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  #1  
Old 08-09-2018, 3:51 PM
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CobraTactical CobraTactical is offline
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Default Cobra Tactical is Back on Calguns

Cobra Tactical is back from our extended coffee break. Only 4 years! We are reintroducing ourselves.

We just updated our CalGuns Listing and have a new website. We want Calguns followers to know that we have some exciting news to share.
We have been working on some pretty cool Cerakote projects and are the "Customers Choice" Factory Certified Cerakote Applicator in the Santa Clarita Valey. Check out our some of our Projects at Cerakote.

Cobra Tactical recently changed its store hours - Monday through Friday 11am to 6pm. We are available by appointment only on Saturday.

We are enhancing our machining capabilities which mean some exciting things are on the way.

Some of our other specialty coatings include: Parkerization, PVD, Melonite, and Anodizing.

Cobra Tactical is a Glock Certified Armorer
Glock Blue Label Specialist
Smith & Wesson Guardian Dealer

Some featured firearms brands we carry include: Glock, Smith & Wesson, CZ USA, Beretta, H&K, Remington, FN America, Sig Sauer, and our very own CT-15 line of rifles.

Please inquire with us to learn more about how we can help with your firearms needs.

Due to the new CA gun laws we have experienced a number of clients seeking assistance in getting their firearms in compliance. We are happy to assist.

Training Yes we offer that. Private classes for beginners to expert.

We have tons of respect for CalGuns and its followers. We do accept FFL to FFL and ammunition transfers.

Cobra Tactical is looking forward to working with you and seeing you on the Range. When you see us, please say hello.

-Eric
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Cobra Tactical, Inc - Los Angeles County
FFL07-SOT Firearms Manufacturer
Glock Certified Armor / Glock Blue Label LEO Specialist
NRA Certified Instructor Rifle/Pistol/RSO
Factory Certified Cerakote - High Temp & Elite
Gunsmith Since 2003
Veteran USMC Owned & Operated
Military and LEO Discounts Available
28910 Avenue Penn, Unit 210 - Valencia, CA 91355 - 661-257-1406
contact@cobratactical.com
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2018, 6:36 PM
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Are you still illegally charging $45 for a PPT?
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Old 08-09-2018, 8:19 PM
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Default Cobra Tactical PPT Pricing

Hi G-forceJunkie, Thank you for taking the time to inquire about our rates. I remember our talk.

Our fees used to be $45 for the first gun and $10/additional guns and we accepted credit cards.

We undeniably, spend a lot of time educating our clients during PPT's and after 45 minutes, and "making" $10.00 in that period we realized we would go out of business. Which is why we called our lawyers and CALDOJ and we learned that it is illegal for CALDOJ to dictate what anyone charges. Additionally, DOJ told us that we could charge a $10.00/gun fee; bringing the total to $45.00 (which you refer). In hindsight there may have been some misinterpretation on our part. But after all said and done we decided to stick to the CALDOJ Website. We do believe the intent of CALDOJ is to run FFL's out of business hence their dictating fees. But hey, the original Cobra Tactical is still here (since 2003). And so if you are reading this, we are still working for you to make sure you have a pleasant experience during your visit to your local guns store.

We charge $35.00 for the first handgun then $31.00 for each additional handgun. Long gun is $35.00 for the first and $10.00 for additional. We also changed to Cash only rates. Of course, all paperwork from both parties must be in order before we start PPT.

Here is a link to our FFL Fees. Please let me know if you feel that anything is illegal or unfair and we can review your concerns.

FYI the DOJ says an FFL must conduct a PPT. So what if they buyer is on drugs? Doesn't the FFL have a responsibility to refuse the transaction? Seems a bit sketchy if "Firearms dealers are required to process a private party transfer upon request..."

We always welcome scrutiny we just ask that you are polite. We are all learning.

Eric
__________________
Cobra Tactical, Inc - Los Angeles County
FFL07-SOT Firearms Manufacturer
Glock Certified Armor / Glock Blue Label LEO Specialist
NRA Certified Instructor Rifle/Pistol/RSO
Factory Certified Cerakote - High Temp & Elite
Gunsmith Since 2003
Veteran USMC Owned & Operated
Military and LEO Discounts Available
28910 Avenue Penn, Unit 210 - Valencia, CA 91355 - 661-257-1406
contact@cobratactical.com
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  #4  
Old 08-09-2018, 8:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Hi G-forceJunkie, Thank you for taking the time to inquire about our rates. I remember our talk.

Our fees used to be $45 for the first gun and $10/additional guns and we accepted credit cards.

