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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #641  
Old 04-04-2017, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
They used the Nuclear Option to eliminate the need for 60 on Appellate Justices... If the Republicans invoke the Nuclear Option for SCOTUS, the dems have nobody to blame but themselves.
Schumer and Durbin are doing a fine job of carrying on the obstructionist legacy of Gephardt and Daschle, using up so much oxygen that the public believes that they are actually in charge.
Something else to consider. Once crossed, when and on who is the "60 for cloture requirement discarded" most likely to be next applied? That candidate would seem to be Justice Ginsburg and as likely, with Trump as President. Further, while Trump hasn't been winning and influencing, the Democrats have more seats up in 2018 than the Republicans. So the prospect of controlling the Senate if Ginsburg goes is dicey.

Schumer should hope for a few Democrats to "defect" on cloture.
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  #642  
Old 04-04-2017, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Trump1 View Post
It's completely absurd to think that Feinstein and Harris would support Gorsuch.


Harris, yes. Feinstein, I'm not so sure. She's senior to Schumer and is leaving so won't face any consequences. If Schumer is looking for a way to avoid filibuster and take no blame for failing to "rally the troops" Feinstein voting "yes" on cloture provides it. She gets to be statemanlike, Schumer gets to say "what, I'm supposed to tell this yenta what to do .....?"
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  #643  
Old 04-04-2017, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
Something else to consider. Once crossed, when and on who is the "60 for cloture requirement discarded" most likely to be next applied? That candidate would seem to be Justice Ginsburg and as likely, with Trump as President. Further, while Trump hasn't been winning and influencing, the Democrats have more seats up in 2018 than the Republicans. So the prospect of controlling the Senate if Ginsburg goes is dicey.

Schumer should hope for a few Democrats to "defect" on cloture.
Its actually more likely that Kennedy retires. Rumors have been swirling over the past couple months. Kennedy didnt teach summer classes in Salzburg last year. He is also holding the gathering of his former clerks one year early(these have traditionally been used for retirement announcements), and Kennedy did not hire a new law clerk this year. Throw in the fact Kennedy has his legacy with Obergfell decision and Gorsuch was Trump's nominee(Kennedy's well liked former law clerk), the writing is on the wall.

Last edited by kuug; 04-04-2017 at 5:18 PM.. Reason: Order of words
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  #644  
Old 04-04-2017, 7:06 PM
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Its actually more likely that Kennedy retires. Rumors have been swirling over the past couple months. Kennedy didnt teach summer classes in Salzburg last year. He is also holding the gathering of his former clerks one year early(these have traditionally been used for retirement announcements), and Kennedy did not hire a new law clerk this year. Throw in the fact Kennedy has his legacy with Obergfell decision and Gorsuch was Trump's nominee(Kennedy's well liked former law clerk), the writing is on the wall.
Are you certain about that? References?

This article, from way back in early January, claims otherwise:

http://abovethelaw.com/2017/01/supre...-turn-to-2018/

Supreme Court Clerk Hiring Watch: October Term 2017 Is Done; Let’s Turn To 2018
Don't count on any justice retiring before the end of next Term.


Excerpt:

But don’t count on anyone retiring from the Court this Term or next (various rumors notwithstanding). All nine justices have hired four law clerks apiece for October Term 2017, which is a good sign that they’re planning on sticking around, at least through the end of OT 2017 in June 2018. As we’ve explained before, “Retired justices get just one clerk each while active justices get four, and justices with retirement on their minds typically hire just one clerk until they’re sure they’ll be sticking around.”

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy was the last to hire up, and the final clerk hired by AMK was Geoff Shaw (Yale 2016 / Reinhardt).
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  #645  
Old 04-06-2017, 3:42 PM
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Its actually more likely that Kennedy retires.
No, it's not. surfgeorge has it right. There were some questions because of a couple of behavioral departures from the norm, but a direct phone call to Kennedy's office put all that to bed.
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  #646  
Old 04-10-2017, 4:01 PM
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Another 7 days and 4 more co-sponsors (185).
Another 7 days and 2 more co-sponsors: 187
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  #647  
Old 04-11-2017, 11:04 AM
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Another 7 days and 2 more co-sponsors: 187


How many co-sponsors needed?


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  #648  
Old 04-11-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 10RoundDump View Post
How many co-sponsors needed?


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None.

What it needs is to pass committee, be brought for a full house vote, then pass the house.

