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  #1  
Old 08-08-2018, 9:07 PM
pl411 pl411 is offline
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Default Hunting Lease Value & Terms

I am helping a friend set the terms and value for a hunting lease on California property he controls. He already has numerous interested parties and now needs to determine a fair price and terms. He wants long term and high quality folks and is willing to take less for that. And no this is not a sly attempt to solicit offers because he will only lease it to folks he knows. It is a cattle ranch that is about 5000 acres. It is near Corning and west of the 5 - so about 3 hours from the SF area to the property. I have shot hogs, Turkey, deer, squirrels, rabbits and coyotes on it. Hogs,
Turkey and coyote are plentiful. You can easily spot a doe but it is hard to find a decent buck (but I have seen a few). I have seen bear and bobcats. It has a lot of ponds with good bass and some ducks in them. There are no structures on the property but a few spots for RVs. Ideally it would be leased to only 1-4 hunters. What do you think the lease is worth (10k,40k,..?) and if you were the owner what terms/limits would you include? I know precise values require more details but my post is already long enough. Thank you for the help.


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Old 08-09-2018, 8:19 AM
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Consider what a hunter can pay for a guided hunt on private property in that area;

* About $600-$800 for a pig hunt, where predators can be shot for free.

* About $1500-$3000 for a deer hunt, where predators can be shot for free.

* About $700-$1200 for a turkey hunt

* About $200-$300 for a quail hunt

On properties that allow self-guided hunts, the rates are even cheaper (sometimes much cheaper).

As you can see, an individual can pay for fully guided hunts on great private properties and bag all of these animals for about $5000. That fact that your property does not contain a population of mature bucks makes it even less appealing.

Now, most property owners lease hunting rights to guides, or guide services. This ensures that hunters are supervised on the ranch for liability reasons, hunters follow ranch rules, hunters sign all the appropriate waivers, no unauthorized persons are on the ranch, and that all applicable hunting laws are followed. The guide that leases hunting rights on the land will then sell hunts on the property to the public and profit from those hunts. The drawback to this, is that if the property owner and ranch staff start hunting out the property on their own or improperly manage the land, no guide will want to lease hunting rights from you. There are many ranches in Cali that guides will not touch because of this.
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Old 08-09-2018, 8:24 AM
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We lease a ton of land in the valley for upland and waterfowl so I could help with that. As for big game land, it varies wildly. I know guys who lease pig ground, occasional deer under 100 pounds, and they're at $5 acre. I've seen ground go in the Hollister hills for $25 acre, but there are guides using it as income property.
The best bet is to find a reputable guide service that he can develop a relationship with. This usually means there are property improvements done at the lessee's expense as an offset to cost or for better terms. In our case, we finance the gates, securing the properties, blinds, road improvements and sometimes water delivery. This typically means a long term lease for the purpose of a management goal.
Second, what are the owners long term goals for the property? He may end up with no game animals by leasing to the wrong persons, or worse yet, illegal activity that no lease terms get owner protection from...

Just my $.02
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Old 08-09-2018, 1:34 PM
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Desert Dog hit it on the head. Another key factor would be what type of property is adjacent to your friends? Is it hunted.....hunted hard? You said cattle ranch. Are there cattle on the property full or part time? Is it flat or is there rolling hills and areas for game to hid? Are others (family) allowed to hunt on the property along with the leasing party? The problem with leased property is that if the animals are drawn off by a neighbor who hunts or for other reasons, the property could be worthless. I hear mixed messages from friends who lease hunting property. Most try it once.
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Old 08-09-2018, 4:06 PM
pl411 pl411 is offline
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Default Hunting Lease Value & Terms

I appreciate the advice. I donít think you can compare guided hunts. I go to this ranch several times per year for 3-4 days with my toy hauler, Polaris ranger and friends, and hunt and fish when, where and how we want. That is worth more to me than a guided hunt and it seems other feel the same way as many are offering $7500 to $10k for a spot on the lease (which is not good for me as I had it pretty much for myself for years). But I want to help my buddy do this right and for him am more concerned about terms than pricing. Someone raised the issue of folks wiping it out by over hunting and the hunting (which is very good now) going downhill. That and fires are likely our biggest concerns, but would appreciate hearing potential terms from those of you who likely have more experience on this than me. For instance, should we allow each member to pig hunt every year as there seems to be plenty of hogs but limit deer hunting some way ( one deer per year or every other year)? What are terms you would include if leasing 5k of good hunting land to people. My buddy is a hardworking cowboy who does things on a handshake and my wife and I have concerns that people are going to take advantage of this opportunity.


