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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 69 7.89%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 591 67.62%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 19 2.17%
I paid too much for my Membership! 40 4.58%
They will go out of business this year! 21 2.40%
Don't want anything to do with them! 134 15.33%
Voters: 874. You may not vote on this poll

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  #9681  
Old 08-07-2018, 5:55 PM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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There was still remnants of 5.11 merchandise on ďclearanceĒ if that even means anything. Lots of holsters. Dozens. They probably have what you want. The newer ones in stock are more narrow and more concealable, I guess. Get a new one even if you donít really need it. Mags and such are now in the realm of the Armory and out of reach of credits and discounts. Itís like dealing with Watto from Star Wars: ďPro Shop credits are no good out here! I need something more tangible, more real!Ē
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  #9682  
Old 08-09-2018, 2:51 PM
Mud Eagle Mud Eagle is offline
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Okay, stupid question.

How do I buy one of these course certificates that you see all these guys selling on eBay and such?

I am a Diamond member, but I want to take my nephew to the 4-day defensive handgun course with me.

I could buy from one of the eBay'ers, I suppose...but where do they get 'em in the first place?
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  #9683  
Old 08-09-2018, 3:05 PM
nszzya nszzya is offline
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Originally Posted by Mud Eagle View Post
Okay, stupid question.

How do I buy one of these course certificates that you see all these guys selling on eBay and such?

I am a Diamond member, but I want to take my nephew to the 4-day defensive handgun course with me.

I could buy from one of the eBay'ers, I suppose...but where do they get 'em in the first place?
PM AAShooter. He'll hook you up.
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  #9684  
Old 08-09-2018, 4:27 PM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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Originally Posted by Mud Eagle View Post
Okay, stupid question.

How do I buy one of these course certificates that you see all these guys selling on eBay and such?

I am a Diamond member, but I want to take my nephew to the 4-day defensive handgun course with me.

I could buy from one of the eBay'ers, I suppose...but where do they get 'em in the first place?
Certificates come with some memberships or membership upgrades. They go way back to the beginning of memberships. There are certs for classes or equipment rental or other things.
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  #9685  
Old 08-09-2018, 9:05 PM
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Jedi54 Jedi54 is offline
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What brand are the new holsters?
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  #9686  
Old 08-10-2018, 1:23 AM
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guntrust guntrust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mud Eagle View Post
Okay, stupid question.

How do I buy one of these course certificates that you see all these guys selling on eBay and such?

I am a Diamond member, but I want to take my nephew to the 4-day defensive handgun course with me.

I could buy from one of the eBay'ers, I suppose...but where do they get 'em in the first place?
I have almost 50,000,000 certs. Not worth my time to haggle over certs but i do sell blues on ebay, and give away all types of certs to those who attend my seminars and bring others.
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  #9687  
Old 08-10-2018, 12:32 PM
Mud Eagle Mud Eagle is offline
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Thanks for the help, gents!
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  #9688  
Old 08-10-2018, 2:40 PM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
What brand are the new holsters?
K-Rounds.
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  #9689  
Old 08-10-2018, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mud Eagle View Post
Okay, stupid question.

How do I buy one of these course certificates that you see all these guys selling on eBay and such?

I am a Diamond member, but I want to take my nephew to the 4-day defensive handgun course with me.

I could buy from one of the eBay'ers, I suppose...but where do they get 'em in the first place?
If that's all you need, make an account for him and let me know and I will transfer a Patriot membership to him free. This will allow you to take him to the following courses at any time:

Attend the following Front Sight Nevada courses free of charge and as often as you wish and as many times as you wish:

Two Day Defensive Handgun; Two Day Tactical Shotgun; Two Day Practical Rifle; Four Day Defensive Handgun; Four Day Tactical Shotgun; Four Day Practical Rifle.

I don't mind parting with one if you really need it rather than simply having a certificate. Not trying to undermine anyone else who is selling these, but figure why buy anything if someone will give you one for free.

