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  #1  
Old 07-31-2018, 7:35 PM
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Default Ak74 featureless build using a saiga sporter stock

I just came across the scr lower for the ar plateform and then the thought occurred to me. Rather than run a shark grip on my ak74 I could use a saiga sporter stock to achieve a similar featureless build. Now I don't need a debate on why that might be a bad idea. Rather I am strugling to find a resource outlining the process and parts one would need to move the fire control group backwards to more ergonomically work better with the saiga stock.

Any ideas or recommendations on where I should look for supporting resources

Danny
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:49 PM
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You would need all the parts that are typically removed during a saiga conversion.
Then you need to drill the extra 5 holes in the receiver and rivet the saiga triggerguard plate on.
The trickiest part will be making the two special fire control group pivot pins that are riveted into the reciever as these always get drilled out when people convert their saiga's.
I suppose you could use the drilled out ones and tap the drilled-out end for screws that would hold them in the reciever.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:52 PM
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The Saiga trigger is not optimal

I don’t know if the fin on an AK - being awkward- is better / worse choice than the stock Saiga
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Old 08-01-2018, 5:34 AM
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Apex has most the parts you would need for this
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Old 08-01-2018, 6:54 AM
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Thank you so much the feedback. I'll post back on my progress
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Old 08-01-2018, 7:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danito View Post
I just came across the scr lower for the ar plateform and then the thought occurred to me. Rather than run a shark grip on my ak74 I could use a saiga sporter stock to achieve a similar featureless build. Now I don't need a debate on why that might be a bad idea. Rather I am strugling to find a resource outlining the process and parts one would need to move the fire control group backwards to more ergonomically work better with the saiga stock.

Any ideas or recommendations on where I should look for supporting resources

Danny
The fire control group doesn’t move back. There is an extra set of levers and a different trigger that gets installed and that moves the lever backwards that is your new trigger.
Yeah it can be done but there are better ways to make an AK featureless. The big issue is how out of balance the rifle will become with all that weight forward shift. The balance, the feel sucks.

Last edited by kcstott; 08-01-2018 at 3:45 PM..
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Old 08-01-2018, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
The Saiga trigger is not optimal

I donít know if the fin on an AK - being awkward- is better / worse choice than the stock Saiga
I don't need a "pistol" grip and the fin grip approach doesn't do it for me "awkward' is again the term I would use, but I guess it works some folks.

From my reading it does look the Saiga triggers are not know to be the best, but it looking for parts I have seen after market triggers that claim to address this short coming?
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Old 08-01-2018, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
The fire control group doesnít move back. There is an extra set of levers and a different trigger that gets installed and that moves the lever backwards that is you new trigger.
Yeah it can be done but there are better ways to make an AK featureless. The big issues is how out of balance the rifle will become with all that weight forward shift. The balance, the feel sucks.
As they say "you don't know what you don't know" Thank you for the explanation. This is exactly the short of stuff I am trying to figure out.

The term "better" is very subjective and largely outside of the scope of my post intent. But thank for the feed back
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danito View Post
I don't need a "pistol" grip and the fin grip approach doesn't do it for me "awkward' is again the term I would use, but I guess it works some folks.
An otherwise normal AK can be used without the pistol grip.
Just remove your pistol grip and go try it.
It works fine.

Your support hand holds the rifle against your shoulder.
The thumb of your firing hand will rest against the back of the triggerguard and your trigger finger pulls the trigger.

A fixed stock AK with a plain muzzle, muzzle nut or muzzle brake and no pistol grip is featureless.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:32 AM
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Thanks
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Old 08-03-2018, 2:14 PM
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I have seen in some photos a plate that the trigger housing sits on top of on a saiga rifle.It looks like it's meant to cover the bottom of the receiver orginal trigger holes. Does this part have an official name.
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Old 08-03-2018, 4:43 PM
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Its spot welded and riveted to the trigger guard. So I would just call it the “trigger guard”
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Old 08-03-2018, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danito View Post
I have seen in some photos a plate that the trigger housing sits on top of on a saiga rifle.It looks like it's meant to cover the bottom of the receiver orginal trigger holes. Does this part have an official name.
That IS the Saiga triggerguard.
The triggerguard has a bulged plate spot welded to it.
The plate gets riveted to the receiver and covers the trigger hole.
The bulge is to clear the part that sits where an AK trigger would.
Then there is a toggle piece that acts on the block with the hammer hooks and the Saiga trigger that hangs out of the receiver back where a standard AK has itís pistol grip nut.
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Old 08-05-2018, 4:03 PM
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I believe I sourced all the parts I need for the conversion. But now I am having some trouble verifing the correct dimensions for the trigger pin locations.