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Old 08-09-2018, 4:26 PM
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Ah i ee it is Tehama county so draw for does.. What is hog success rate? What is terrain. oaks rolling hills,how densely brushed. Any crops nearby to draw game to? Any guided hunts in that area to compare to? Is it licensed under dfw game management to issue tags?

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Old 08-09-2018, 4:35 PM
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I'm curious how you're going to allow a doe per year?
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Old 08-09-2018, 4:36 PM
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The land I lease sets a firm number on game harvested. All game is logged on the sign in sheet. All members must sign in and out. If it’s not managed properly it WILL be completely shot out.

If he’s thinking only 4 guys I’d say find one wealthy one instead.
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Old 08-09-2018, 4:48 PM
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The land has value because of the animals on it. Your friend should make sure it stays that way. I’d have a trusted guide bring hunters on to the property to hunt it. The owner and guide can figure out the rules.
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Old 08-09-2018, 4:57 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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W are setting up a hunting lease/ club east of El paso for dove, duck and quail and we might allow hog hunting. It is 1800 acres with 200 acres in ponds next to RioGrande. We have 250 acres in crops so far and are leveling and discing more every month. That should bring the hogs and some deer in. Tons of quail on property.
Ah now I see you are in Tehama county north of sacramento so it is a draw for doe tags. Not convenient to so cal so good luck. We just got burned out in the Carr fire entire ranch torched. We are near to Vaderspade.

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Old 08-09-2018, 5:02 PM
NATEWA NATEWA is online now
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Definitely need locks and video camera/cellular game cameras. You may want to consult a wildlife biologist. He will help with managing the property and advise you on how many animals can be harvested.
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Old 08-09-2018, 5:24 PM
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Spyder,

Why are you curious of how we will allow a doe per year? That assumes they have tags as one obvious term will be complying with all laws. I have only hunted in California for about 5 years so let me know if there is something I am missing. Thank you.


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Old 08-09-2018, 5:26 PM
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On the video cameras, are there any recommendations for brands and equipment if we are talking about something beyond basic game cams? The cell reception is non-existent in most areas.


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Old 08-09-2018, 5:27 PM
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By the way, this is B zone.


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Old 08-09-2018, 5:31 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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Yes I just saw that and amended my questions. So what is amount of doe tags drawn in area.
Vaderspade is the game cam expert up there contact him

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Old 08-09-2018, 5:47 PM
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Vaderspade has some cool pics!

https://www.advancedhunter.com/best-...trail-cameras/
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Old 08-09-2018, 5:52 PM
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Check this out. Curious if there is a way connect this to battery and solar charger?

https://www.arlo.com/en-us/products/...o/default.aspx
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Old 08-09-2018, 5:53 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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FYI There were no doe tags issued by ca dfw or filled in any of the B zones in 2017. B1 had a 14% success rate for bucks in 2017.
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Old 08-09-2018, 6:43 PM
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This is helpful information. As you can tell, I donít know much about deer hunting in California or land management. That is why I am asking for help. I did shoot one buck on the property a few years ago when hog and unable to resist the shot but have shot many hogs and know that species much better. I actually have purposely controlled my trigger finger and not shoot deer on the property to improve the populaion. So would you impose an antler or other limit on bucks or is that useless if you limit membership to 3-4. Some mentioned the impact of deer going to and from adjacent ranches. Given that should we be less concerned about limiting deer hunting. By the way, perhaps because I donít hunt deer much and am there a lot I pretty much can predict where the deer will be and they seem to be the same ones. So it seems the same deer are staying on the property despite a good amount of hog hunting not too far off from the deer spots. At any rate, I appreciate the help and this sharing of knowledge is one of the great things about this forum. While my buddy and I can no longer afford to keep it to ourselves, we just donít want to mess this property up by opening it to others without proper rules.



