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  #81  
Old 03-08-2017, 1:46 PM
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Default Drew hangun, report to Sheriff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
I've posted on this a number of times, and also noted it to the Sac Sheriff CCW folks a couple of times. Here it is again:

From the Sac County License:
(Yeah, the license was only partially stamped and when I pointed it out to the deputy, he hand-wrote the rest. )

Sac Sheriff Policy Statement: (Page 2, First Paragraph, Fifth Bullet; https://www.sacsheriff.com/Pages/Org...res%201-14.pdf)


Anybody see a problem?


I decided a while back to go with the verbiage stamped on the license. Back when both license and website mandated advising even when not carrying, I advised EGPD after being stopped (radar) even though I wasn't carrying. That particular officer replied that he didn't consider the advisory necessary for him, but thanked me anyway. Since the change on the stamp was a deliberate change and is the most recent permutation of the whole thing, I'm going with that (should the situation ever be repeated).

I guess. He||, someone oughta write them a letter inquiring about the contradiction. Lemme know what they say, Dvrjon.

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  #82  
Old 03-08-2017, 1:57 PM
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OP, when this finally gets cleared up please send an email to the NRA's Rifleman magazine for their Armed Citizen page.
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  #83  
Old 03-09-2017, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Angrysnarf View Post
BG?
bad guy
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  #84  
Old 03-09-2017, 10:59 AM
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I dont mean to thread jack,but can anyone recommend a lawyer/attorney in the Sacramento/bay area for situations like this so everyone can have a reference. I seen one listed above.
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  #85  
Old 03-09-2017, 11:21 AM
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Wow, in for the story that'll hopefully be written later.

I realize OP no longer needs advice, but I just want to throw in my commentary for others.

So, reading the first post and the followup posts, it appears that OP immediately called 911 to report the incident, and gave a statement to the responding officers who were presumably from a different department than his IA. Then he was wondering if he should further report it to his IA. I don't think he has a legal obligation to do so, but I think we can all agree that his IA would probably want to know about this, and may not be thrilled with the idea of only hearing about it later from someone else who isn't the OP. So I think it's best for anyone in that scenario to be proactive about getting your side of the story out there, regardless of the law or IA policies.

One thing is certain, he definitely made the right decision calling 911 immediately. In a CCW scenario, you DO NOT EVER want to be the person that someone else calls 911 about! EVER! You have no control over what side of the story they're going to spew out, and they almost certainly don't have all the facts. You don't want the first responders getting their initial information from someone else, if you can avoid it. That will put you in a defensive position, where you're trying to refute the story that the cops heard from someone else, and might already believe.

This reminds me of a slightly off-topic discussion we had in my CCW class. I brought up this hypothetical scenario:

I'm hiking in the woods, all by myself, and suddenly a mountain lion jumps in front of me on the trail and starts growling at me. I draw my weapon, but before I can get a shot off, the lion scurries away back into the woods. Do I still need to call 911 as soon as I get the chance to?

The instructor's answer was, "Would you rather call 911 to report that you almost had to shoot a lion in self defense, or would you rather a stranger that you didn't know saw you, and didn't see the lion, call 911 to report a crazy guy in the woods waving a pistol around and shouting at nothing?"
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  #86  
Old 03-09-2017, 11:33 AM
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Bad Guys do not call cops, bluffing, but have to report, good luck with the process and paperwork.
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  #87  
Old 03-09-2017, 11:50 AM
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Any statement that is made is a part of "what you say can and will be used against you." Having an attorney review the statement before it is filed is money well spent. Otherwise, if not worded properly, it can and will be used if a complaint is filed by the prosecutor or the BG to support a charge of unauthorized use or assault. This is simply basic criminal law and has nothing to do with being poor or rich. However, if you can afford a gun, ammunition, training and the licensing process (say at least $600 and potentially a lot more), you had better put aside some money for either insurance or an attorney and consider it part of the licensing cost.
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  #88  
Old 03-11-2017, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk94044 View Post
Bad Guys do not call cops, bluffing, but have to report, good luck with the process and paperwork.
That is not correct; I've read reports where BG's have in fact called 911 claiming to be victims & it's caused problems for the true good guy / victim.
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  #89  
Old 03-11-2017, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Angrysnarf View Post
BG?


Bald Guy


Sent from my iPhone so typos to be expected.
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  #90  
Old 03-17-2017, 3:11 PM
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Dr Jones..... any new update?
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  #91  
Old 03-17-2017, 7:17 PM
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Bald Guy


Sent from my iPhone so typos to be expected.
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  #92  
Old 03-22-2017, 6:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Trriemferent View Post
Dr Jones..... any new update?

Thanks for asking; no, I haven't heard back from the Sheriff.