Co-sponsors is a messaging thing. It might marginally increase pressure to bring a vote.
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  #649  
Old 04-11-2017, 11:23 AM
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How many co-sponsors needed?


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Technically zero, but you need 218 congressman to vote for a bill to pass simple majority rules.
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  #650  
Old 04-15-2017, 7:34 AM
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Default FOX: "Trump To Be First President Since Reagan [in '83] to Address NRA Forum"

Anyone wanna bet whether Trump will use the occasion to call for National Reciprocity legislation?

Quote:
The National Rifle Association announced that President Trump will speak at the organization's annual leadership forum

The NRA's Institute for Legislative Action's executive director Chris Cox made the announcement on Twitter on Friday.

The president is scheduled to appear at the conference on April 28 in Atlanta, Ga.

Trump was endorsed by the NRA during the presidential election and was praised for his repeated defense of the right to bear arms.

He will be the first sitting president since Ronald Reagan to address the convention.
More at:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/04/1...anta-cruz-west
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  #651  
Old 04-15-2017, 10:02 AM
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Good National Reciprocity legislation that includes all law-abiding Americans is the only way. This needs to come up for a vote right after the recess is over.

Even if Peruta is heard by SCOTUS, the chance of a favorable ruling is slim, even with Gorsuch.
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  #652  
Old 04-15-2017, 11:12 AM
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National Shalll-Issue CCW, handled by the FBI and it's centralized database.
Do it under the "Real-ID Act" then move to a national driver's license.
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  #653  
Old 04-15-2017, 12:02 PM
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I read elsewhere here, in another thread, that we have some of our legal experts actually working to tighten the language of H.R. 38 to legally strengthen it against possible CA (and other anti-gun states) counterattacks via 'nuisance laws', and others, to prohibit handguns being carried in a wide range of places and effectively nullify the nationwide reciprocity benefit.

Any status update on that work? Are you guys regularly meeting with Congressional reps and co-sponsors who are working this for congressman Hudson? I'm very interested in this and how things are progressing on that front and less on all of us (me included) 'guessing' on how National Reciprocity is or ought to go and play out.

Happy Easter everyone...
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  #654  
Old 04-15-2017, 1:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
I read elsewhere here, in another thread, that we have some of our legal experts actually working to tighten the language of H.R. 38 to legally strengthen it against possible CA (and other anti-gun states) counterattacks via 'nuisance laws', and others, to prohibit handguns being carried in a wide range of places and effectively nullify the nationwide reciprocity benefit.

Any status update on that work? Are you guys regularly meeting with Congressional reps and co-sponsors who are working this for congressman Hudson? I'm very interested in this and how things are progressing on that front and less on all of us (me included) 'guessing' on how National Reciprocity is or ought to go and play out.
But no specifics, please. We don't want to tip our hand to the antis.

Just give us an idea of how things are going, when you expect the bill to get moving and even there, just a rough idea, like the season: this summer? fall? winter? next spring?
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  #655  
Old 04-15-2017, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Aegis View Post
Even if Peruta is heard by SCOTUS, the chance of a favorable ruling is slim, even with Gorsuch.
I beg to differ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
National Shalll-Issue CCW, handled by the FBI and it's centralized database.
Do it under the "Real-ID Act" then move to a national driver's license.
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  #656  
Old 04-15-2017, 2:41 PM
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What's with these people and their lawyer speak? Just write it in English.
DANG!!
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  #657  
Old 04-16-2017, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
I read elsewhere here, in another thread, that we have some of our legal experts actually working to tighten the language of H.R. 38 to legally strengthen it against possible CA (and other anti-gun states) counterattacks via 'nuisance laws', and others, to prohibit handguns being carried in a wide range of places and effectively nullify the nationwide reciprocity benefit.

Any status update on that work? Are you guys regularly meeting with Congressional reps and co-sponsors who are working this for congressman Hudson? I'm very interested in this and how things are progressing on that front and less on all of us (me included) 'guessing' on how National Reciprocity is or ought to go and play out.

Happy Easter everyone...
So, status updates were the purview of the old "right people" where they advised people on progress with vague, very promising sounding words, "2 weeks", and lots of emojis and secrecy about what anyone could do besides $$.

This of course built up expectations massively, and when efforts failed, people who saw the opaque process opened enough to tell them their money was welcome, but input/help wasn't, led to failure, and eventual anger and turning on CGF as a vehicle of trust.