We undeniably, spend a lot of time educating our clients during PPT's and after 45 minutes, and "making" $10.00 in that period we realized we would go out of business. Which is why we called our lawyers and CALDOJ and we learned that it is illegal for CALDOJ to dictate what anyone charges. Additionally, DOJ told us that we could charge a $10.00/gun fee; bringing the total to $45.00 (which you refer). In hindsight there may have been some misinterpretation on our part. But after all said and done we decided to stick to the CALDOJ Website. We do believe the intent of CALDOJ is to run FFL's out of business hence their dictating fees. But hey, the original Cobra Tactical is still here (since 2003). And so if you are reading this, we are still working for you to make sure you have a pleasant experience during your visit to your local guns store.

We charge $35.00 for the first handgun then $31.00 for each additional handgun. Long gun is $35.00 for the first and $10.00 for additional. We also changed to Cash only rates. Of course, all paperwork from both parties must be in order before we start PPT.

Here is a link to our FFL Fees. Please let me know if you feel that anything is illegal or unfair and we can review your concerns.

FYI the DOJ says an FFL must conduct a PPT. So what if they buyer is on drugs? Doesn't the FFL have a responsibility to refuse the transaction? Seems a bit sketchy if "Firearms dealers are required to process a private party transfer upon request..."

We always welcome scrutiny we just ask that you are polite. We are all learning.

Eric
Quoted for posterity.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...earms-fees.pdf

$25 for them plus $10 for you.

Multiple guns, $10 each when on same DROS, so two guns is $45.....
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It never fails to amuse me how people get outraged but fail to tell the whole story in their rants....

Last edited by Garv; 08-09-2018 at 8:26 PM..
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  #5  
Old 08-09-2018, 8:40 PM
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Hi Gary, Thank you. Can you take a look at this CAL DOJ and give me your thoughts? Seems a conflict between prices in DOJ link you provided and what I prev. posted.
"21. What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?"

Thank you

Eric
__________________
Cobra Tactical, Inc - Los Angeles County
FFL07-SOT Firearms Manufacturer
Glock Certified Armor / Glock Blue Label LEO Specialist
NRA Certified Instructor Rifle/Pistol/RSO
Factory Certified Cerakote - High Temp & Elite
Gunsmith Since 2003
Veteran USMC Owned & Operated
Military and LEO Discounts Available
28910 Avenue Penn, Unit 210 - Valencia, CA 91355 - 661-257-1406
contact@cobratactical.com
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  #6  
Old 08-09-2018, 8:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Hi Gary, Thank you. Can you take a look at this CAL DOJ and give me your thoughts? Seems a conflict between prices in DOJ link you provided and what I prev. posted.
"21. What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?"

Thank you

Eric
Seems pretty clear for a PPT:

What fees do I charge a firearm purchaser?

21:
What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
If the transaction is a PPT, in addition to the state fees, you may charge up to $10.00 or less per firearm for conducting the PPT. For example:
For a PPT involving one or more firearms, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first firearm ($25 DROS fee and $10 PPT fee), and $10.00 for each subsequent firearm.


$25 DROS
plus $10 (or less) for each firearm on the same DROS.
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Originally posted by Kestryll:
It never fails to amuse me how people get outraged but fail to tell the whole story in their rants....
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  #7  
Old 08-09-2018, 8:58 PM
superdave50 superdave50 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
Are you still illegally charging $45 for a PPT?
dang, right to the jugular!

Last edited by superdave50; 08-09-2018 at 9:14 PM..
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2018, 9:03 PM
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If you are still in doubt, I suggest you post up the same question in our "General Gun Discussions" forum or the "FFL's Forum".

Don't be surprised to be asked to contact member bigcalidave to become a vendor here if you will be advertising your business.

Good Luck.
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It never fails to amuse me how people get outraged but fail to tell the whole story in their rants....
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2018, 9:15 PM
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Hi Garv,

I appreciate the feedback. This is what was mean to link. Not sure why it didn't:

"Can I sell a gun directly to another person (i.e. non-dealer)?

Generally, no. This type of transaction is referred to as a “private party transfer” and must be conducted with both parties, in person, through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The purchaser (and seller if the purchaser is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements.

Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request but may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting the transfer. For example:

For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction.
For private party transfers involving one or more long guns, or a private party transfer involving one handgun, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00. The dealer may charge an additional dealer-service fee of up to $10.00 for each additional firearm.

"Antique firearms," as defined in section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement. For additional exceptions, refer to Penal Code sections 27850 through 27966."