I found this information on another forum?

The rear hole is 1.283" from the rear of the receiver, this is the center of the hole BTW. The distance between the 2 holes is .655" center to center. The holes are .319" from the bottom of the receiver to the center of the hole.

Is this information published somewhere ? Or could someone share with me their saiga trigger pin dimensions for reference.

Thanks
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2018, 9:07 PM
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I have welded up dozens of sets of Saiga pin holes, but it never dawned on me to measure where they are so that I could drill them for someone.

I can at least tell you that they are 4mm holes.
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Old 08-06-2018, 3:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I have welded up dozens of sets of Saiga pin holes, but it never dawned on me to measure where they are so that I could drill them for someone.

I can at least tell you that they are 4mm holes.
I was thinking the same thing. I don't know how many set of saiga hole I welded up to sand flat and repark. only to not give a damn where the holes were because no one in there right mind was going to use them,

Yet here we are.
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Old 08-06-2018, 8:12 AM
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Well guys just leave it to me to ask the ask question that no one really wants to know - lol

I spent a few hours Sunday searching the interweb to try and cross reference saiga fcg hole placement dimensions with no further luck . I was hoping to find a template or schematic referencing the trigger hole placement.

I took the dimensions I did find and scribed them on blank receiver, from a visual perspective it looks like it could right as compared to pictures I have seen (reasonable close) ? But then again close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades , so I'll keep looking

thanks for the Q/A ar15barrels, kcstott
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Old 08-07-2018, 5:37 PM
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So it looks like the measurements for the saiga fcg might be correct. I did a rough measurement using a photo measuring app and used the receiver height as the reference. My calculation look very close , but not knowing the tolerances is still a problem but gets me closer.
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File Type: jpg Screenshot_20180807-182326.jpg (10.4 KB, 13 views)
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Old 08-07-2018, 6:06 PM
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Which trigger are you using? The 7.62 trigger is a multilink-piece-of-junk... you really should avoid it.

I've heard rumors that the one piece trigger from the bigger saigas (.308win etc.) can be used, but it can be hard to find those parts, and they have their own idiosyncracies-- very long creep, and an unusual back-and-up pull.

If you're doing this from scratch, rather than just restoring a Saiga, might want to look into that.

akfiles.com forum might also be a better resource to ask, given what you're doing.
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Old 08-10-2018, 4:51 AM
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Iím a newbie to aks and I am trying to do the same thing and just started my research the last few days. So I just wanted to confirm the obvious from this discussion that finding a receiver per the original Saiga sporter design is out of the question and we gotta use an standard ak pattern receiver and make all the right cuts? Sorry for my lack of knowledge but what are the 5 holes for that ar15barrels was mentioning and what are the lever parts called that are needed for a rear positioned trigger that kcstott was talking about? This is my first calguns post and Iíd appreciate any help since Iíll be doing the same exact project at the same time. Thanks!
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Old 08-10-2018, 5:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentZero000 View Post
Iím a newbie to aks and I am trying to do the same thing and just started my research the last few days. So I just wanted to confirm the obvious from this discussion that finding a receiver per the original Saiga sporter design is out of the question and we gotta use an standard ak pattern receiver and make all the right cuts? Sorry for my lack of knowledge but what are the 5 holes for that ar15barrels was mentioning and what are the lever parts called that are needed for a rear positioned trigger that kcstott was talking about? This is my first calguns post and Iíd appreciate any help since Iíll be doing the same exact project at the same time. Thanks!
Put a gun on the grip and be done
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Old 08-10-2018, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
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Put a gun on the grip and be done
It might be easier to put a grip on the gun and be done...
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Old 08-10-2018, 9:18 AM
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Quote:
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I just wanted to confirm the obvious from this discussion that finding a receiver per the original Saiga sporter design is out of the question and we gotta use an standard ak pattern receiver and make all the right cuts?
That's correct.