Thanks for all of the replies to everyone else for letting me know what's in the shop. I remember when you could actually buy a lot with the credits AND still get the 40% discount. Now it appears that there's not much to buy and its marked up incredibly high. I have over 100k to blow and was just curious. Does anyone know when they stock the store by any chance?
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  #9690  
Old 08-10-2018, 6:08 PM
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K-Rounds.
Never heard of them.
Phasing out blade tech?
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  #9691  
Old 08-10-2018, 7:00 PM
poppa p poppa p is offline
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Not sure if this is the same company Jedi54, but I would guess it is...

https://www.krounds.com
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  #9692  
Old 08-10-2018, 7:15 PM
damon1272 damon1272 is offline
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Thatís fine. Did think blade tech was all that great. Got better performance out of my Uncle Mikes holster. Donít really care for my blade tech and how the gun draws out of it.
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  #9693  
Old 08-10-2018, 7:15 PM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
Never heard of them.
Phasing out blade tech?
I had never heard of them before either. I think I saw Blade Tech remnants on the hooks but Iím not sure. I bought one with credits @ $109.99 and I found it to be a good addition to the holster collection. Thereís no belt adjustment so I fabíd a spacer. Works fine.
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  #9694  
Old 08-10-2018, 7:28 PM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppa p View Post
If that's all you need, make an account for him and let me know and I will transfer a Patriot membership to him free. This will allow you to take him to the following courses at any time:

Attend the following Front Sight Nevada courses free of charge and as often as you wish and as many times as you wish:

Two Day Defensive Handgun; Two Day Tactical Shotgun; Two Day Practical Rifle; Four Day Defensive Handgun; Four Day Tactical Shotgun; Four Day Practical Rifle.

I don't mind parting with one if you really need it rather than simply having a certificate. Not trying to undermine anyone else who is selling these, but figure why buy anything if someone will give you one for free.

Thanks for all of the replies to everyone else for letting me know what's in the shop. I remember when you could actually buy a lot with the credits AND still get the 40% discount. Now it appears that there's not much to buy and its marked up incredibly high. I have over 100k to blow and was just curious. Does anyone know when they stock the store by any chance?
Poppa p... sorry for interjecting... that Patriot membership is great and most members donít go beyond those classes, but if he ever wants to upgrade, unless he finds someone with a membership that can be transferred to an existing member heíll be paying a lot to upgrade (hundred$). Better to pay $100 for a Diamond now than quite a bit more later. Just a thought.
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  #9695  
Old 08-10-2018, 7:48 PM
poppa p poppa p is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzz View Post
Poppa p... sorry for interjecting... that Patriot membership is great and most members donít go beyond those classes, but if he ever wants to upgrade, unless he finds someone with a membership that can be transferred to an existing member heíll be paying a lot to upgrade (hundred$). Better to pay $100 for a Diamond now than quite a bit more later. Just a thought.
I absolutely agree. However, based on what he stated and some assumptions on my part, I got the impression that him taking his relative was not going to be a regular thing. This is why I offered that particular membership. I no longer have any Diamonds as all of my Diamond memberships were automatically upgraded to Commander memberships. I would not hesitate to offer this to his relative as well as I have several thousand of these as well, but just assumed that he was not planning on taking the relative out all that frequently.
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  #9696  
Old 08-11-2018, 8:07 PM
Mud Eagle Mud Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by poppa p View Post
If that's all you need, make an account for him and let me know and I will transfer a Patriot membership to him free.
Thank you very much for the generous offer. Another forum member made a similar membership offer that I took up.

Again, much appreciated everyone!
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  #9697  
Old 08-12-2018, 4:36 PM
Mustard Mustard is offline
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So I got a robo dial from Iggy about a new batch of deals. "Pay $xxxx today, get some stuff, I'll pay you back 100% in 5 years". I'm interested....

Anyone here ever partake, and how did it work out for you?
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  #9698  
Old 08-12-2018, 4:36 PM
Mustard Mustard is offline
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So I got a robo dial from Iggy about a new batch of deals. "Pay $xxxx today, get some stuff, I'll pay you back 100% in 5 years". I'm interested....