Thank you,
Eric
__________________
Cobra Tactical, Inc - Los Angeles County
FFL07-SOT Firearms Manufacturer
Glock Certified Armor / Glock Blue Label LEO Specialist
NRA Certified Instructor Rifle/Pistol/RSO
Factory Certified Cerakote - High Temp & Elite
Gunsmith Since 2003
Veteran USMC Owned & Operated
Military and LEO Discounts Available
28910 Avenue Penn, Unit 210 - Valencia, CA 91355 - 661-257-1406
contact@cobratactical.com
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  #10  
Old 08-09-2018, 9:15 PM
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Default Cobra Tactical is Back on Calguns

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Hi G-forceJunkie, Thank you for taking the time to inquire about our rates. I remember our talk.



Our fees used to be $45 for the first gun and $10/additional guns and we accepted credit cards.



We undeniably, spend a lot of time educating our clients during PPT's and after 45 minutes, and "making" $10.00 in that period we realized we would go out of business. Which is why we called our lawyers and CALDOJ and we learned that it is illegal for CALDOJ to dictate what anyone charges. Additionally, DOJ told us that we could charge a $10.00/gun fee; bringing the total to $45.00 (which you refer). In hindsight there may have been some misinterpretation on our part. But after all said and done we decided to stick to the CALDOJ Website. We do believe the intent of CALDOJ is to run FFL's out of business hence their dictating fees. But hey, the original Cobra Tactical is still here (since 2003). And so if you are reading this, we are still working for you to make sure you have a pleasant experience during your visit to your local guns store.



We charge $35.00 for the first handgun then $31.00 for each additional handgun. Long gun is $35.00 for the first and $10.00 for additional. We also changed to Cash only rates. Of course, all paperwork from both parties must be in order before we start PPT.



Here is a link to our FFL Fees. Please let me know if you feel that anything is illegal or unfair and we can review your concerns.



FYI the DOJ says an FFL must conduct a PPT. So what if they buyer is on drugs? Doesn't the FFL have a responsibility to refuse the transaction? Seems a bit sketchy if "Firearms dealers are required to process a private party transfer upon request..."



We always welcome scrutiny we just ask that you are polite. We are all learning.



Eric


Hello,


Since your on CG trying to solicit business. I have a genuine question.

If your believed the DOJ is trying to regulate fees to put FFLs out of business, then why would you charge more then they allow you to? Then and now.

From your link and Garvs link, I get the same thing as everyone else, 25$ for DOJ and 10$ for the shop. Nothing there to misinterpret.


Your still charging 31$ for an additional handgun.

Its not the DOJ that going to put you out of business, it will be Cobra Tactical that puts itself out of business.

Its odd that you would think that CGers are uninformed and would sit aback and get ripped off.

I get it, a shop need to pay the bills, but 31$ for an additional handgun on a PPT when the state says you can only charge 10$.....wow.

Ill standby for a reply on this thread, but Ill BRB with popcorn because I can see this getting to be a very good post.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #11  
Old 08-09-2018, 9:21 PM
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what does the state charge for an additional handgun?
sincere question..
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We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianagirl View Post
Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
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Old 08-09-2018, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaman View Post
Hello,


Since your on CG trying to solicit business. I have a genuine question.

If your believed the DOJ is trying to regulate fees to put FFLs out of business, then why would you charge more then they allow you to? Then and now.

From your link and Garvs link, I get the same thing as everyone else, 25$ for DOJ and 10$ for the shop. Nothing there to misinterpret.


Your still charging 31$ for an additional handgun.

Its not the DOJ that going to put you out of business, it will be Cobra Tactical that puts itself out of business.

Its odd that you would think that CGers are uninformed and would sit aback and get ripped off.

I get it, a shop need to pay the bills, but 31$ for an additional handgun on a PPT when the state says you can only charge 10$.....wow.