I've been given no indication as to when or if I might expect any response.

I'm not sure if it would be prudent to discuss any details here or not...
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  #93  
Old 03-22-2017, 8:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA View Post
I'm not sure if it would be prudent to discuss any details here or not...
Probably of NO benefit (to you) to discuss here.
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  #94  
Old 03-22-2017, 8:22 AM
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I wouldn't until after its over so you don't incriminate yourself.

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  #95  
Old 03-22-2017, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA View Post
I'm not sure if it would be prudent to discuss any details here or not...
If you're not sure, then it isn't.
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  #96  
Old 03-22-2017, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lawaia View Post
Probably of NO benefit (to you) to discuss here.
Yep.

Maybe you can after the case is squared away, just be sure to ask your lawyer first (if you have one)
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  #97  
Old 03-23-2017, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk94044 View Post
Bad Guys do not call cops...
That's common sense, but;

1) A MWAG call could be placed anonymously, and

2) In present-day California, why the hell would a BG have to fear the cops?
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  #98  
Old 03-23-2017, 12:12 PM
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What is IA?

Glad you are OK OP.
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  #99  
Old 03-23-2017, 12:14 PM
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What is IA?

Glad you are OK OP.
Issuing Agency.
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  #100  
Old 03-23-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ugly Hombre View Post
What is IA?

Glad you are OK OP.
Issuing Agency. In this context it's the county sheriff that issues our CCW permit.
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  #101  
Old 03-23-2017, 1:47 PM
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Hoping to hear a good outcome from this encounter.
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  #102  
Old 03-27-2017, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dk94044 View Post
Bad Guys do not call cops, bluffing, but have to report, good luck with the process and paperwork.
There is a saying CCW holders should remember: Last to call, first to jail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT5weOWnaZ4

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  #103  
Old 04-28-2017, 10:38 AM
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What happened?
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  #104  
Old 04-28-2017, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Good attorney in Sac is Adam Richards
http://www.rwslaw.com/attorneys/attorneys-2/


^^^ ditto
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  #105  
Old 04-28-2017, 5:04 PM
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What happened?
Maybe:

Bad guy comes up and says give me your cash. You whip out the gun and shove it up his jawbone. "Let me splatter your brains and end your misery". Instead of cash.

"Make my day" kinda thing?
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  #106  
Old 04-28-2017, 5:15 PM
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I'm hoping to hear the details, for educational purposes.
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  #107  
Old 04-28-2017, 6:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA View Post
Correct. This is why I want some help in crafting my statement.

I'd MUCH rather spend a few hundred bucks for 1-2 hours of an attorney's time now, than risk incriminating myself or doing anything other than going largely unnoticed.

I of course do not believe I did anything wrong at all; I'm fairly proud of how I handled the situation, but still....I'm not a lawyer......

Any referrals other than Michel & Co?
I would draft a statement to my attorney and have the attorney report on my behalf to any law enforcement that required a report.
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  #108  
Old 05-02-2017, 9:51 AM
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Waiting for the outcome of this.

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  #109  
Old 05-18-2017, 5:51 AM
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I would draft a statement to my attorney and have the attorney report on my behalf to any law enforcement that required a report.

He specifically and purposely did NOT want to do that; he said that raises too much suspicion in the Sheriff's dept.

If this truly is a "non-incident" meaning no shots were fired, nobody was hurt or killed, etc, then he said it would draw attention & raise eyebrows.
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  #110  
Old 05-18-2017, 7:18 AM
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3 months after the OP and we're still here?

Your statement was submitted on 2/25.

I find it difficult to believe that, 3 months after receiving a letter that says, "I pulled a gun on a guy," Sac Sheriff has not had some definitive contact with you.
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  #111  
Old 05-18-2017, 7:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Wow, in for the story that'll hopefully be written later.

I realize OP no longer needs advice, but I just want to throw in my commentary for others.

So, reading the first post and the followup posts, it appears that OP immediately called 911 to report the incident, and gave a statement to the responding officers who were presumably from a different department than his IA. Then he was wondering if he should further report it to his IA. I don't think he has a legal obligation to do so, but I think we can all agree that his IA would probably want to know about this, and may not be thrilled with the idea of only hearing about it later from someone else who isn't the OP. So I think it's best for anyone in that scenario to be proactive about getting your side of the story out there, regardless of the law or IA policies.

One thing is certain, he definitely made the right decision calling 911 immediately. In a CCW scenario, you DO NOT EVER want to be the person that someone else calls 911 about! EVER! You have no control over what side of the story they're going to spew out, and they almost certainly don't have all the facts. You don't want the first responders getting their initial information from someone else, if you can avoid it. That will put you in a defensive position, where you're trying to refute the story that the cops heard from someone else, and might already believe.

