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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1241  
Old 05-19-2017, 7:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jglabe View Post
If you look at their "new" definition of fixed it allows for the removal of the magazine. So.... You register it without the mag inserted, as soon as it is registered you can insert a 30 round mag and you are GTG. And, keep your 30 round mag.
Except that the legislature has outlawed posession of even grandfathered 10+ rounders and were supposed to turn them in or get rid of them.
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Originally Posted by CADOJ
The ability to register an Assault Weapon pursuant to Assembly Bill 1135 and Senate Bill 880, is not yet available. Pursuant to AB 1135 and SB 880, Assault Weapon registration regulations must be effective before any registrations can take place. At this time, the regulations are still pending, however they should be effective in the very near future. Please continue to check the Bureau of Firearms website for updates.
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  #1242  
Old 05-19-2017, 7:43 AM
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I wonder if they'll reject a fixed mag rifle that is fixed mag because it uses a DFM and has a regular mag release. And on what grounds could they reject it?
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Originally Posted by CADOJ
The ability to register an Assault Weapon pursuant to Assembly Bill 1135 and Senate Bill 880, is not yet available. Pursuant to AB 1135 and SB 880, Assault Weapon registration regulations must be effective before any registrations can take place. At this time, the regulations are still pending, however they should be effective in the very near future. Please continue to check the Bureau of Firearms website for updates.
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  #1243  
Old 05-19-2017, 7:47 AM
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So single shot with no gas tube looks like it might be an option?
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  #1244  
Old 05-19-2017, 7:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA View Post
I'm still laughing my rear off at the fact that the regime in this state thinks that it is perfectly Constitutional to require of an individual wanting to exercise a specifically enumerated Constitutional right, that said individual;

- Must have high speed internet access.

- Must own a computer.

- Has knowledge and training to be able to use the internet.

- Has the knowledge and training to fully utilize said computer + internet.

- Must own or have access to a quality digital camera.

- Has the knowledge & ability to be able to take quality, clear digital photos photos.

- Has the knowledge and ability to create an account on a website and upload photos to said site.

I'm an IT Professional and I can tell you there are a shocking amount of white-collar, educated professionals; doctors, etc.; who would not be able to perform these tasks wholly on their own, unassisted and without asking for any assistance whatsoever.

This alone will be the complete downfall of these laws & regulations.




.
Yeah, a lot of people already have trouble doing online forms. I mean if there are help centers to assist people with signing up for Obama Care. I don't know how they would reasonably expect people to know how to upload photos to the sign-up form.
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  #1245  
Old 05-19-2017, 7:55 AM
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There's no way in hell anyone who's moved out of Ca. Is filling out any paperwork for Ca. Sorry.


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  #1246  
Old 05-19-2017, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by HD4Jim View Post
Looks like it will be good to me. You have to read the definitions, then the definitions of the words inside the definitions. It says "contained in, or perminately attached". "Contained in" sounds like the ARMaglock will work. OR... You can permanently attach by welding or whatever.

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Wrong. Bb 2.0 is dead for ARs unless you literally remove the rear pin. "Disassembling the firearm action on a two part receiver, like that on an ar15 style firearm, would require the rear takedown pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted upward and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcrum, before the magazine may be removed."

Pushing the rear pin out aint enough by those words. It needs to actually be removed.
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  #1247  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
Wrong. Bb 2.0 is dead for ARs unless you literally remove the rear pin. "Disassembling the firearm action on a two part receiver, like that on an ar15 style firearm, would require the rear takedown pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted upward and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcrum, before the magazine may be removed."

Pushing the rear pin out aint enough by those words. It needs to actually be removed.
This is my understanding too, but where is that quote from specifically? I don't see it in the new regs?
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  #1248  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
Wrong. Bb 2.0 is dead for ARs unless you literally remove the rear pin. "Disassembling the firearm action on a two part receiver, like that on an ar15 style firearm, would require the rear takedown pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted upward and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcrum, before the magazine may be removed."

Pushing the rear pin out aint enough by those words. It needs to actually be removed.
What? So you would have to permanently remove the rear detent pin in that case.
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  #1249  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Reasonably speaking, one should be able to actually have an assault weapon if one is to register as such.

I know, I know - this is CA, and there is nothing "reasonable" about any of this.

