Scouting the Sierras (D3-5)

[SW011]

Hi all! I'm a new hunter and just started last season (got 1 public pig!), and went up to D3-5 this past weekend to do some scouting up high away from the roads, found lots of does beds and sign (tracks not so much, it's pretty dusty!), spotted a few forkies. Been watching/reading a lot of Dan Infalt and Bill Lentz for homework, and they talk a lot about the importance of finding those bedding areas and sign.

For you experienced D3-5 hunters out there, I was wondering if our CA blacktail/mulies continue to use those beds into Sept/Oct, or do they stop using them the moment they hear all the noise from the opener?

I guess my question really is, is it worth it pursuing the beds/sign in the areas that I've scouted in the spring/summer, or do I just do what most folks do and hike/drive around until I see something?

Thanks in advance

[Jimmy's]

Get a good spotting scope and sit and watch the canyons,ravenes,saddles and tree lines. Make sure you actually look into the woods not just up to them.

[Bull Elk]

You are likely scouting a bit early. What the deer do now and were they are located will change in the fall. But, if you're simply wanting to look around for possible hunting and camping locations, its a good time to be up in the hills. Bring a fishing pole with you.

[SW011]

Originally Posted by Bull Elk

You are likely scouting a bit early. What the deer do now and were they are located will change in the fall. But, if you're simply wanting to look around for possible hunting and camping locations, its a good time to be up in the hills. Bring a fishing pole with you.

Yeah, I was kicking myself for not bring my rod up with me last weekend! Had all the lakes to myself!

Thanks for that tip. I've been reading through years of CG archives, and am pretty determined not to fall into the 90% that just drives around road hunting and then complaining the zone doesn't hold deer. At the same time, I'm am not familiar enough with deer in the Sierras to know if I should try to pattern a certain herd/buck, or just employ general tactics (scouting online, looking for sign, etc.) and hope I run into a buck by chance? I want to get to a point where I can walk an edge/draw and be able to say, "There's a buck here," but is that possible at all in a high-pressure public area like D3-5?

[JackEllis]

I spent a day and a half attempting to hunt up there last fall and got a chance to talk to a couple of folks who have been in the area before.

Not that I necessarily want competition but a) get away from the roads, b) stay away on weekends, c) if you aren't too anxious to bring home something, shoot older ones and let the smaller ones grow up.

[Don@Tahoe]

Find all the beds you can, now is fine, take notes of where they are and setup landmarks for yourself, then hunt them in a hard rain, downpour, hit every one you can while it's raining, if it rains the next day hit them again, and the next day again, stay out when the rain stops, I've been very successful doing exactly that, keep in mind it's a jump shoot and you have to be fast, but it's a really fun hunt!

[NickTheGreek]

Blacktail and hybrid mulies use multiple beds and will stop using one for weeks if it gets tampered with or starts to stink like you. They also switch to entirely new bedding areas when they shed their velvet. So as Don said, find them all now, then around two weeks before archery season starts stay far FAR away until the rain when you can actually walk up to them without them slipping out while you're still 1/4mi away. Don't even attempt to hunt beds if it's not a downpour. Those bucks are smarter than all of us and they picked those spots because they KNOW you cannot get anywhere near them before they hear, smell, or see you long before you see them. They will slip away quieter than a chipmunk and you'll walk up to that bed and think it's been empty the whole time.

However, you could setup or still hunt between the bedding areas and water, that's pretty much what I do. Just because you don't see a deer one day doesn't mean you won't the next day. I've noticed from setting tons of trail cams that these deer, especially the mature bucks, will make rounds to different areas and you'll only see them pass by a spot on a camera once a week, or even two weeks. If you've seen him there before, or found sign and you know it's a deer you want to chase, sit there every day you can. I've seen some GIANTS walk by my cameras in the open mid day during hunting season.

Congrats on the public land pig, not an easy one to find. I'm sure you had to put in a lot of days and miles to find him. Use that tactic when deer hunting, it's really tough in this state. I've been lucky enough to get a deer every year I've hunted, but not from being a good hunter, or being lucky, but being in the woods almost every single day. I'll usually be bi**hing and whining a month in about not seeing a buck and then after 30-40 days in the woods something pops out and I feel like a god!