Ill standby for a reply on this thread, but Ill BRB with popcorn because I can see this getting to be a very good post.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hi Yodaman, I believed and still believe we were charging what the DOJ states on their notices to us (thioer website and intercommunication). There are several interpretations of this it seems. Search around. I never assumed the Cal-guns folks were not well informed. You can do a search on our reviews. As I mentioned, in a prev. post to Garv, I sent a link but it got screwed up so I corrected it and re-posted. Take a look yourself and let me know your thoughts. We have been doing pretty well since 2003, We are not worried about going out of business. And Yes of course I am trying to solicit business it's what businesses do. I thought I might find some support here while also offering services to benefit not only CalGuns but their members and hopefully our future and existing clients. I am doing even more research to learn what other shops are charging. We currently ask our clients what they have paid and they say about the same or more elsewhere. So I am getting conflicting info. I do not have a shortage of customers but I want to make sure I am charging fair prices too. Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

Eric
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Cobra Tactical, Inc - Los Angeles County
FFL07-SOT Firearms Manufacturer
Glock Certified Armor / Glock Blue Label LEO Specialist
NRA Certified Instructor Rifle/Pistol/RSO
Factory Certified Cerakote - High Temp & Elite
Gunsmith Since 2003
Veteran USMC Owned & Operated
Military and LEO Discounts Available
28910 Avenue Penn, Unit 210 - Valencia, CA 91355 - 661-257-1406
contact@cobratactical.com
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2018, 9:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
what does the state charge for an additional handgun?
sincere question..
Hi freonr22, On a PPT, the state does not charge an additional fee.
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Cobra Tactical, Inc - Los Angeles County
FFL07-SOT Firearms Manufacturer
Glock Certified Armor / Glock Blue Label LEO Specialist
NRA Certified Instructor Rifle/Pistol/RSO
Factory Certified Cerakote - High Temp & Elite
Gunsmith Since 2003
Veteran USMC Owned & Operated
Military and LEO Discounts Available
28910 Avenue Penn, Unit 210 - Valencia, CA 91355 - 661-257-1406
contact@cobratactical.com
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  #14  
Old 08-09-2018, 9:48 PM
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Nice to see another firearms store in Santa Clarita. We need more of them out here. Best of luck with spreading the word. And I hope to pay you a visit sometime soon.
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Old 08-09-2018, 9:50 PM
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hmm. kinda conflicting, but. ok. sincere question?
what percentage of your sales are multiple for rifle or handgun? I'm going somewhere with this.. is it really that big of an issue or fairly uncommon?

thanks for being here.

I also agree that you are a commercial entity, and need to become a commercial/paying advertiser.

thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianagirl View Post
Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
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Old 08-09-2018, 9:53 PM
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Hi JohnnyMtn, Thank you! I truly look forward to meeting you. We have some funky hour the next couple of days. But normal operating hours resuming by Tuesday. Let me know what we can do for you too. We also give 10% discounts to CalGuns Members.
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Cobra Tactical, Inc - Los Angeles County
FFL07-SOT Firearms Manufacturer
Glock Certified Armor / Glock Blue Label LEO Specialist
NRA Certified Instructor Rifle/Pistol/RSO
Factory Certified Cerakote - High Temp & Elite
Gunsmith Since 2003
Veteran USMC Owned & Operated
Military and LEO Discounts Available
28910 Avenue Penn, Unit 210 - Valencia, CA 91355 - 661-257-1406
contact@cobratactical.com
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
hmm. kinda conflicting, but. ok. sincere question?
what percentage of your sales are multiple for rifle or handgun? I'm going somewhere with this.. is it really that big of an issue or fairly uncommon?

thanks for being here.

I also agree that you are a commercial entity, and need to become a commercial/paying advertiser.

thanks!
Thanks for your integrity and for taking the time to review.

Generally we do single firearms on a PPT. 8 to 10% I would guess for multiples on PPT. We keep busy doing PPT's and have a respectable amount of repeat PPT's. We also get the return PPT. Customer leaves for a number of reasons but ends up back here telling us stories. We do try to learn from our as well as others mistakes.
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Cobra Tactical, Inc - Los Angeles County
FFL07-SOT Firearms Manufacturer
Glock Certified Armor / Glock Blue Label LEO Specialist
NRA Certified Instructor Rifle/Pistol/RSO
Factory Certified Cerakote - High Temp & Elite
Gunsmith Since 2003
Veteran USMC Owned & Operated
Military and LEO Discounts Available
28910 Avenue Penn, Unit 210 - Valencia, CA 91355 - 661-257-1406
contact@cobratactical.com
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:10 PM
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I've never had any FFL charge one extra cent for extra guns on the same DROS. Not a good start Cobra.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Hi JohnnyMtn, Thank you! I truly look forward to meeting you. We have some funky hour the next couple of days. But normal operating hours resuming by Tuesday. Let me know what we can do for you too. We also give 10% discounts to CalGuns Members.
I'm not in your area, but awesome discount!
btw, other than lack of sponsorship, good job with responses here. Everyone should know by now ppt's aren't where the money is for the lgs
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:12 PM
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lol. back in the day, 80s. I heard more than one dros with more than 50 sn's
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianagirl View Post
Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
SNIP