A.W.D.
Well, that is how the poorly crafted legislation was written, opening the door to registration of new AW's. Of course DOJ is going to try to slam that door shut through creative regulations, but that just opens the lawsuit door. I suspect this can of worms may not be resolved by the end of the year, in which case it gets even more interesting....
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  #1250  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:14 AM
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Originally Posted by justagun View Post
So take the BB off before you register it, since you cant change it AFTER you register it.
No, they cover that too. Basically if you take if before you register then you have created an illegal AW.

Go featureless. Don't register.
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  #1251  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Baboosh View Post
Haven't been able to read it all. Is this still there?

11 CFR 5471 (hh) "Semiautomatic" means a firearm functionally able to fire a single cartridge eject the empty case and reload the chamber each time the trigger is dulled and released. Further, certain necessary mechanical parts that will allow a firearm to function in a semiautomatic nature must be present for a weapon to be deemed semiautomatic. A weapon clearly designed to be semiautomatic but lacking a firing pin bolt carrier gas tube or some other crucial part of the firearm is not semiautomatic for purposes of Penal Code section 30515, 30600 and 30605(a) and 30900.
It's still there. I'm going to take out my firing pins and lock them up somewhere safe. Tada! I'm compliant with minimal effort.
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  #1252  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Dust View Post
So single shot with no gas tube looks like it might be an option?


Yup
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  #1253  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
Wrong. Bb 2.0 is dead for ARs unless you literally remove the rear pin. "Disassembling the firearm action on a two part receiver, like that on an ar15 style firearm, would require the rear takedown pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted upward and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcrum, before the magazine may be removed."

Pushing the rear pin out aint enough by those words. It needs to actually be removed.
How would that even work? There's a detent pin to keep the rear in place - a fully removable pin seems like a compromise of the safety of the platform.
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  #1254  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
No worries. They'll simply send a drone with a camera and a warrant.....
Seems like it's getting that way.
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  #1255  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pluke the 2 View Post
its comedy gold how people on here who thought they were going to take them bb's off after registering their new AWCA bb-ca compl. sacrs ..........
Dude its not a crime to be a "dreamer" Hell some of em get free UC education.
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  #1256  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:42 AM
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Default Can you remove the Bullet Button prior to registering?

From what I understand we are in a window of time (the 2017) where you can own an "assault weapon" that is un-registered as long as you register it before 2018. What is stopping us from removing a bullet button, which from what I understand is an "assault weapon" and registering it without the bullet button? I haven't heard anything about different levels of "assault weapons", ie with and without bbuttons. I probably missed something that I'll get slammed for but that's fine...
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  #1257  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:43 AM
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no you can't
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  #1258  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:43 AM
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Nobody knows
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  #1259  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevehazard View Post
"Any alteration to the release mechanism converts the assault weapon into a different weapon from the one that was registered."

So take it this their way of saying your not allowed to make any adjustments to a certain brand of mag lock, use any sort of magnet, or even paint a different color. Can't say I'm surprised.
I've spent a lot of time reading the newest regs to try to fully understand them. I think everyone should spend a good amount of time reading them too. I don't believe it means that ^ and here's why.

With regards to the maglock portion in your post quoted above:

A. The new laws (AB 1135 & SB 880) are framed around the requirement of having to have a " 'fixed magazine' to mean an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action" (CA DOJ definition on the website), or resister as an AW.

For anyone with a "fixed magazine" (per their definition), no person themselves and not even a gunsmith could ever be able to repair/fix a type 3 malfunction (i.e. double feed) on a rifle with a maglock type product or any product that creates a "fixed magazine". Here is why, in order to fix a type 3 malfunction/jam on a rifle that has a product/device that creates a "fixed magazine device contained in, or permanently attached to..." setup, the BCG is partially in the tube and as a result of this it necessitates having to adjust/remove the magazine release mechanism (in this case a maglock or similar type product) in order to drop the magazine and be able to clear the malfunction/jam. So like i said, if you could not do this, no rifle with a product that creates a "fixed magazine" as they require and define, could ever be repaired, because it necessitates having to: first remove the mag release mechanism, in order to be able to remove the magazine, in order to actually repair/clear/fix the malfunction/jam. Performing an operation like this would not be classified as a magazine reloading operation, it would be performing a repair, because as i stated, if it isn't, then no rifle with a maglock type device creating a "fixed magazine" could ever be repaired of a type 3 malfunction (double feed).