Anyone here ever partake, and how did it work out for you?
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  #9699  
Old 08-12-2018, 8:12 PM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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I bought in last August when this was first offered. Two Hawk shotguns for 5 bills. Money back in 5 years? Sure. Got my guns in a timely manner.
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  #9700  
Old 08-12-2018, 9:19 PM
Mustard Mustard is offline
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I bought in last August when this was first offered. Two Hawk shotguns for 5 bills. Money back in 5 years? Sure. Got my guns in a timely manner.
How did the transfer work? Just pick a FFL of your choice, FS ships, and good to go? Not interested in the shotguns so much as I am the XD and glock.... how does that work with the handgun roster?

Anybody do this thing 5 or more years ago? Did you get a check in the mail from Iggy for your purchase price?

Last edited by Mustard; 08-12-2018 at 9:22 PM..
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  #9701  
Old 08-12-2018, 10:04 PM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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That’s how the transfer works. Send the gun letter that you’ll receive, your FFL’s business card and $50 to FS per gun. They ship to your FFL who may or may not charge sales tax depending on his interpolation. He’ll charge a transfer fee cuz you didn’t buy his guns. Then there’s the $25 DROS fee on top of that. So your 5 Bills will turn into at least $650+. Add more transfer fees for more guns, etc. As for that rotten POS roster, I’d check that but I believe the XD is ok, but the Glock will be a Gen 3.
The Champion club only came out last August so those rebates are still 48 months out. Time will tell. He must really be expecting to be raking it in by 2022 to be offering everyone’s money back.

Last edited by Muzz; 08-12-2018 at 10:07 PM..
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  #9702  
Old 08-16-2018, 6:35 AM
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rodralig rodralig is online now
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Default QUESTION - which should the Wife use? Glock 19 or Glock 34?

Okay, as previously mentioned, am planning to take my family (wife and 2 boys) to FS for some fun-filled vacation. The boys will be taking the 4D Children's and Youth Achievement Camp and the wife will be taking the 4D DHG. I'm thinking of something else for myself - the 4D Practical Rifle. It would either be mid-December or late February, and possibly in March if the latest calendar becomes online.

Having said that - my wife hasn't shot a pistol before. I could introduce her to it, but have always been warned that wives don't listen to their husbands when it comes to, say, firearms. I left it at that...

Come class day - I would guess that the preference would be a 9mm for her, right? I have BOTH a Glock 19 and a Glock 34. Should I have her use the Glock? If so, which one? And if not, what would you recommend renting from FS? Obviously, an M&P Shield 9 sub-compact is out of the question...

Cheers,

_
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  #9703  
Old 08-16-2018, 7:10 AM
damon1272 damon1272 is offline
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I would make sure she is familiar operating a pistol before class starts as the class is not ďthat basicĒ. She should be comfortable putting on a holster and mag holder, using a Uplula loader for magazines, having sufficient protection from the sun and wearing a required ball cap.

As for the gun make sure she is comfortable shooting the Glock as the grips can be tough for smaller hands. A Springfield XD is easier for someone to manipulate with small hands.
Have her shoot what she feels better with. I would bet she would prefer the 19.
It is not to teacher her to shoot but more about how to load and wearing the gear so she can concentrate on what they are teaching.
If you attend the same class as her donít pair up. Seen too many couples fight and argue and nobody is learning then.
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  #9704  
Old 08-16-2018, 7:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Okay, as previously mentioned, am planning to take my family (wife and 2 boys) to FS for some fun-filled vacation. The boys will be taking the 4D Children's and Youth Achievement Camp and the wife will be taking the 4D DHG. I'm thinking of something else for myself - the 4D Practical Rifle. It would either be mid-December or late February, and possibly in March if the latest calendar becomes online.

Having said that - my wife hasn't shot a pistol before. I could introduce her to it, but have always been warned that wives don't listen to their husbands when it comes to, say, firearms. I left it at that...