We welcome anyone who wants to contribute ideas, possible alternate lines of attack for us/that antis might use, etc. Feel free to post or message me or another member these ideas. Honestly, this is an organic effort, and outside ideas of lines of attack antis might use against us are more than welcome. Feel free to message me or other members of the team, or post here.

However, at this juncture while we haven't finalized on a forum posture, we certainly are NOT going to mirror the old CGF approach of status updates. I would WELCOME those who want to CONTRIBUTE- those ready to phone, email, get friends in other districts, help with targeting efforts, etc. any of that- I'd welcome advice, contributions, an eager "I'd like to help!"-

As far as updating on sausage making, legal drafting, and things like that? No updates on legalisms or anything that might possibly help the moles (Hi there!) who regularly troll calguns, and have subpoena powers, about the sensitive work the panel is doing. Chefs don't give status updates, and we aren't going to either.

Now, if anyone WOULD like to start another thread, or ask what they could do, or get added to a list of our effort to coincide with events- like Trump speaking at the NRA conference- I would welcome that and will FULLY contribute, update, and help.

If and when there's a role, or benefit on updates on the other things, I will let those interested know. But I'm not going to promise anything at this juncture that can't be imminently backed up and not destroy any credibility these green shoots may have.



So instead of telling you to sit on your butt and listen to things other people are doing or waiting for updates like an outdated piece of software, I want activists. I want people that will be a part of the solution, and not sit like a past his prime actor waiting for salvation from "right people" who announce things but otherwise keep everyone out of the process. The kitchen might be off limits, but we can certainly use help clearing the snow from the road and walk. And the ONLY way we're getting people in the door is by clearing that snow. And, to be honest, the faster the snow is cleared, the more pressure the cooks will feel and the faster they'll cook. But clearing the snow is the much more important part, and where the most labor is needed.
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  #658  
Old 04-20-2017, 6:30 AM
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And, to be honest, the faster the snow is cleared, the more pressure the cooks will feel and the faster they'll cook. But clearing the snow is the much more important part, and where the most labor is needed.
Well said.

Feel free to PM me if you've got ways to "help clear the snow" as I'd like to help.
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  #659  
Old 04-29-2017, 2:31 PM
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Any updates on this bill
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  #660  
Old 04-30-2017, 10:21 AM
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Anyone wanna bet whether Trump will use the occasion to call for National Reciprocity legislation?
Well, I was wrong about that!

Tump only alluded to it via a nationwide right to self-defense and only in passing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Another 7 days and 2 more co-sponsors: 187
Another 20 days and 2 more co-sponsors: 189
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Last edited by Paladin; 04-30-2017 at 10:23 AM..
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  #661  
Old 05-08-2017, 5:27 PM
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Another 20 days and 2 more co-sponsors: 189
8 more days and 2 more (191 total) co-sponsors.

Here's an article where Chris Cox gives his take on Nat'l Recip.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/gun-rig...e-complacency/

Sounds like he's wants a vote, win or lose, before the 2018 midterm campaigns kick in so that the NRA-ILA knows clearly who's on our side and who's against us, so that we can replace covert antis (e.g., like Sen. Mark Warner (Dem), who voted for Nat'l Recip when it had no chance, but this year flipped against it now that it has a chance of passing).

Go Team NRA!
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Last edited by Paladin; 05-09-2017 at 5:25 PM..
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  #662  
Old 05-16-2017, 5:12 PM
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A group of law enforcement leaders and gun control activists led by former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and her husband Mark Kelly are launching a lobbying effort Tuesday to oppose Congressional bills which would decrease federal regulation of silencers and nationalize concealed carry permitting. The coalition argues that the bills would make law enforcement less safe.

In a memo expected to be sent to the White House, Capitol Hill and activists during National Police Week, the Law Enforcement Coalition for Common Sense details its opposition to two Congressional bills and renews a call to close loopholes in the background check system.

“[Congress] needs to reject irresponsible calls to mandate the unrestricted concealed carry of firearms and allow free access to dangerous silencers, which present a new menacing threat to our communities and law enforcement professionals,” the memo says. “It is clear that guns in dangerous hands make law enforcement officers more vulnerable.”

The coalition of active and retired police chiefs, sheriffs and federal agents was put together by Americans for Responsible Solutions, the organization founded by Giffords, a victim of gun violence, and Kelly.

<snip>

Still, gun control proponents are concerned about a bill that would allow states to recognize concealed carry permits from all states nationwide. The coalition memo says the “Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act” would effectively undermine or make ineffective state laws with different or stricter guidelines for permits.