On another similar note, per their definition on page 3 of the regs, a maglock type product would not constitute an "ammunition feeding device" that would create a "detachable magazine" (per definition m). A maglock type product is a magazine release mechanism / "magazine catch assembly". A maglock type product (magazine release mechanism) IS JUST THAT, a MAGAZINE
RELEASE mechanism. It does NOT feed ammunition into the barrel, it CONTAINS and REMOVES MAGAZINE(S) in the rifle. MAGAZINES are what FEED AMMUNITION. You CAN'T load bullets onto/into a maglock type product.

So for the theoretical argument that maglock type products are like a bullet-button or "could" be removed with a tool and thus wouldn't be compliant, they aren't like a BB, and ARE compliant. That is because they DON'T fall under the regulation's definition of a "bullet button" (defined on page 3 of the regs), because they don't "use a tool to remove an ammunition feeding device or magazine...".

Further to this, using the methodology and definitions CA DOJ is using, you CAN have a mag lock product installed on your rifle and have it be compliant to the new laws and regulations, and be able to adjust/remove it in order to perform a repair for a type 3 malfunction like a double feed as explained in the previous paragraph above, because you are performing a repair and not performing an operation to reload a magazine/"ammunition feeding device".

Also, maglock products would comply, because it would satisfy "Article 3 section 5472 (d) says that "The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm has a fixed magazine that holds ten rounds or less", along with the other regulations.

B. For rifles registered as AW's there is also other language in the regs that allows for the magazine release mechanism to be removed for the purpose of repair/replacement of the mechanism (page 14, section 5477, sub section b).

C. You can use a magnet to remove say a BB as long as it does not sit attached on the BB itself (see page 13, section 5471, sub section m).

Last edited by Jnbr19867; 05-19-2017 at 9:38 AM..
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  #1260  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:52 AM
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Nope. If you do you and up with an unregistered AW from the 2001 ban. This is exactly why the DOJ will not register an AW without the BB and why they want the picture.
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  #1261  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:53 AM
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If you remove all evil features, yes.
as I understand it, the grace period prevents your BB equipped rifles from being enforced as an AW.
A rifle with evil features, and without a BB was, and still IS a assault weapon. without proper registration expect felony possession.
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  #1262  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
This is my understanding too, but where is that quote from specifically? I don't see it in the new regs?
Top of pg 4.
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  #1263  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:55 AM
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Originally Posted by matt2016 View Post
What? So you would have to permanently remove the rear detent pin in that case.
Yup, because it cant be removed with the detent or spring in place.
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  #1264  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:58 AM
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Your answer should lie in these sections. Weapon that was previously valid to register under different era cannot be done now. So a regular mag release with pistol grip would have been apart of a different registration but it also would have to been lawfully possessed prior to 2017, which technically would have been illegal. Up to you guys if you want to register (I say hell no). But send in pics of a firearm that is with out a BB? That gives them perfect evidence to throw the book at you.







Specific reference to bullet button firearm is being registered.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg AW reg 5470.jpg (98.4 KB, 1258 views)
File Type: jpg AW reg 5472.jpg (82.7 KB, 1252 views)
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  #1265  
Old 05-19-2017, 8:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ironpegasus View Post
How would that even work? There's a detent pin to keep the rear in place - a fully removable pin seems like a compromise of the safety of the platform.
Obviously you remove the detent and spring. You think they care about safety? F no!
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  #1266  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:01 AM
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All very frustrating and confusing, but also this in particular...

Quote:
5472.e
The Department will not register the firearm as an assualt weapon unless the firearm is fully functional.

5474.b
A description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including but not limited to: firearm type...barrel length...

5474.c
...One photo shall depict the firearm from the end of the barrel...


So people who have had completed lowers with a bullet-button installed, but no upper installed (technically still an assault weapon according to the new law), and planned on registering, must now go out and purchase thousands of dollars worth of uppers just to register? Can you even still legally add an upper to a completed bullet-button-lower at this point?
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  #1267  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
Yup, because it cant be removed with the detent or spring in place.
That won't fly because you are still opening the action to eject the magazine. BTW the pin is completely removed from the upper.
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  #1268  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jglabe View Post
So, if I were to register a fixed 30 round mag rifle I can? Sure sounds like that.

