaine like this too, or only the injectables?
Probably a shorter shelf life because:
1. it isn't sealed in an enclosed glass cartridge,
2. the lidocaine is a molecule with functional groups that can dissociate readily, affecting it's ligand specificity, and
3. topical lidocaine has limited effectiveness on skin to begin with because of the thick keratin layer that it has to go through to get any anesthesia

Benzocaine spray might work a little better because it's a slightly smaller molecule.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Has anyone had experience with liquids such as sunburn aloe goop with lidocaine like this too, or only the injectables?
I have a bottle of Mercurochrome that I bought 25+ years ago. It was getting low so I went to the drug store to get another bottle. The pharmacist shook her head and said it had been banned by the FDA in 1998. Well, that sucks, but the stuff still in the bottle is fine and works like it did when it was new.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:33 AM
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Maybe excedrin or other aspirin containing products? I’m getting mixed answers, but it seems like aspirin degrades over time into acetic acid (hence the vinegar smell when it gets old) and salycilic acid. While probably not life threatening if you take expired/degraded aspirin, it may not be as effective, and may give you heartburn. I have heard it’s fine to take, but you may want to eat some Tums??

My husband gets infrequent migraines so I just buy a couple of the smallest bottles. It seems like once you open the bottle, the degradation begins, regardless of the expiration date. Kind of like lunch meats or dairy; “best when used within 5 days of opening.”
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:34 AM
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I'm with seal20.
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Old 12-09-2017, 2:56 PM
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Here's a read by an MD regarding ABX.
http://thesurvivaldoctor.com/2015/08...d-antibiotics/
I have talked to a few medical pros over the years and there are the official medical dogmatic answers ie; " thou shalt toss expired meds when the exp date arrives", so let it be written, so let it be done!
Then there's the "psst! You know what you can do... " by the same people.
The article linkage above may help with some medical data mining.
*Big pharma depends on return customers and frequent stock turnover (expiration dates). >$$$$$$$
They really don't want you well. They want you coming back for more.

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Old 12-10-2017, 4:22 PM
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Common OTC meds are so cheap to teplace that I do so by expirTion date, then use those around house if needed until gone or more than year out of date.
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Old 12-11-2017, 1:47 PM
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We have a LARGE strategic stockpile of antibiotics, atropine and other supplies for SHTF scenarios, sponsored by homeland security.
Every couple of years, a homeland security MD, armed security, and a truck driver come and swap them out. I started a conversation with the MD and said something to the effect of "How much is the government throwing away today?" He laughed and responded, "nothing."

Come to find out, as long as they can document their "average" storage temperature, they can double their shelf life, they just change the sticker. Every additional years they will take a small sample of one of the products. He stated it will always test over 98% purity of the primary compound. Then they will print another new sticker, and BAM back out to storage.

Storage is everything, temperature, and away from sunlight. These are both liquid and pill form. The liquid is stored is glass, and the pills in blister packs.

Dont know about stuff in plastic containers, but on a personal note, I usually discard the plastic stuff about six months after expiration and have moved toward bubble pack stuff. The kids meds was hard, they are usually in plastic liquid bottles.
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Old 12-11-2017, 1:58 PM
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The last place to keep meds is your medicine cabinet due to humidity after a shower, and theft. Someplace dark and dry. They'll be good for 5 or even 10 years, no problem.

Don't store your antibiotics, take them ALL as prescribed!
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Old 12-11-2017, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorn5150 View Post
I have a bottle of Mercurochrome that I bought 25+ years ago. It was getting low so I went to the drug store to get another bottle. The pharmacist shook her head and said it had been banned by the FDA in 1998. Well, that sucks, but the stuff still in the bottle is fine and works like it did when it was new.
Wow I remember that stuff.

Anything that has been opened, gets thrown away at exp. I keep any meds 3 to 5 years unless some sort of signs of leakage.
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Old 12-11-2017, 4:51 PM
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I want to try a Quaalude, sadly I missed that one by 20 years. Everybody (over 50) that I've asked said there was nothing else like it.
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Old 12-12-2017, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamalpias View Post
all meds that needs refrigeration and tetracycline needs to be trashed. I was a manager at a pet shop for 7 years and i use to interact with the chemist that mixes the drugs for dynapet. That is what she told me. I have fish meds that are over 20 years old that still treats the fish I have when they are sick so i know they still work. The rest are ok.
I use LA200 (oxytetracycline)on my cattle and pigs for bacterial infections. It has a an expiration out about 3 years stored at room temp. Ive herd of people using it on animals well out side of that, but that doesn't mean it still works.

Last edited by luckylogger6; 12-12-2017 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 12-12-2017, 1:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Here is what I've got, so far:
"According to The Medical Letter (2015) the only report of human toxicity that may have been caused by chemical or physical degradation of a pharmaceutical product is renal tubular damage that was associated with use of degraded tetracycline (GW Frimpter et al, JAMA 1963; 184:111). Since then, tetracycline products have been changed to eliminate the problem [2]. The lack of other reports of toxicity from expired medication is reassuring, however expired medication toxicity is not a well-researched field."
http://www.emedexpert.com/tips/expired-meds.shtml
I remember the tetracycline - if memory serves, it was actually a binder used in the tablets that degraded over time, and not the antibiotic itself. So this quote jibes with my recollection of researching it years ago.
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Old 12-12-2017, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Since the "US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), ultimately covered more than 100 drugs, prescription and over-the-counter. The results showed that about 90% of them were safe and effective as far as 15 years past their original expiration date."

Just curious what actually goes bad around expiry?
I don't think I have seen much on that.

I know that wet antibiotics, especially those that need refrigeration go bad quickly, but what else does, or can be toxic post expiry?

Expecting thread to stay OT regarding actually expiring meds, but Calguns is a wild hog ride...
Links are appreciated.

If you are talking about dry tablets or dry capsules, the shelf life is virtually indefinite if they are kept in a cool dark place.

Anything involving liquid should be used or discarded by the expiration date. Including sealed bottled meds and gel-caps that have a liquid center.
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Old 12-18-2017, 3:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
If you are talking about dry tablets or dry capsules, the shelf life is virtually indefinite if they are kept in a cool dark place.

Anything involving liquid should be used or discarded by the expiration date. Including sealed bottled meds and gel-caps that have a liquid center.
I hadn't thought of liquid-filled being an issue, but since they are at about +957% x the price of dry, Kirkland liquids being 180ea@$14.95 (8.3 cents/each) vs Kirkland dry IBU-200 1000ea@$8.68 (.868 cents/each), which are the 2 cheapest bulk I could find on eBay, I never much considered even buying the liquid-filled to begin with.
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...Either that or use the holy hand grenade of Antioch.
"That's what governments are for - get in a man's way." - Captain Malcolm 'Mal' Reynolds
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Old 12-18-2017, 4:12 AM
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Like food labels. Modern drugs if stored away from sunlight and moisture last well beyond exp dates.
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