Our fees used to be $45 for the first gun and $10/additional guns and we accepted credit cards.
This was your policy per your website, 5 minutes before my first post. I see you edited it in the last couple of hours. So when did you make this policy change?
Quote:

We undeniably, spend a lot of time educating our clients during PPT's and after 45 minutes, and "making" $10.00 in that period we realized we would go out of business.
Not your job, you just have to process the paperwork. I have PPT'ed at many different FFLs that can do it under 15 minutes. Others choose to take an hour through extra work or inefficiency. If both parties don't have all the necessary paperwork, turn them away. Perhaps hand them a handout spelling out what they need. This should take 1-2 minutes tops so you can get back to paying customers.

Quote:
Which is why we called our lawyers and CALDOJ and we learned that it is illegal for CALDOJ to dictate what anyone charges. Additionally, DOJ told us that we could charge a $10.00/gun fee; bringing the total to $45.00 (which you refer). In hindsight there may have been some misinterpretation on our part.
I bet they didn't put that in writing eh? I'm sorry if you were lied to to given misinformation, but I can assume since you have changed your policy, you now understand your lawyers and CALDOJ were wrong?

Quote:
But after all said and done we decided to stick to the CALDOJ Website.
The same one you just quoted in post #5 that I had your female employee (wife?) pull up on your computer over a year ago when I disputed the $45 you charged me for a 1 handgun PPT? It said the same thing then as it does now.

Quote:

We do believe the intent of CALDOJ is to run FFL's out of business hence their dictating fees. But hey, the original Cobra Tactical is still here (since 2003). And so if you are reading this, we are still working for you to make sure you have a pleasant experience during your visit to your local guns store.
As do I, they are no friends to gun lovers. However, by law, we all got to take a bite of the same **** sandwich.

Quote:
We charge $35.00 for the first handgun then $31.00 for each additional handgun. Long gun is $35.00 for the first and $10.00 for additional. We also changed to Cash only rates. Of course, all paperwork from both parties must be in order before we start PPT.
I am happy to see you following the regulations, even if it just started today. (EDIT) However I don't think that $31 extra per handgun is current information. Please post the PC if you can find that in there. I can't. Current PC is:

28055.
(a) For a sale, loan, or transfer conducted pursuant to this chapter, the purchaser or transferee or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm.
(b) No other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm conducted pursuant to this chapter, except for the applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to Sections 23690 and 28300 and Article 3 (commencing with Section 28200) of Chapter 6 and forwarded to the Department of Justice, and the fees set forth in Section 31650.
(c) The dealer may not charge any additional fees.
(d) Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a dealer from charging a smaller fee.

(/EDIT)

Quote:
Here is a link to our FFL Fees. Please let me know if you feel that anything is illegal or unfair and we can review your concerns.
Looks fine now that you removed the $10 handling fee per gun a couple of hours ago.

Quote:
FYI the DOJ says an FFL must conduct a PPT. So what if they buyer is on drugs? Doesn't the FFL have a responsibility to refuse the transaction? Seems a bit sketchy if "Firearms dealers are required to process a private party transfer upon request..."
Are you a medical doctor? Are you doing drug testing in your store? It's not your problem, you are not selling the gun. You are forced to simply do the paperwork for a measly $10. It sucks for you , it sucks for the buyers and sellers, but we don't make the rules, we only have to follow them.
Quote:
We always welcome scrutiny we just ask that you are polite. We are all learning.

Eric
Thank you for replying when you could have just ignored my posts. As I told you when I was in your shop the last time, I'm not trying to bust your balls. I didn't even ask for my $10 back. As a responsable gun owner I have spend decades and lots of time and money ensuring that my guns and actions related to firearms are lawfull, I expect no less from a FFL. I'm just as sick of jumping through hoops as you are for the monkeys at CADOJ, but it's the game we have to play as gun owners/sellers/buyers in California.

Last edited by G-forceJunkie; 08-09-2018 at 11:18 PM.. Reason: added info
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by unclerandy View Post
I've never had any FFL charge one extra cent for extra guns on the same DROS. Not a good start Cobra.
hi unclerandy,

Not not charge for the additional guns is unheard of in our area. We learn this from our clients who have moved from other shops to ours. We are a larger area, which may have some impact relative to smaller areas. Not sure. But our overhead here is not inexpensive. Maybe this is a perspective issue due to geolocation and geography. Imagine quoting to install the first window on a house for the normal price and the rest for free? Seems like a bad business model honestly. I have seen and read how many FFL's have left the state recently, along with a number of California Right Wing gun supporter. Even Golden State Tactical moved. It's tough running an FFL here in California to be sure. It makes it even tougher however, when the very people needing quality FFL services are willing to pay more for a hamburger than a firearm transfer and all the time spent on answering all the questions. We will continue to fight for what is right. We have been in business since 2003 so I have to believe we are doing something right.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
This was your policy per your website, 5 minutes before my first post. I see you edited it in the last couple of hours. So when did you make this policy change?