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Old 08-09-2018, 7:32 PM
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Pl411, that explains some. Very doubtful any doe tags will be available for that area. Doe tags are very rare in CA and pretty much only on special limited hunts and youth hunts, but only a few.
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Old 08-09-2018, 7:34 PM
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Taking a buck or two off the property every year won't affect population at all, and will increase the $ value.

I have no clue on trespass fees/hunt club stuff but I'm constantly thinking liability and insurance...in my opinion, it would be mandatory for the owner.
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Old 08-10-2018, 4:08 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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Thanks for clarifying the doe nonsense. That was a red flag in your OP to us that have hunted that area. So lease does not offer any doe hunts unless tags grantedby dfw. Need an assesment of game populations using trail cams and maybe biologist. What quail and turkeys on property?
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Old 08-10-2018, 7:49 AM
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I’m pretty familiar with the ins and outs of leasing and pay to play rights.

With the leasing of rights on a property things of course need to be clear. There are tons of pitfalls. One major pitfall I’ve seen by the land owner in hunting leases is assuming they retain the right to hunt themselves. When you lease your 1000 acre parcel for cattle by the acre to somone you can’t put your own cattle on the ranch. Same for hunting rights. If the owner has leased those rights away to someone they have paid for that limited resource.

Many land owners will want to retain some hunting rights and that’s understandable to most. Usually the land owner will say that he just wants to hunt mabye a few weekends a year with some family members. What ends up happening is those few weekends turn out to be opening weekend for deer season and every weekend for the next 4-6 weeks.

If a land owner wants to retain some hunting rights he should give specific dates of the year. Otherwise it’s left up for interpretation. “Every once in a while” could be 2 times a year. It could also mean one weekend a month. One weekend a month is basically 25% of the time. If that’s the case wouldn’t you think you would have 25% more hunting pressure than you expected, 25% less access, 25% less success, 25% off the price off the cost of the lease right???

The other thing that happens is that there will be a nephew or other family member who dosent like the fact that you are there. He begged the family to let him start his own guide service to pay the hunting lease but they wanted the cash up front. So now he’s bitter. He will be the one who just so happens to show up with a few of his buddies the weekend you come to hunt. Of course he can’t hunt so he will be there to “work” but in fact he’s there to ride dirt bikes with his buddies till 3am and generally ruin your weekend.

Another pitfall is the overbearing landowner. This is the one who breaks out a calendar right after you sign the lease and he gets the check. He basically wants you to plan your hunting weekends out a year in advance. This is the rancher who will change the lock every time you leave. No spur of the moment hunts, no spontainous weekends.

Roads. This is one of the major pitfalls I see from the hunters. There’s nothing that pisses a landowner off more than someone screwing up his roads. Perfect example, it’s been dumping rain all week. The weekend hunt looks like it will definitely be cancelled. Friday mid day the sun comes out, you make a break for the ranch after work. You hunt all weekend. Come Sunday evening the rancher calls you and says his roads are trashed and he got stuck on the mountain while trying to check cattle because you and everyone else in your group turned his wet roads into split pea soup driving around all weekend.

Guests, Don’t let guests hunt by themselves. If each member of the hunting lease is allowed one guest or something like that don’t allow any guest to hunt alone or together unless accompanied by one of the people on the lease. I remember a situation where a landowner used to allow a guy who leased his land to hunt to use his quad to haul out game. The guy who had the lease killed a nice pig sent his buddy and his friend to go back and get the quad while he gutted the hog. The two guys on the quad eventually got lost trying to get back. They ended up on a different ranch where the owner was working. He saw 2 people he didn’t know on his quad on somone else’s ranch. He chased them down and held them at gunpoint. Let’s just say that guy lost his lease.