This reminds me of a slightly off-topic discussion we had in my CCW class. I brought up this hypothetical scenario:

I'm hiking in the woods, all by myself, and suddenly a mountain lion jumps in front of me on the trail and starts growling at me. I draw my weapon, but before I can get a shot off, the lion scurries away back into the woods. Do I still need to call 911 as soon as I get the chance to?

The instructor's answer was, "Would you rather call 911 to report that you almost had to shoot a lion in self defense, or would you rather a stranger that you didn't know saw you, and didn't see the lion, call 911 to report a crazy guy in the woods waving a pistol around and shouting at nothing?"
Well, If you were in my CCW class, I would have laughed at you for that scenario. The fact is that you will never see a mountain lion that is going to attack you. They are ambush predators so, if one jumps out in front of you and growls (LOL), it would be a warning and you should just head that warning and slowly back off while making yourself as large as possible. There would be no reason to shoot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
3 months after the OP and we're still here?

Your statement was submitted on 2/25.

I find it difficult to believe that, 3 months after receiving a letter that says, "I pulled a gun on a guy," Sac Sheriff has not had some definitive contact with you.
Why? He didn't do anything wrong or illegal. He already made his statement and it's probably a closed case at this point.
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  #112  
Old 05-18-2017, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Why? He didn't do anything wrong or illegal. He already made his statement and it's probably a closed case at this point.
And, the Sheriff would have responded in some way by now, yes?

But the OP is still talking about process, not outcome.
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Old 05-18-2017, 7:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
And, the Sheriff would have responded in some way by now, yes?

But the OP is still talking about process, not outcome.
The Sheriff's Dept. did respond in some way. I'm sure they received and reviewed the statement and responded by doing what they felt appropriate. The statement must have been written well enough that it answered any questions they may have had so the responded with no further action.
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  #114  
Old 05-18-2017, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
The Sheriff's Dept. did respond in some way. I'm sure they received and reviewed the statement and responded by doing what they felt appropriate. The statement must have been written well enough that it answered any questions they may have had so the responded with no further action.
The Ventura County view of Sacramento bureaucracy seems a bit cloudy.

Here in Sacramento County, it's clear that governmental agencies don't work that way. Especially enforcement agencies, and more especially the Sac Sheriff's CCW program. Open criticism of the program last year resulted in a tightened scrutiny of issuance/retention, so it seems unlikely the SSD would simply file the issue without feedback to the license holder. Something as simple as, "Thanks, we got your report."

But, in the end, the only one who knows how this came out (or is progressing) is the OP. And, as I noted, his input is about process, not outcome.
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  #115  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
3 months after the OP and we're still here?

Your statement was submitted on 2/25.

I find it difficult to believe that, 3 months after receiving a letter that says, "I pulled a gun on a guy," Sac Sheriff has not had some definitive contact with you.

Have you ever gone through a situation like this?

What's been the experiences of others and do other issuing agencies in CA require reporting of any & all incidents involving use of a CCW firearm?

In any case, I still have not heard a peep from my IA.

I'm going to find out if its OK if I share any details here.
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  #116  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
The Sheriff's Dept. did respond in some way. I'm sure they received and reviewed the statement and responded by doing what they felt appropriate. The statement must have been written well enough that it answered any questions they may have had so the responded with no further action.

Nope, I have not heard a peep from them.

I'm inquiring as to whether I may, and whether it's advisable, to share any details of my experience here.
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Old 05-19-2017, 6:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA View Post
Have you ever gone through a situation like this?

What's been the experiences of others and do other issuing agencies in CA require reporting of any & all incidents involving use of a CCW firearm?

In any case, I still have not heard a peep from my IA.

I'm going to find out if its OK if I share any details here.
Nope, but I have engaged Sac Sheriff on other issues, and found them to be extremely responsive. That's why it's surprising to me that this is open-ended. (Also, as a career bureaucrat, I hated unclosed actions. They always had a habit of popping up later and screwing stuff up.)

Best.
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  #118  
Old 05-19-2017, 6:32 AM
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Nope, but I have engaged Sac Sheriff on other issues, and found them to be extremely responsive. That's why it's surprising to me that this is open-ended. (Also, as a career bureaucrat, I hated unclosed actions. They always had a habit of popping up later and screwing stuff up.)

Best.

Gotcha. That makes sense. I'm also surprised I didn't get any response whatsoever... oh well...
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  #119  
Old 05-19-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA View Post
Nope, I have not heard a peep from them.

I'm inquiring as to whether I may, and whether it's advisable, to share any details of my experience here.
No response is a response.
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  #120  
Old 05-20-2017, 6:22 AM
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No response is a response.
This.

You're fine. They would have pulled your permit immediately if you weren't OK.
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