Not your job, you just have to process the paperwork. I have PPT'ed at many different FFLs that can do it under 15 minutes. Others choose to take an hour through extra work or inefficiency. If both parties don't have all the necessary paperwork, turn them away. Perhaps hand them a handout spelling out what they need. This should take 1-2 minutes tops so you can get back to paying customers.



I bet they didn't put that in writing eh? I'm sorry if you were lied to to given misinformation, but I can assume since you have changed your policy, you now understand your lawyers and CALDOJ were wrong?



The same one you just quoted in post #5 that I had your female employee (wife?) pull up on your computer over a year ago when I disputed the $45 you charged me for a 1 handgun PPT? It said the same thing then as it does now.



As do I, they are no friends to gun lovers. However, by law, we all got to take a bite of the same **** sandwich.



I am happy to see you following the regulations, even if it just started today. (EDIT) However I don't think that $31 extra per handgun is current information. Please post the PC if you can find that in there. I can't. Current PC is:

28055.
(a) For a sale, loan, or transfer conducted pursuant to this chapter, the purchaser or transferee or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm.
(b) No other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm conducted pursuant to this chapter, except for the applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to Sections 23690 and 28300 and Article 3 (commencing with Section 28200) of Chapter 6 and forwarded to the Department of Justice, and the fees set forth in Section 31650.
(c) The dealer may not charge any additional fees.
(d) Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a dealer from charging a smaller fee.

(/EDIT)



Looks fine now that you removed the $10 handling fee per gun a couple of hours ago.



Are you a medical doctor? Are you doing drug testing in your store? It's not your problem, you are not selling the gun. You are forced to simply do the paperwork for a measly $10. It sucks for you , it sucks for the buyers and sellers, but we don't make the rules, we only have to follow them.


Thank you for replying when you could have just ignored my posts. As I told you when I was in your shop the last time, I'm not trying to bust your balls. I didn't even ask for my $10 back. As a responsable gun owner I have spend decades and lots of time and money ensuring that my guns and actions related to firearms are lawfull, I expect no less from a FFL. I'm just as sick of jumping through hoops as you are for the monkeys at CADOJ, but it's the game we have to play as gun owners/sellers/buyers in California.
Wow okay. I will responds to this then I have to go home.

I don't agree with you that it is not our job to educate our customers. However I will concede spending too much time on PPT's is no longer an option, and we are much more efficient today than even a month ago.

As previously mentioned, we were told that our previous fees were not violating any laws. And the lawyer did not discuss what we could charge. He stated that the State of California may not legally dictate the maximum any business could charge so long as it was stated at the onset of the agreement. He further said that price fixing was against the law based on Federal Trade Commission. I'm not a lawyer and don't have enough money to sue the state. What do you think? If I convince my state assemblyman to pass a new law, I can demand and pay $1000 for a really cool marine motor?

The policy in store had been change a while ago. The website is new, maybe a month old. Some things are still getting updated. After I read your review, I made sure to review our website and then removed the "$10 handling fee" because it was obviously confusing.

At the time you did the PPT our fees were $45.00 like I mentioned. You are the only one who complained to us. Ever. (Genuinely serious).

I understand where you are coming from, and no, I am not a Doctor, but I will not sell a gun (even a PPT) to someone who appears to under the influence or who tells me they use drugs, I don't care if i hurt their feelings. It is against the law for me to do and logically so. It is my job as a responsible citizen. I also demand that my clients don't point guns at me or show aggression. Fortunately we have not had to deal with that.

Thank you for conversing with me. We are doing what we can to fight the stupid laws.

Keep up the fight. Maybe we will see you back here? Beyond the $10.00, we are still the best in town

Eric
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Old 08-10-2018, 7:56 AM
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Eric:

Please read this short thread.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1184772

Posts 5 and 7 seem to sum it up.

Sounds as is your lawyer did not look up actual law and used his opinions that would take years and $$$$ to correct assuming he is right legally.