Come class day - I would guess that the preference would be a 9mm for her, right? I have BOTH a Glock 19 and a Glock 34. Should I have her use the Glock? If so, which one? And if not, what would you recommend renting from FS? Obviously, an M&P Shield 9 sub-compact is out of the question...

Cheers,

_
As fun as the 4D Practical Rifle is, I'd sacrifice it for the 4DDHG if I were you. This way you can be there as emotional support for her. Nothing like being thrown into a 4 day class for a sport you've never done before, unless you have an unbridled enthusiasm for it. But then why hasn't she shot before if she did, and has a hubby who's into guns, right?

You don't want to be her coach, but you can be training in the next lane. The instructors will guide her through the class. But having someone familiar next to you can be very comforting through a new experience.

If you succeed in making her a gun enthusiast, your gun hobby will improve 100%, I guarantee. Trips to shooting classes will always be in the agenda, new guns will be that much easier. Believe me, I've been there.

As far as gun choices go, for which gun do you have a holster for? If for neither or for both, I'd let her shoot the G34. Dimensionally bigger guns are easier. The weight difference doesn't matter and it will recoil less.

Be sure to pick up 17 round mags at Bass Pro or somewhere on your way in. Best if you buy 10/17 magazine blocks and epoxy before you leave CA so you can bring those mags home with you.

If she likes 4DDHG, next is 4DPR for both of you. Such is a smorgasbord.
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  #9705  
Old 08-16-2018, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
I would make sure she is familiar operating a pistol before class starts as the class is not ďthat basicĒ. She should be comfortable putting on a holster and mag holder, using a Uplula loader for magazines, having sufficient protection from the sun and wearing a required ball cap.

....

It is not to teacher her to shoot but more about how to load and wearing the gear so she can concentrate on what they are teaching.
That would make sense. I'll do that...

Quote:
If you attend the same class as her donít pair up. Seen too many couples fight and argue and nobody is learning then.
Well, this is one of the reasons that if she takes 4DDHG, I'd be taking a different class.


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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
As fun as the 4D Practical Rifle is, I'd sacrifice it for the 4DDHG if I were you. This way you can be there as emotional support for her. Nothing like being thrown into a 4 day class for a sport you've never done before, unless you have an unbridled enthusiasm for it. But then why hasn't she shot before if she did, and has a hubby who's into guns, right?

You don't want to be her coach, but you can be training in the next lane. The instructors will guide her through the class. But having someone familiar next to you can be very comforting through a new experience.
This, too, makes absolute sense. Aside from what was mentioned above on not pairing, another reason I'm thinking of taking a different class is a shooting style-preference.

A month after I got into firearms, I took the 2DDHG and it was Weaver with push-pull, etc. It was good for me then as I was just starting out. However as I try to evolve on my own (dry practice, local classes, matches, etc.) - I have built my foundations on Isosceles. Stance is different, recoil management is different, draw stroke is a bit different, etc. I am NOT saying that one is better than the other, it is more of a preference.

Hence, maybe I'd take 4DPR...


Quote:
If you succeed in making her a gun enthusiast, your gun hobby will improve 100%, I guarantee. Trips to shooting classes will always be in the agenda, new guns will be that much easier. Believe me, I've been there.
That is the intent.


Quote:
As far as gun choices go, for which gun do you have a holster for? If for neither or for both, I'd let her shoot the G34. Dimensionally bigger guns are easier. The weight difference doesn't matter and it will recoil less.
Yeah, I was thinking the G34 would be better; but wanted to know what others think. BTW, I have gear for both.


Quote:
Be sure to pick up 17 round mags at Bass Pro or somewhere on your way in. Best if you buy 10/17 magazine blocks and epoxy before you leave CA so you can bring those mags home with you.
I'm lost...

If I were to glue the blocks/limiters to the magazines, then it doesn't make sense buying those 17-rounders. Right?

Cheers,

_
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  #9706  
Old 08-16-2018, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
...
This, too, makes absolute sense. Aside from what was mentioned above on not pairing, another reason I'm thinking of taking a different class is a shooting style-preference.