Article 3 section 5472 (d) says that "The Department will not register a firearm as an assault weapon if the firearm has a fixed magazine that holds ten rounds or less"
I find this very interesting. I saw a product that allows for speed loading a fixed mag that looked promising.

The question would be was it legal to possess during the timeframe given. Let's say it was a featureless build with a fixed 30 round mag.
Interesting.
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Old 05-19-2017, 9:03 AM
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Based on re-reading this it seems like nothing has changed, and BBv2,0 is fine, at least the ones I have seen that pull the rear pin and have a catch that prevents the upper from swinging too far.


"Disassembly of the firearm action" means the fire control assembly is detached from the
action in such a way that the action has been interrupted and will not function. For
example, disassembling the action on a two part receiver, like that on an AR-15 style
firearm, would require the rear take down pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted
upwards and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcnun,
before the magazine may be removed."
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So it sounds to me like you're outraged about something that isn't actually happening anywhere outside your imagination.
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  #1270  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:03 AM
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Based on re-reading this it seems like nothing has changed, and BBv2,0 is fine, at least the ones I have seen that pull the rear pin and have a catch that prevents the upper from swinging too far.


"Disassembly of the firearm action" means the fire control assembly is detached from the
action in such a way that the action has been interrupted and will not function. For
example, disassembling the action on a two part receiver, like that on an AR-15 style
firearm, would require the rear take down pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted
upwards and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcnun,
before the magazine may be removed."
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  #1271  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Crusader Matt View Post
All very frustrating and confusing, but also this in particular...



...Can you even still legally add an upper to a completed bullet-button-lower at this point?
You can as long as you had purchased, DROS'd, and picked up the bullet-button-lower before Dec 31, 2016. This would also allow you to, if desired, to register as a bullet-button AW.
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  #1272  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:05 AM
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All the fees and accessibility constraints are economic burdens which falls hardest on the low income. Economic discrimination.

You wonder why it's $25 to buy a pistol on the Black.....we pay $450, plus the fees etc.

Just gross.

And Eric Holder hands out thousands of weapons into the Black for a slap on the wrist.
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  #1273  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:07 AM
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Im fairly certain that their intent of "removed" was not meant taken out of the lower completely as even those idiots know its a captive pin...and means to pop the pin out to open the action...but Im calling my field rep later today and ask ...proof reading is needed at state level...
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  #1274  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:08 AM
c-mo c-mo is offline
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So if the BB manufacturer decides to stop making them and mine were to break....


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  #1275  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:10 AM
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Originally Posted by c-mo View Post
So if the BB manufacturer decides to stop making them and mine were to break....


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I'm sure thats not something they have even considered.
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  #1276  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:13 AM
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So magnets are a no-go?
What if one was to glue a twig, or some similar object onto their BB?
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  #1277  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:14 AM
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Originally Posted by justagun View Post
So take the BB off before you register it, since you cant change it AFTER you register it.
Your answer should lie in these sections. Weapon that was previously valid to register under different era cannot be done now. So a regular mag release with pistol grip would have been apart of a different registration but it also would have to been lawfully possessed prior to 2017, which technically would have been illegal. Up to you guys if you want to register (I say hell no). But send in pics of a firearm that is with out a BB? That gives them perfect evidence to throw the book at you.



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  #1278  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:16 AM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
That won't fly because you are still opening the action to eject the magazine. BTW the pin is completely remove from the upper.
Not so, the regs say REMOVED, not removed from the upper. You honestly think the doj will give you ANY slack on this? Look at the regs. There is no slack!
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  #1279  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:18 AM
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Originally Posted by nagzul View Post
I find this very interesting. I saw a product that allows for speed loading a fixed mag that looked promising.

The question would be was it legal to possess during the timeframe given. Let's say it was a featureless build with a fixed 30 round mag.
Interesting.
Yes the next step will be devices that speed load a fixed magazine. If seen the top loader I think you may have seen.
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  #1280  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lonestargrizzly View Post
So magnets are a no-go?
What if one was to glue a twig, or some similar object onto their BB?
glue a pencil eraser top. hahaha
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Because -ohmigosh- they can add their opinions, too?
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