And regarding road hunting, it's not usually a tactic that works for me, but I'd be willing to bet most public land deer are shot off forest roads by road hunters only because there are so many guys doing it. Me and my son hunted for a week straight last year. Hiked tens of miles, beat ourselves up packing into the toughest country out there, glassing, still hunting, etc, not one legal buck to be found. The deer we shot ended up jumping across a dirt road in the national forest as we were driving to another spot to hike in. I hopped out and popped him. So you never know. Mix it up. My girlfriend got her license for the first time this year, we will be doing some road hunting, hiking, trying it all.

[CVShooter]

Can't add much to the advice already given. But dusty conditions make for easier tracking. The tracks fade fast so any that you find will be relatively fresh. It's not as good as freshly fallen snow or soft mud but much better than hard, rocky ground that can't hold any tracks at all. If you find some with a fawn in the midst, you probably don't have a buck in that group. Look for loners or small groups of mature-sized tracks that are heavier in the front than the rear tracks (front hooves more splayed than the rear on level ground).

[SW011]

Originally Posted by NickTheGreek

Blacktail and hybrid mulies use multiple beds and will stop using one for weeks if it gets tampered with or starts to stink like you. They also switch to entirely new bedding areas when they shed their velvet. So as Don said, find them all now, then around two weeks before archery season starts stay far FAR away until the rain when you can actually walk up to them without them slipping out while you're still 1/4mi away. Don't even attempt to hunt beds if it's not a downpour. Those bucks are smarter than all of us and they picked those spots because they KNOW you cannot get anywhere near them before they hear, smell, or see you long before you see them. They will slip away quieter than a chipmunk and you'll walk up to that bed and think it's been empty the whole time.

However, you could setup or still hunt between the bedding areas and water, that's pretty much what I do. Just because you don't see a deer one day doesn't mean you won't the next day. I've noticed from setting tons of trail cams that these deer, especially the mature bucks, will make rounds to different areas and you'll only see them pass by a spot on a camera once a week, or even two weeks. If you've seen him there before, or found sign and you know it's a deer you want to chase, sit there every day you can. I've seen some GIANTS walk by my cameras in the open mid day during hunting season.

Congrats on the public land pig, not an easy one to find. I'm sure you had to put in a lot of days and miles to find him. Use that tactic when deer hunting, it's really tough in this state. I've been lucky enough to get a deer every year I've hunted, but not from being a good hunter, or being lucky, but being in the woods almost every single day. I'll usually be bi**hing and whining a month in about not seeing a buck and then after 30-40 days in the woods something pops out and I feel like a god!

And regarding road hunting, it's not usually a tactic that works for me, but I'd be willing to bet most public land deer are shot off forest roads by road hunters only because there are so many guys doing it. Me and my son hunted for a week straight last year. Hiked tens of miles, beat ourselves up packing into the toughest country out there, glassing, still hunting, etc, not one legal buck to be found. The deer we shot ended up jumping across a dirt road in the national forest as we were driving to another spot to hike in. I hopped out and popped him. So you never know. Mix it up. My girlfriend got her license for the first time this year, we will be doing some road hunting, hiking, trying it all.

This is extremely helpful, thanks for taking the time to help a rookie out! I know there are many others who are reading and gained something from your experience, so thanks!

I'm a good 3 hours from the zone, so it'll be tough to get out there as much as you do, but I'll do what suggested and scout early and then wait for weather. And you're right, took me a lot of trips and miles to get that pig, but it's all worth it when things connect!

Hope to run into you out there one day, I've got a cold one with your name on it!

[duckman1]

Good to see a new hunter putting in his time to hone his or her skills. I'm a firm believer that those who put the time in will be more successful. You'll also be in better shape and able to go where the deer are.

[SW011]

Thanks, everyone. A followup question for you experienced D3-5 hunters: how many of y'all use tree stands? It seems like a really common tactic in the Midwest and out East, but it seems like most of you out here do spot and stalk. Is this just a preference, or does that tactic lend itself better to our blacktails/mulies?