<snip>
More at:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...n-control-push
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  #663  
Old 05-17-2017, 3:59 PM
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Funny that "Peoples Republic of" never is -- just like "Common Sense gun laws" never are.
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  #664  
Old 05-19-2017, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
8 more days and 2 more (191 total) co-sponsors.

Here's an article where Chris Cox gives his take on Nat'l Recip.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/gun-rig...e-complacency/

Sounds like he's wants a vote, win or lose, before the 2018 midterm campaigns kick in so that the NRA-ILA knows clearly who's on our side and who's against us, so that we can replace covert antis (e.g., like Sen. Mark Warner (Dem), who voted for Nat'l Recip when it had no chance, but this year flipped against it now that it has a chance of passing).

Go Team NRA!

Up to 193 and 36 with the Senate (S.446) bill. Both are still in their initial committees, however.
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  #665  
Old 05-27-2017, 7:45 AM
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Congress needs to get this thing up for vote before the recess. Peruta is going nowhere.
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  #666  
Old 05-28-2017, 8:02 PM
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9 days later and 0 more cosponsors. Still no word on getting HR38 in front of a committee. The Republicans are throwing us under the bus.
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Old 05-29-2017, 5:08 AM
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  #668  
Old 05-29-2017, 5:21 AM
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9 days later and 0 more cosponsors. Still no word on getting HR38 in front of a committee. The Republicans are throwing us under the bus.
Congress can't walk and chew gum at the same time. I don't expect this to go anywhere until health care & tax reform are done.
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Old 06-03-2017, 11:13 AM
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Up to 193 and 36 with the Senate (S.446) bill. Both are still in their initial committees, however.
Still dead in the water at 193....
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  #670  
Old 06-03-2017, 11:20 AM
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Congress can't walk and chew gum at the same time. I don't expect this to go anywhere until health care & tax reform are done.
I like our republican congress ! We (they)have stopped ALL ODUMMYS gun control restrictions.
Lighten up on our friends,Please!
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  #671  
Old 06-03-2017, 1:11 PM
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I like our republican congress ! We (they)have stopped ALL ODUMMYS gun control restrictions.
Lighten up on our friends,Please!
You must live somewhere where your master let's you have a CCW.
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  #672  
Old 06-05-2017, 2:35 PM
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Default LAT OpEd: "Arizona gun laws in L.A.? It could happen"

Seems ol' Chucky Beck has his panties bunched up over the prospect of Nat'l Recip flooding CA with law-abiding gun toters....

Here's Chucky's fearmongering OpEd from May 25 LA Times:

Quote:
Arizona gun laws in L.A.? It could happen

Californians have a lot on the line in the next congressional debate about America’s gun laws. Two bills stacked with legislative sponsors — HB 38 in the House, SB 446 in the Senate — would override our state’s longstanding rules governing who is allowed to carry a concealed, loaded firearm in public. These bills, both called the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, would dictate that if a person can carry a concealed weapon in any state, that person could carry it everywhere in America. This should be a call to action for all Californians concerned about keeping their families safe.

Twelve states do not require any permit to carry hidden, loaded guns within their borders. Some states’ rules have been so ineffective as to allow felons to carry concealed weapons. Not so in California. Our laws require good cause for the issuance of a concealed weapon permit. ...

But if concealed carry reciprocity were the law of the land, all this would change. Unbelievably, the House version would allow an individual denied a permit in California to cross the border to a more permissive state, obtain a permit there, then return to California — with a new right to carry here.

In addition to jeopardizing public safety, concealed carry reciprocity would endanger the lives of law enforcement. The mere presence of more concealed weapons on California streets would make police work here much more hazardous. What’s more, if LAPD officers stopped someone with a loaded, concealed handgun, that person could claim to live in a state where permits weren’t necessary, and the officers would be unable to confirm whether it was true. Indeed, law enforcement leaders have warned that concealed carry reciprocity could turn otherwise routine encounters with non-residents into dangerous ones. Given our intensifying focus on the potential for homegrown terrorism, the last thing we need is to make it easier to carry concealed, loaded firearms across state lines.

Because concealed carry reciprocity poses grave risks, the National Law Enforcement Partnership to Prevent Gun Violence, including the Major Cities Chiefs Assn. and the International Assn. of Chiefs of Police, along with the Assn. of Prosecuting Attorneys, the leaders of Prosecutors Against Gun Violence and many other partners in law enforcement, have strongly opposed it.