Does this lawyer own guns?
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Last edited by Garv; 08-10-2018 at 7:59 AM..
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Old 08-10-2018, 8:42 AM
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Originally Posted by superdave50 View Post
I'm not in your area, but awesome discount!
btw, other than lack of sponsorship, good job with responses here. Everyone should know by now ppt's aren't where the money is for the lgs
Found the Cobra Tactical employee.
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Old 08-10-2018, 8:46 AM
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[QUOTE=CobraTactical;I am doing even more research to learn what other shops are charging.[/QUOTE]


I do appreciate the reply, but just curious to what kind of research are you doing?

I can call 10 stores in less than 15 minutes and get their answers same day. I would guess you would be able to as well.

I would even expect that you would know what people are charging already since you are the one with the FFL and have ties to the industry.








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Old 08-10-2018, 9:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Hi Gary, Thank you. Can you take a look at this CAL DOJ and give me your thoughts? Seems a conflict between prices in DOJ link you provided and what I prev. posted.
"21. What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?"

Thank you

Eric
There's no conflict. You're just running shady business practices and taking advantage of people who don't know any better.

Quote:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#13:
13. How much is the state fee when purchasing a firearm?
  • The total state fee is $25. The DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a $1.00 Firearms Safety Act Fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement Fee. In the event of a private party transfer (PPT), the firearms dealer may charge an additional fee of up to $10 per firearm.

    If the transaction is not a PPT the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is not misrepresented as a state fee. When settling on the purchase price of a firearm, you should ask the dealer to disclose all applicable fees.

    (Pen. Code, 23690, 28055, 28225, 28230, 28300.)
Quote:
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#21G
21. What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?
  • If the transaction is a PPT, in addition to the state fees, you may charge up to $10.00 or less per firearm for conducting the PPT.

    • For example: For a PPT involving one or more firearms, the total allowable fees are $35.00 for the first firearm ($25 DROS fee and $10 PPT fee), and $10.00 for each subsequent firearm.

    (Pen. Code, 28055)

Last edited by SarcoBlaster; 08-10-2018 at 9:16 AM..
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Old 08-10-2018, 9:15 AM
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Hahahaha

Next time have more integrity than greed.

Welcome to the forums lol
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Old 08-10-2018, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Hi Gary, Thank you. Can you take a look at this CAL DOJ and give me your thoughts? Seems a conflict between prices in DOJ link you provided and what I prev. posted.
"21. What fees can I charge for handling a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?"

Thank you

Eric
How is that in conflict?
$35. $25 for the DROS fee and $10 for the PPT.
The PPT goes to you, not the state, so you may charge up to $10 over the DROS fee.
They do not say that you may charge $10 over the defined max fee of $35.


What you previously posted was that your attorney and DOJ came to the conclusion that you could charge $10 more than the state fee.
The state fee is $25 total for the DROS. You may charge no more than $35 for the first gun, and $10 each for each additional gun submitted on the same DROS (the $25 covers DOJ fees for any number of guns).
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Cobra Tactical is back from our extended coffee break. Only 4 years! We are reintroducing ourselves.
Can you take an extended lunch break, please?
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Old 08-11-2018, 4:37 AM
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Wow, not sure how you are still in business overcharging.


But I dont live near you, so not a big issue for me.

The FFL I use doesn't try to make a living off of PPTs, but rather they make a great living off of being fair and greT customer service.


Might want to try that instead of adding to the nickle and diming of the California gun owner.
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:46 AM
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Continued positive thoughts on the success of your business. However, I would strongly urge you to ditch the legal counsel who has been advising you, and to also stop running your business policy on the basis of DOJ FAQs. Some examples to consider: (My apologies, in advance for the length.)
1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Which is why we called our lawyers and CALDOJ and we learned that it is illegal for CALDOJ to dictate what anyone charges.
True, but the fee structure and limits on it are in statute. And those provisions go back to the former CA Penal Code section 12082 (http://www.oclaw.org/research/code/c...l#.W28meyhlDxw) which reads, in part,
Quote:
(a)...The purchaser or transferee or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm, and no other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm conducted pursuant to this section, except for the applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to Sections 12076, 12076.5, and 12088.9 and forwarded to the Department of Justice, and the fees set forth in Section 12805. Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a dealer from charging a smaller fee. The dealer may not charge any additional fees.
2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Additionally, DOJ told us that we could charge a $10.00/gun fee; bringing the total to $45.00 (which you refer). In hindsight there may have been some misinterpretation on our part. But after all said and done we decided to stick to the CALDOJ Website. We do believe the intent of CALDOJ is to run FFL's out of business hence their dictating fees. But hey, the original Cobra Tactical is still here (since 2003).
You may have missed the 2001 DOJ Infobull which clarified the PPT fee structure. DOJ Information Bulletin FD-01; https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...obuls/0101.pdf
Quote:
Firearms dealers are required to conduct private party transfers pursuant to Penal Code section 12071(b)(5). Dealers may not limit the days or hours in which private party transfers are conducted.
The allowable fees are limited by statute. Pursuant to Penal Code section 12082, the fees that can be charged are as follows:
Note: Under regulations, the DOJ raised the DROS rate to $19 in 2004. See 11 CCR at: https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...ta=(sc.Default)