A month after I got into firearms, I took the 2DDHG and it was Weaver with push-pull, etc. It was good for me then as I was just starting out. However as I try to evolve on my own (dry practice, local classes, matches, etc.) - I have built my foundations on Isosceles. Stance is different, recoil management is different, draw stroke is a bit different, etc. I am NOT saying that one is better than the other, it is more of a preference. ...
They will not push Weaver onto you if you shoot a different style and look like you know what you are doing.

As someone else mentioned you could be next to her instead of pairing with her. That way you are there for support, but not having to direct her in regards to safety etc..

I know you said you would not want to teach her. However, I'd want to make sure she can rack the gun to load it. I was helping my sister a while back and she could not rack the gun as she was just using one hand and trying to pull the slide back while just holding the gun instead of pushing with the strong hand while pulling the slide with the support hand. A subtle difference but it made it work. Also, she might have to go overhand instead of the slingshot method etc., etc.. Depends on her strength.
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  #9707  
Old 08-16-2018, 1:05 PM
Muzz Muzz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Okay, as previously mentioned, am planning to take my family (wife and 2 boys) to FS for some fun-filled vacation. The boys will be taking the 4D Children's and Youth Achievement Camp and the wife will be taking the 4D DHG. I'm thinking of something else for myself - the 4D Practical Rifle. It would either be mid-December or late February, and possibly in March if the latest calendar becomes online.

Having said that - my wife hasn't shot a pistol before. I could introduce her to it, but have always been warned that wives don't listen to their husbands when it comes to, say, firearms. I left it at that...

Come class day - I would guess that the preference would be a 9mm for her, right? I have BOTH a Glock 19 and a Glock 34. Should I have her use the Glock? If so, which one? And if not, what would you recommend renting from FS? Obviously, an M&P Shield 9 sub-compact is out of the question...

Cheers,
_
I would get in alot of admin training in before the class. Grip, stance, loading, unloading, mag loading, presentations, malfunctions(!), etc. Chamber checking was a big deal for my wife. That took a while to get right. Watch with her the 1day intro handgun course on Front Sight TV. Itís on the sample area of the site so itís free if you donít have a subscription. As tough as my wife is, after her first 2-day she was DONE! It can be overwhelming. And I thought I prepared her well enough. DO take her to a local range to shoot keeping in mind the grip, stance, etc. The more you go over this the better time sheíll have, trust me. Been there, done that.
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  #9708  
Old 08-16-2018, 3:06 PM
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I'm lost...

If I were to glue the blocks/limiters to the magazines, then it doesn't make sense buying those 17-rounders. Right?

Cheers,

_
The idea is for her to shoot the class with 17 rounders and not have to get rid of them at the end of class when you have to go home. Or you can always meet me at the end of class and give them to me.

For a newbie, not having to change magazines as often can only improve her experience.

Also if you can shoot, they will not hassle you about your isosceles stance. Many of the instructors also compete and shoot iso, they just have to instruct weaver in class.
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  #9709  
Old 08-16-2018, 4:47 PM
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Thanks for the replies!

As take-aways,
  • On the assumption that I know what I'm doing, the instructors won't be hassling me on my Iso.
  • Try to get my wife into the administrative handling of the gun as early as possible - grip, stance, etc. Yeah, I'm not a fan of the slingshot, so, it would probably be the overhand for her.
  • That said, if the 2D is overwhelming of a beginner, should I just go for it instead of the 4D?

That said, I did check the latest FS calendar with my kids' school. Unfortunately, there aren't any that would work. I guess I have to wait when they release the schedule for March onwards.

Again, thanks for the responses...


_
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  #9710  
Old 08-16-2018, 5:58 PM
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...[*]That said, if the 2D is overwhelming of a beginner, should I just go for it instead of the 4D?[/list]
_
If you look at the round counts 4 days is 600 - 700 rounds, not really much per day. Because of the relay system she will not be shooting a lot at a time anyway.