There’s a lot of pitfalls. Cover your bases.
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Old 08-10-2018, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pl411 View Post
This is helpful information. As you can tell, I donít know much about deer hunting in California or land management. That is why I am asking for help. I did shoot one buck on the property a few years ago when hog and unable to resist the shot but have shot many hogs and know that species much better. I actually have purposely controlled my trigger finger and not shoot deer on the property to improve the populaion. So would you impose an antler or other limit on bucks or is that useless if you limit membership to 3-4. Some mentioned the impact of deer going to and from adjacent ranches. Given that should we be less concerned about limiting deer hunting. By the way, perhaps because I donít hunt deer much and am there a lot I pretty much can predict where the deer will be and they seem to be the same ones. So it seems the same deer are staying on the property despite a good amount of hog hunting not too far off from the deer spots. At any rate, I appreciate the help and this sharing of knowledge is one of the great things about this forum. While my buddy and I can no longer afford to keep it to ourselves, we just donít want to mess this property up by opening it to others without proper rules.



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Interesting thoughts on game management in this post.. keep in Mind shooting bucks generally does not negatively impact deer populations and in most cases bolsters the herd and can lead to increases in populations. Iím sure that in 5 THOUSAND acres of private rangeland in tehama county there is a large population of deer. Better management practices would consist of depredation . And habitat improvements not ,not hunting ...
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Old 08-11-2018, 2:23 PM
pl411 pl411 is offline
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Default Hunting Lease Value & Terms

Thank you for all the great feedback. You have provided a lot of good information on how to set up this hunting lease. Now it is apparent that I need to start reading and learning more about deer management in California. I thought I was just lucky when I applied for B zone and was getting only buck tags. LOL. I have a deal with some buddies back East where I hunt deer with them there on property they lease and they hunt hogs with me on this land. The VA laws are so favorable for shooting antlerless deer that itís like varmint hunting. It seems you can just keep buying ďbonus tagsĒ for them as you want. To answer a few questions folks asked about the property we are dealing with: there are a lot of turkey. I see a few quail here and there. The land varies from rolling hills with little cover other then oak trees to areas of heavy brush. I really only hog hunt and coyotes on the property. Since I knew one day for cost reasons my buddy was going to have to open the property up to others, while I scout around and camp there almost every month I really have tried to mainly hunt hogs and coyotes there for about the 4-5 years I have been there thinking that would improve or maintain the deer, turkey, etc. hunting. Maybe that was a mistake based upon some of the comments here regarding controlling the populations. At any rate, I appreciate people taking the time to provide information.


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Old 08-11-2018, 2:30 PM
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^^^ Good response. We are setting up a hunting lease east of El Paso now and dealing with game management and infrastructure issues. What will be hunted, amount of hunting pressure and take of game. We have dove, Quaiil lots of ducks with 200 acres of ponds. Some hogs and the secret is some great bucks. Big game never hunted there. We have 200 acres in crops now and are leveling and prepping for more silage. WE have 1800 acres and my bro and I are trying to buy neighbors plot. I have helped with 2 hunting properties in ca for 30 years. Good luck. Shay has the best knowledge on here to me. This property is 40 milesfrom any lodging and has power and water,
no place yet for trailers or motorhomes. We are putting in kitchen . bathrooms and dining room/lounge area. Shaded picnic area Will be putting pads and hookups for rvs. We have 1800 acres along rio grande.

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Old 08-12-2018, 2:35 PM
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Several friends (as many as 10 but not all were very active users) and I leased a large ranch near Parkfield, but this was 15 years ago. There were 10 of us, and we paid $1K each. That got us 2 pigs and upland game hunting. Varmints were welcome to be shot as it was a cattle ranch. If we wanted a deer, we paid extra. If we wanted extra pigs, we paid $250 for sows and small boars and $350 for trophy boars. We were able to leave our trailers there and use our ATVs on the roads only. The fields in the flats were planted with barley so lots of hogs. This was 25k acres including the BLM land. We were there for many years, until the rancher passed away.
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Old 08-12-2018, 3:28 PM
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^^ Was that the Kamazu property on vineyard canyon? We hunted the adjoining VanHorn property and down south of parkfield till owner died.
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Old 08-13-2018, 10:15 PM
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No, this was on Turkey Flat Road.
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