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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-26-2010, 2:18 PM
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Default Help! My Friend Was Denied by the DOJ...

Hello Calguns hive mind,

I have a friend who was recently denied by the DOJ when he tried to buy a stripped lower receiver. A few years ago, he was involved in an altercation at a bar in which he was picked up and thrown head-first into the ground and knocked unconscious. The bar management says that he picked up one of those poles that holds up the velvet rope (the kind you see at movie theaters) and swung it at one of the bouncers. He denies this and I believe him (I did not witness the fight), but the bar charged him with Assault with a Deadly Weapon.

Apparently the prosecution couldn't prove that my friend actually attacked the bouncer, so they worked out a deal where he would serve 1 year of probation and the bar would drop the charges against him. My friend completed the probation quite some time ago and so there should be no charge on his record, let alone a conviction for anything.

What can he do to get this cleared up? He's pretty bummed out because he already bought a sweet BCM midlength upper and everything else he needs to build an OLL-based AR15. Does he need to lawyer up or is there anything else he can do? Thanks in advance everyone!
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2010, 2:26 PM
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There are people more qualified to answer this question, but he should probably call up the DOJ and get an explanation and if he get an answer that isn't "sorry, our mistake", I would say he should get himself a lawyer.
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2010, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
so they worked out a deal where he would serve 1 year of probation and the bar would drop the charges against him.
So he pled guilty to something... otherwise why would he receive a term of probation. If successful completion of that probationary period was to result in a conditional dismissal and an expungement, he likely needs to get his attorney to johnny back into court and get that taken care of. In the meantime he likely still has a conviction for assault of some type on his sheet, which will prohibit him.

Nothing happens automatically with government... unless, of course, they are taking your money from you.
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Old 03-26-2010, 2:31 PM
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Lawyer up.
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  #5  
Old 03-26-2010, 2:31 PM
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What in the.... You can get denied to buy a gun because of a barfight? You guys gonna tell me parking tickets too? Now I gotta worry about a past that a security clearance has no problem with, but the DOJ will? That's friggin messed up. Is that just here in CA or the whole USA?
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Old 03-26-2010, 2:37 PM
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simple assault = 10 years no guns as do some other misdo's

bet he plead no contest to a 240 PC or the like

IMHO
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Old 03-26-2010, 2:44 PM
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Sounds like he plead down to 240/242 for a year of informal probation. That would trigger a 10-year prohibition.

Get on the superior court website and see what pops up
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Old 03-26-2010, 2:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilligaffrn View Post
simple assault = 10 years no guns as do some other misdo's

bet he plead no contest to a 240 PC or the like

IMHO
+10,000

1 year probation would be a misdemeanor conviction. Without a conviction, there's no probation.
The bar probably pressed charges as felony assault with a deadly weapon. He probably plead guilty to simple assault assuming that it would make everything go away... all he did was keep himself from being a felon and kept himself out of prison.

I'm betting he had a public defender... it worse, was representing himself.
Rather than accepting simple assault, he should have pushed for a conviction on "disturbing the peace" or "excessive noise", both of which are very commonly accepted alternatives in plea deals to felony assault when the prosecution has a weak case.

But that's water under the bridge, and unless he can get the conviction expunged, he's a prohibited person.
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Old 03-26-2010, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
+10,000

1 year probation would be a misdemeanor conviction. Without a conviction, there's no probation.
The bar probably pressed charges as felony assault with a deadly weapon. He probably plead guilty to simple assault assuming that it would make everything go away... all he did was keep himself from being a felon and kept himself out of prison.

I'm betting he had a public defender... it worse, was representing himself.
Rather than accepting simple assault, he should have pushed for a conviction on "disturbing the peace" or "excessive noise", both of which are very commonly accepted alternatives in plea deals to felony assault when the prosecution has a weak case.

But that's water under the bridge, and unless he can get the conviction expunged, he's a prohibited person.
Yep. For a bar fight he should have/could have plead down to disturbing the peace as an ifraction.
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Old 03-26-2010, 2:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Btown View Post
What in the.... You can get denied to buy a gun because of a barfight? You guys gonna tell me parking tickets too? Now I gotta worry about a past that a security clearance has no problem with, but the DOJ will? That's friggin messed up. Is that just here in CA or the whole USA?
There are people in this state who would be happy if you became a prohibited person because you were seen walking down the sidewalk in front of a bar.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 03-26-2010, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Btown View Post
What in the.... You can get denied to buy a gun because of a barfight?
Yep.

I don't spend much time in bars. When i do go, I do not drink to excess and start fights. If your idea of a good time is rocking the TapouT shirt in El Torito on UFC fight night then trying to pick fights with the staff and other customers you may lose your gun rights for a while.
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Old 03-26-2010, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
There are people in this state who would be happy if you became a prohibited person because you were seen walking down the sidewalk in front of a bar.

Yep. In fact, plenty of people in this state would just as soon prohibit firearm ownership, period. For no reason other than that's how they'd like the socialist utopia to be.

DiFi comes to mind. "Give 'em up Mr and Mrs. America."

Yeah, if only she had the 51 votes.

As far as the OP, too bad your friend didn't have a better lawyer.
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Old 03-26-2010, 3:40 PM
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Dang...that's not good news. I will advise him to talk to a lawyer. Thanks guys. Let me know if you can think of anything else.
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Old 03-26-2010, 7:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Yep.

I don't spend much time in bars. When i do go, I do not drink to excess and start fights. If your idea of a good time is rocking the TapouT shirt in El Torito on UFC fight night then trying to pick fights with the staff and other customers you may lose your gun rights for a while.
Glad I got that out of my system at Ft. Bragg/Fayettenam (Fayetteville, NC). Nothing like Paratroopers vs. The Legs on Friday nights.
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Old 03-26-2010, 7:49 PM
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Old 03-26-2010, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Spitfire75 View Post
My friend completed the probation quite some time ago and so there should be no charge on his record, let alone a conviction for anything.
He couldn't have been sentenced to probation without being convicted of an actual crime. my guess is that he just agreed to plea guilty or no contest to a much lesser crime than 245 PC. But nonetheless did actually get convicted of some misdemeanor violent crime which im sure brought the red flag in his DROS.
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Old 03-26-2010, 7:58 PM
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If he was indeed convicted of a lesser misdemeanor violent crime, is he pretty much SOL for the next 10 years? Is there anything that even a lawyer could do if this is the case?
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Old 03-26-2010, 8:02 PM
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What's ironic is that simple assault or battery is not even a crime of moral turpitude, i.e, it does not evince a willingness to do evil.

Furthermore, the law defines even the least offensive touching as a battery.

So a simple shove or hip check to get in front of a fellow shopper in a grocery line qualifies as a battery. In CA, that triggers a 10-year suspension of your 2A rights.

I hope that after McDonald this arbitrary prohibition is smartly challenged.
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Old 03-26-2010, 8:06 PM
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Ah crap. Ok, well I guess I better talk to him and ask him for the nitty gritty details of his case. Thanks again guys.
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