Also, the idea is for her to have fun while getting introduced to handguns. The shoot house is fun. I'd go for the 4D as originally planned.
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  #9711  
Old 08-16-2018, 6:25 PM
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So just like when I worked at a driving school. 2 days get the concepts across. Day three is usually a partial drop in performance and day for is where everything gells. Do the four day. Also two things not mentioned bring a comfortable lawn chair bring aspirin for the sore muscles.
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  #9712  
Old 08-17-2018, 6:47 AM
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So just like when I worked at a driving school. 2 days get the concepts across. Day three is usually a partial drop in performance and day for is where everything gells. Do the four day. Also two things not mentioned bring a comfortable lawn chair bring aspirin for the sore muscles.
Hahaha!

Will do Sir...!



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Originally Posted by tanks View Post
Also, the idea is for her to have fun while getting introduced to handguns. The shoot house is fun. I'd go for the 4D as originally planned.
Sweet! Will do...!

BTW, the TPC in Utah - is it better to drive out? Or fly in? However, for the latter, I can't find any feasible flights...


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Old 08-17-2018, 8:52 AM
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...BTW, the TPC in Utah - is it better to drive out? Or fly in? However, for the latter, I can't find any feasible flights...
...
I'd drive. It is only an hour and a half from Vegas. Also, I'd either camp at the range if you have an RV or use AirBnB. I have, in the past, stayed at nice AirBnBs at $40 per night.
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:17 AM
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My two cents: first class i took was a 2ddhg, but I've been shooting for 5 years. Two days was enough for me to get hooked on training classes, four days might have exhausted me at the end.

There were two gun virgins in my class, a bf/gf pair. I was pretty nervous standing next to them in day 1 but by day 2 i felt safe(r). They still can't shoot accurately, but they can shoot safely.

I figured you'd be your wife's line coach; bf/gf did it for each other. But i can understand if a couple is fighting on the range then no one is havinga good day. You know your wife best (i knows her pretty well too, haha jk); it can be a chance to connect or a chance to let her have fun.

I'd vote glock 34for the extra sight radius (and softer recoil? Never shot a 34 before, so don't know). The conversation about magazines is spot on ; mag changes are not the focus at this point for a gun noob.

Most important to me is my thumb on my firing hand. Even with a two day my **** was raw from mag changes and malfunction drills. I already had an extended mag release, but bought a oem extended slide catch because ofthis. Make the ergonomics perfect for the little lady so she'll enjoy herself more instead of fear every mag changes and type 3 malfunction.

Dress appropriate (including shoes. I had to loan sneakers to bf/gf pair, she was wearing heels), hydrate, hat, shirt for hot brass mitigation, e.t.c
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:30 PM
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Just an FYI for a buck or two you can get a DVD/downlaod from FS and it will give your wife some info on being there for the first time - they cover what she will learn and was very informative - well worth doing for the novice first timer in the shooting sport.

Good Luck!
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Old 08-20-2018, 6:46 AM
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Thanks for the responses guys!

As I was once an FS student, I have the introductory DVD. I also bought the printed manuals for the HG, PR and Shotgun at the ProShop when I was there.

Yeah, I guess that it would be best that I pair up with her... Since she just started doing Kendo (Japanese swordsmanship) 3x/week - am hoping that she be up and running by March for a 4D.


That said... Maybe it's me; but, the last time I was at Front Sight I didn't appreciate the unsolicited advice from my pair. YES to points that are related to safety and what the FS instructors touch on; NO to stuff like "special tips" to improve grip and stance, etc. that he seemingly learned from another school. Especially from someone who doesn't shoot any better than I did... He had a Glock 17 with low-recoil reloads (he told me he got it from this "guy," etc.), and I had a Glock 22 with factory.



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Originally Posted by tanks View Post
I'd drive. It is only an hour and a half from Vegas. Also, I'd either camp at the range if you have an RV or use AirBnB. I have, in the past, stayed at nice AirBnBs at $40 per night.
Noted! Thanks! I guess with Ron Avery is now due...


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