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  #1  
Old 05-18-2017, 6:15 PM
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Default Altered M1903 Serial Number?

Does the "1" in this M1903 serial number look legit?
Apologies for the huge pics. This is from Allan's Armory.
https://ganymede.meccahosting.com/~a...temId=092116US

Description says:
"U S Military Model 1903 Springfield Rifle {30-06} Serial # 1444265. Manufactured by Springfield Armory in 1934. Stock is in VG (Closer to VG) to VG+ condition. Some tiger striping, see photo. Metal finish 70%. Has target/match grade rear sight, see photo. Bore has VG to VG+ lands, grooves have mirror shine $950"



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  #2  
Old 05-18-2017, 6:36 PM
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Maybe it's just poorly struck?
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2017, 6:39 PM
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The various threads say they centered the numbers - http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearm...3#.WR5MBYWcE2w http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...03-Springfield
I am no expert, but I can't tell if it is centered with or without the "1".
Without the "1" I guess it is a low-numbered receiver - under 800000 - ?
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Old 05-18-2017, 7:03 PM
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In my opinion it is not a legit 1. But a second opinion is surely warranted.

Maybe someone added the 1, to hide that it is a low number, which could have the steel defect the early receivers had?

Hope you find the answer for sure. If it is indeed altered, that is kinda a no, no to own anyway.
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2017, 7:35 PM
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Doesn't look legit to me. I wouldn't buy that one for any more than $500.

I am not too alarmist about low numbers..but the trying to hide it part.

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  #6  
Old 05-18-2017, 7:40 PM
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I had no intent on buying it, just thought it looked fishy.
I was hoping someone with a M1903 in the 1mil range would post a pic of theirs.
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2017, 7:41 PM
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It looks OK. If you go by the measure others are using here, the "265" dont look right either.
What's the story with the rest of the rifle?
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2017, 7:56 PM
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There is nothing to be gained by it being altered. It looks just fine by me.
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  #9  
Old 05-18-2017, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdfact View Post
I had no intent on buying it, just thought it looked fishy.
I was hoping someone with a M1903 in the 1mil range would post a pic of theirs.
Ask and ye shall receive:



I think it looks a little fishy, but I would have to examine it in person to give a more definite answer

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Originally Posted by John Browning View Post
There is nothing to be gained by it being altered. It looks just fine by me.
It has been known to be done in the past by unscrupulous people tryint to pass off low number receivers as high numbered.
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  #10  
Old 05-18-2017, 9:00 PM
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That's a tough one to tell for sure. The "1" does look different from the other numbers but it might just be a weird striking from when it was numbered.
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Old 05-18-2017, 9:15 PM
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It doesn't look centered. Without the leading 1, it's perfectly centered. Also, compare the alignment of the numbers with the "MODEL 1903." text above it vs Highpower's picture.
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2017, 9:30 PM
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That's not a National Match rear sight, this is a M1903 NM rear sight...

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  #13  
Old 05-18-2017, 9:35 PM
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The stamp starts off deep and crisp on the right and fades lighter with each number. Seems legit.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:25 PM
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I would pass also not for that price
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2017, 7:39 AM
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Suspect, not centered on Model 1903
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Old 05-19-2017, 7:47 AM
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And one other thing, that stock is a WWII replacement "C" stock. Not that it matters with that serial number being altered. Also the barrel is a '44 High Standard replacement.

I think that it is one of the many, many low number Springfields that were refurbished as war reserves during the war and then sold off in the sixties. After it went into civilian hands, someone decided to enhance the value.
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:04 AM
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Ask Bill Ricca.
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  #18  
Old 05-21-2017, 7:17 AM
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I pulled my 03 out of the safe yesterday that has a 1.3 million S/N and it is centered
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Old 05-27-2017, 3:45 PM
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I've studied the way the leading "1" has been struck on a lot of 1903 serial numbers shown on the web and my own 1903. Some are struck in a manner that looks like a carrot shape ...thin on the top and fat on the bottom. The serial number you displayed on the 1903 in your thread looks like one with the leading carrot "1". There are so many examples on web that I cannot believe they are all fake. They are all struck rather uniformly and in alignment with the other numbers in the serial numbers. I've found that the number "1" has been struck in a number of different ways, maybe depending upon when the rifle was made.






Last edited by loademup; 06-29-2017 at 10:14 PM..
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  #20  
Old 05-27-2017, 4:21 PM
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Looks like somebody bought it - it's no longer for sale on the website.
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Old 05-28-2017, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loademup View Post
I've studied the way the leading "1" has been struck on a lot of 1903 serial numbers shown on the web and my own 1903. Some are struck in a manner that looks like a carrot shape ...thin on the top and fat on the bottom. The serial number you displayed on the 1903 in your thread looks like one with the leading carrot "1". There are so many examples on web that I cannot believe they are all fake. They are all struck rather uniformly and in alignment with the other numbers in the serial numbers. I've found that the number "1" has been struck in a number of different ways, maybe depending upon when the rifle was made......

This.
Ones, lower case "l's", and "I's" always cause spacing issues with all sorts of printing. Also, has anyone here actually tried to stamp a 1903 or A3 receiver with a hand stamp? Or try to find the exact font used? Not so easy. The number on the gun in question looks legit, the rest of it looks a tad rough, or "put together" for $950
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2017, 10:19 AM
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I don't think Allan would knowingly sell something humped. He's a long time sponsor over on gunboards and FWIW I've purchased from him recently and found him very easy to work with and extraordinarily accommodating for CA buyers. (purchase was non C&R)
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2017, 2:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntingsocal View Post
I don't think Allan would knowingly sell something humped. He's a long time sponsor over on gunboards and FWIW I've purchased from him recently and found him very easy to work with and extraordinarily accommodating for CA buyers. (purchase was non C&R)


I certainly didn't mean to imply the seller was being dishonest. I was just asking the brain trust here that are more knowledgeable than me. If the SN had been altered I assumed the seller was unaware. But as many have pointed out, it appears to be legit.
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2017, 9:33 AM
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I purchased it from a very reputable dealer who I trust 100%. Not being an expert on 1903s, I'll leave it up to the long time collectors here to make that determination of the serial #. Seems like it's legit? As for the stock, we knew it was a WWII replacement.
Allan Schisel
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