3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
FYI the DOJ says an FFL must conduct a PPT. So what if they buyer is on drugs? Doesn't the FFL have a responsibility to refuse the transaction? Seems a bit sketchy if "Firearms dealers are required to process a private party transfer upon request..."
The law says (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=26825.)
Quote:
A licensee shall agree to and shall act properly and promptly in processing firearms transactions pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).
Note: PEN 28050 is the current PPT statute. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=28050.

Additionally, the California Code of Regulations (11 CCR 4030, et. seq.; https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...ta=(sc.Default) provides:
Quote:
11 CCR 4033
4033. Criteria for Processing Section 28050 Transactions.
(a) All dealers shall process a section 28050 transaction upon the request of the transferor. All such requests shall:
(1) Be in writing and contain all of the terms of the transaction, and
(2) Be signed by the transferor and the transferee.
(b) Except as otherwise provided in Penal Code sections 28050 through 28070, a dealer shall process a section 28050 transaction in the same manner as if it were a dealer retail sale.
To interpret that to mean you can discard due diligence under your licensure is stunning.

Again, my apologies for the length and detail of this, but some of the statements made appeared to not conform with the statutory requirements of PPT and the DOJ official guidance on the issue.

For the record, IANAL, and the above discussion has exactly the intrinsic value you paid for it.

Best.
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Old 08-14-2018, 8:46 AM
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Go to Cobra Tactical if you want absolute bad information.

Ohh and contact bigcalidave if you want to advertise your illegal fees. Want Calgun support? Support the forum and know the laws. But apparently you dont want to do either.

Who wants to sell me a gun via ppt? I kinda wanna do the transaction here so I can spank them for their illegal fees after. But then again their stupidity would most likely give me an aneurism.

Oh and fire your attorney and contact Jason Davis. FFl laws is not something you call Saul on.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:17 PM
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yes
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They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraTactical View Post
Which is why we called our lawyers and CALDOJ and we learned that it is illegal for CALDOJ to dictate what anyone charges.

Eric
Hopefully your lawyer has a day job... one that is not ‘lawyer’. Maybe mowing lawns or something?

The DOJ does not dictate anything. The state law enacted by the legislature and signed by the governor does that.

Specifically:

Quote:
28055.
(a) For a sale, loan, or transfer conducted pursuant to this chapter, the purchaser or transferee or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm.
(b) No other fee may be charged by the dealer for a sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm conducted pursuant to this chapter, except for the applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to Sections 23690 and 28300 and Article 3 (commencing with Section 28200) of Chapter 6 and forwarded to the Department of Justice, and the fees set forth in Section 31650.
(c) The dealer may not charge any additional fees.
(d) Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a dealer from charging a smaller fee.
It’s a misdemeanor to violate it.

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Last edited by SkyHawk; 08-14-2018 at 10:33 PM..
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Old 08-15-2018, 7:06 AM
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Old 08-15-2018, 7:54 AM
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OP:

You still are checking in once in a while.

Believe it or not, we are trying to help you.

Some of the responses were rough because you stood your ground in a forum that knows more about the rules and requirements than DOJ and all but a few specialized lawyers.
Some of those lawyers are members here.

Many, if not most of us, that do PPTs also buy a few extra things while visiting a shop.
You get someone in the shop 3 times: buyer and seller, then the buyer returns for pickup.
Some buy a gun or two and become regular Customers, others buy some ammo, targets, gear, etc.

I wonder how much better you would be doing if you did not alienate knowledgeable Customers by your overcharges.

Now that you KNOW you were wrong, I suggest you refund those overcharges.
You might get more business in the long run through goodwill.

Finding a more competent lawyer is a good suggestion as stated above.

Fix it and this community will enjoy having you.

Good luck.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:53 PM
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Im guessing OP bailed?


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Old 08-16-2018, 7:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Yodaman View Post
Im guessing OP bailed?


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Good riddance.
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