[Don@Tahoe]

You have to figure out what will work best for the terrain, all of the above can be used in D3-5 plus a few, keep in mind things change rapidly during the season, deer are nocturnal at that time and then the migration starts, weather has a big impact or lack of, you have to adjust to conditions, sometimes you will plan out a hunt the night before and wake up in the morning and say nope, that's not a good idea, change in plans, but that's what makes hunting these forest deer fun. You are asking good questions, you should get some good replies....

[NickTheGreek]

Originally Posted by SW011

Thanks, everyone. A followup question for you experienced D3-5 hunters: how many of y'all use tree stands? It seems like a really common tactic in the Midwest and out East, but it seems like most of you out here do spot and stalk. Is this just a preference, or does that tactic lend itself better to our blacktails/mulies?

I have one, and I've never used it.

I have a friend who gets good bucks in D5 (22"+ wide 3pt - 4pt class) every year out of a stand, but all on private land if that means anything to you. And another acquaintance who gets solid wall-mounter blacktail out of the Humbolt/Trinity/Mendo B Zone region on public land what seems like every year out of stands (the guy runs Blacktail Addiction on Facebook, you can see some of his really good bucks he harvested out of his stand posted on his page). They both set a bunch of cameras way early, and every single year and know their areas well.

I wouldn't just hang a stand in some potentially promising spot without knowing it holds what I want to invest that sort of effort into a single, hard to move place to sit, that may get stolen.

If I ever find a spot suitable for my stand, I'll absolutely hang it. I haven't found any consistently patternable bucks on public land out in these hills in places I would feel comfortable hanging a stand. I usually use natural ground blinds (tuck into/up against a bush or downed tree) but mostly still hunt.

Oh ya, and whatever Don@Tahoe suggest, try it. He taught me a ton when I first started hunting D zone and a lot of the info in my first post was picked up from hunting with him. He has made some long-winded posts in the past about hunting D4 and D5 if you search his post history you'll take home some good info.

[SW011]

Good advice @Nick, thanks! Guess I'll hold off on any new purchases until I get a few seasons under my belt and a better feel for the terrain/deer. It'll make my wife happier to space out my hunt spending too, so it's a win-win LOL

@Don, great point about being adaptable and spontaneous. I've realized through hunting this past year just how linear my thinking is naturally inclined to be (ie. "this place + this time + these conditions + the right gear = dead deer or pig"), it's good to have that reminder to be flexible and enjoy the process!

[stonefly-2]

Originally Posted by SW011

Thanks, everyone. A followup question for you experienced D3-5 hunters: how many of y'all use tree stands? It seems like a really common tactic in the Midwest and out East, but it seems like most of you out here do spot and stalk. Is this just a preference, or does that tactic lend itself better to our blacktails/mulies?

"Lend itself better" is a gross understatement,

as you learn just how very different whitetails and our deer are you are learning about our deer.

I say "our deer" because you will be better off thinking of the deer here as two different species as well with their own differences.

The deer getting chased out of the rose bushes in placerville in spring and the ones staggering through Grizzley flat/Auburn all swoll up right after the season closes are not the same critter.

As you scout keep in mind a given place you find deer could be high range for the bucks of one type and doe range for the other.

Hint:
would not "where the snow stays longest" also be the coolest place to bed in the summer as well as have the best watered forage?

[CVShooter]

I've often thought about tree stands in my location. I can look up and see a good tree with lots of visibility and think, yea! That would work!

Then I think about what would happen if/when I fall miles from the nearest road or trail. Suddenly, the ground feels pretty good. And I start thinking that I can just use the terrain a little smarter to get above it all. Unlike the midwest, I don't hunt right off the road somewhere and with a buddy. Out here, I'm on my own and pretty far removed from civilization.

Plus, I've had deer completely disappear for a couple days and then everywhere the next. Gambling on one or even two locations just doesn't offer much flexibility.