<snip drivel which ignores American's 2nd A rights apply nationwide>

Why lawmakers in D.C. are acting this way would be something of a mystery but for the fact that concealed carry reciprocity has been a top priority of gun rights organizations such as the National Rifle Assn. Invigorated by the recent election, gun rights advocates deride what they see as an inconsistent “patchwork” of concealed carry laws across the nation.

If that were the real concern, though, Congress could take entirely different steps. Robust, national concealed carry standards similar to California’s would address the patchwork issue while protecting law enforcement officers and the public. Instead, concealed carry reciprocity defaults to the least stringent standards, with states like Arizona — where there are no universal background checks and residents can carry concealed weapons with no permit at all — dictating policy nationwide.

Finally, concealed carry reciprocity could damage our business community. Were great numbers of out-of-state visitors authorized to carry concealed guns in California, all sorts of venues — sports arenas, theme parks, commercial buildings — could be choked with metal detectors or other barriers installed by business owners legitimately concerned about their patrons’ safety.

Forcing concealed carry reciprocity is dangerous and undermines California’s gun laws. Lawmakers should find the courage to say no.
More at:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...525-story.html

All that outrages ol' Chucky makes me want to

Breitbart tears it apart at:
http://www.breitbart.com/california/...-charlie-beck/
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Last edited by Paladin; 06-05-2017 at 2:40 PM..
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Old 06-05-2017, 3:00 PM
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Every LEO that I know has shown great support for national reciprocity, it's the Chiefs of these large metropolis cities that are against NR to appease the mayors who hired them and to retain their role as chiefs. I ask how many criminals are already bypassing that law, and carrying most likely a stolen weapon with the "So called high capacity magazine" there hasn't been any metal detectors installed to stop the criminals!


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Old 06-05-2017, 3:45 PM
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Every LEO that I know has shown great support for national reciprocity, it's the Chiefs of these large metropolis cities that are against NR to appease the mayors who hired them and to retain their role as chiefs. I ask how many criminals are already bypassing that law, and carrying most likely a stolen weapon with the "So called high capacity magazine" there hasn't been any metal detectors installed to stop the criminals!


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Exactly, Police Chiefs are hired and fired by the City whereas Sheriffs are elected.
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Old 06-05-2017, 9:51 PM
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not going to happen in my life time.
sad this issue has just become a game of dodge-ball.
only going to be a political dodge-ball game till it dies of old age.
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Old 06-06-2017, 1:26 PM
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How can you tell when "Chucky the Butt Puppet" is lying?

Garcetti, and previously Villaragosa have their hand up his butt so far it makes his mouth move.

Quote:
Some states’ rules have been so ineffective as to allow felons to carry concealed weapons.
Strongly inferring that the felons are doing so legally in those states. Another blatant lie and against Federal Laws already.

Like all the illegals packing heat with impunity, because he claims LA is a Sanctuary City for Criminals.

When crime increases Chucky and his Leftist Masters answer is to shove criminals out the back door of the justice system as fast as they can. To make room for all the newly created previous LAC that they turned into criminals by denying their rights.
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Old 06-07-2017, 4:17 PM
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An interesting letter written to Representatives Richard Hudson, Justin Amash, and Trey Gowdy regarding constitutional theory and HR 38.
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Old 06-07-2017, 4:57 PM
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That letter was spot on, so hopefully the advice is taken and the verbiage is changed. The government and all its entities are a circus of BS, it is so far gone like our debt.
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Old 06-07-2017, 5:34 PM
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not going to happen in my life time.
sad this issue has just become a game of dodge-ball.
only going to be a political dodge-ball game till it dies of old age.
I would not bet against it ? No less than UCLA Adam Winkler said at the federalist society than if the "republicans" win the White House, national reciprocity will be the law of the land.
He gave several reasons why this would be horrible for Californians.
Of course we know only career big city thugs would be the only ones in danger.

Im thinking yeah this guy thinks some yahoo from Idaho looking like a square gets attacked and unloads with a 30rd clip and leaves his democrat tough guys in bad shape.
All this took place before the miracle election of the Fantastic Donald Trump!
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Old 06-07-2017, 6:59 PM
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That letter was spot on, so hopefully the advice is taken and the verbiage is changed. The government and all its entities are a circus of BS, it is so far gone like our debt.
I'm in favor of any verbiage that will help withstand legal scrutiny. The stronger, the better, for multiple defenses.
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