There is no aftermarket Saiga receivers.

If you want a saiga, you simply buy one that's done.
If you want an AK, you can buy a done one, or get a saiga and convert it to an AK, but this thread is the first time I have heard of someone wanting to make an AK into a Saiga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentZero000 View Post
Sorry for my lack of knowledge but what are the 5 holes for that ar15barrels was mentioning
4 holes are for the extra fire control parts.
1 is for the buttstock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentZero000 View Post
what are the lever parts called that are needed for a rear positioned trigger that kcstott was talking about?
Those are the extra fire control linkage parts that a Saiga uses to create a trigger further to the rear.


The parts are the 4 red X parts on the right side of this picture:
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Old 08-10-2018, 10:17 AM
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Just for clarity, I am going in reverse. The rifle currently has a pistol grip (no issues there other than i don't like the ergonomics of a fin grip) I am opting to go completely featureless ,so I am going the sporter stock route with a muzzle break. The rifle was built on a generic AKM receiver. So the receiver doesn't have the holes for the saiga trigger pin or transfer bar. I think I have figured out the hole placement through research and measuring the stock parts (hopefully it works out - lol )

I also found a utube video outlining how to use the tapco G2 trigger group in a saiga configuration using the transfer bar and trigger. So I believe the end result will have a decent trigger.

Last edited by danito; 08-10-2018 at 10:18 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-10-2018, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danito View Post
I also found a utube video outlining how to use the tapco G2 trigger group in a saiga configuration using the transfer bar and trigger. So I believe the end result will have a decent trigger.
The Russian parts actually give a better trigger in an AK configuration than the Tapco parts do.
The reason for the tapco parts is only for 922r compliance.

The Saiga double linkage is what makes the trigger so bad.
All those extra parts pivoting and rubbing each other...

I have not seen what they would have you do to put a tapco into a saiga configuration, but I would guess is involves cutting off the trigger shoe so you can put it where the stock part was.

The stock part will likely give you a better trigger than substituting in the Tapco part because the stock part was made better.
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:04 AM
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This is good information ,thanks
The only thing I will add is that APEX sells the saiga fire control group parts needed for this conversion.
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danito View Post
The only thing I will add is that APEX sells the saiga fire control group parts needed for this conversion.
Hopefully they don't send you this parts set:




It's missing one of the pins completely.
The other pin has been drilled out so about the only way you could use it would be to weld it into the reciever.
At least it's got an extra bolt catch though.
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:09 PM
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Rather than use the used trigger pins could you use NEW center support rivets for this purpose ? It looks like it might be very very close in diameter to the eye. But I suspect there is a difference ?
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Old 08-10-2018, 2:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The Russian parts actually give a better trigger in an AK configuration than the Tapco parts do.
The reason for the tapco parts is only for 922r compliance.

The Saiga double linkage is what makes the trigger so bad.
All those extra parts pivoting and rubbing each other...

I have not seen what they would have you do to put a tapco into a saiga configuration, but I would guess is involves cutting off the trigger shoe so you can put it where the stock part was.

The stock part will likely give you a better trigger than substituting in the Tapco part because the stock part was made better.
That was the sexiest way Iíve ever heard a fcg orgy described.
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Old 08-10-2018, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
That's correct.

There is no aftermarket Saiga receivers.

If you want a saiga, you simply buy one that's done.
If you want an AK, you can buy a done one, or get a saiga and convert it to an AK, but this thread is the first time I have heard of someone wanting to make an AK into a Saiga.



4 holes are for the extra fire control parts.
1 is for the buttstock.



Those are the extra fire control linkage parts that a Saiga uses to create a trigger further to the rear.


The parts are the 4 red X parts on the right side of this picture:
Also, thank you for the immensely helpful expertise. No doubt other people thinking of doing this too with the aw laws up now will find your answers helpful.
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Old 08-11-2018, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danito View Post
Rather than use the used trigger pins could you use NEW center support rivets for this purpose ? It looks like it might be very very close in diameter to the eye.
Too small.
Too soft.
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