[Don@Tahoe]

I went into the Nevada Pine Nut Mountains yesterday (Sunday), those deer are the California X8 east slope migratoire heard, I was wondering if they had migrated yet, it's time, ran into four big pregnant mulie Does hanging together about 8,000 ft elevation, snow above them at about 8'500 ft, watched for an hour, they had no idea I was there, at one point I thought I might witness one giving birth but didn't happen, pretty cool anyway... Did see Lion tracks in the mud, without dogs or snow those things are pretty hard to hunt but I'm going to try and whack this thing....yes I have a tag...

[stonefly-2]

Originally Posted by Don@Tahoe

I went into the Nevada Pine Nut Mountains yesterday (Sunday), those deer are the California X8 east slope migratoire heard, I was wondering if they had migrated yet, it's time, ran into four big pregnant mulie Does hanging together about 8,000 ft elevation, snow above them at about 8'500 ft, watched for an hour, they had no idea I was there, at one point I thought I might witness one giving birth but didn't happen, pretty cool anyway... Did see Lion tracks in the mud, without dogs or snow those things are pretty hard to hunt but I'm going to try and whack this thing....yes I have a tag...

Would an ecaller be the next best option? sounds like its on a food source.

[Guns and guitars]

Originally Posted by SW011

Thanks, everyone. A followup question for you experienced D3-5 hunters: how many of y'all use tree stands? It seems like a really common tactic in the Midwest and out East, but it seems like most of you out here do spot and stalk. Is this just a preference, or does that tactic lend itself better to our blacktails/mulies?

I live and hunt in d5 and use tree stands for my archery tag.

Hard to say if its better.
There are so many people that hunt here now its pretty much a free for all anymore.
Ive had people walk under my stand with a lit cigarette, Been downrange while hunters pulled truck over and started sighting in their rifles and have to wait in lines at the gas station behind 10 vehicles all filling up their pick up'd quads.

So living here my suggestion is your scouting too early since what the deer are doing now is not what they are going to be doing in 3 months but its always good to get a lay of the land and hike.
Since hiking is whats going to get a tag filled in a zone that will have 300,000 people in it.

[CVShooter]

Originally Posted by Don@Tahoe

I went into the Nevada Pine Nut Mountains yesterday (Sunday), those deer are the California X8 east slope migratoire heard, I was wondering if they had migrated yet, it's time, ran into four big pregnant mulie Does hanging together about 8,000 ft elevation, snow above them at about 8'500 ft, watched for an hour, they had no idea I was there, at one point I thought I might witness one giving birth but didn't happen, pretty cool anyway... Did see Lion tracks in the mud, without dogs or snow those things are pretty hard to hunt but I'm going to try and whack this thing....yes I have a tag...

Watching a doe give birth -- that would be a rare experience!

[Don@Tahoe]

Originally Posted by stonefly-2

Would an ecaller be the next best option? sounds like its on a food source.

That's what I was thinking about, going to try it this weekend.

[Don@Tahoe]

Originally Posted by CVShooter

Watching a doe give birth -- that would be a rare experience!

Yes it would have been! She was acting funny for a while then she settled down.

[NickTheGreek]

Originally Posted by Don@Tahoe

Yes it would have been! She was acting funny for a while then she settled down.

The does out in lower D5 and D6 look like they are about to explode. Should be a bunch of fawns dropping right now. Need to get out there and start popping some yotes. Not much of a coyote hunter, but nothing else better to do these days.

[SW011]

That sounds super frustrating. To your credit, I guess you've concealed your stand well? Is it like that pretty much all season, or mainly just for the opener? Thanks for that advice, I think I'll just keep field notes of bed/sign but not get too married to it come the fall.

Originally Posted by Guns and guitars

I live and hunt in d5 and use tree stands for my archery tag.

Hard to say if its better.
There are so many people that hunt here now its pretty much a free for all anymore.
Ive had people walk under my stand with a lit cigarette, Been downrange while hunters pulled truck over and started sighting in their rifles and have to wait in lines at the gas station behind 10 vehicles all filling up their pick up'd quads.

So living here my suggestion is your scouting too early since what the deer are doing now is not what they are going to be doing in 3 months but its always good to get a lay of the land and hike.
Since hiking is whats going to get a tag filled in a zone that will have 300,000 people in it.