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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-02-2014, 5:13 AM
Wallabing Wallabing is offline
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Default Shooting the M1A makes me appreciate the AR15 more

I spent all day shooting 80 rounds from a friends M1A. It was nice and all.

After that, I picked up my AR15 and realized how drastically lighter and more comfortable it was to hold the AR15, quicker to point and aquire, and the recoil of the 223, after shooting 308 felt like nothing.

I realized what I took for granted, I feel right at home with my AR15 today, and this only reinforces it.
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Old 03-02-2014, 5:16 AM
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I feel the exact opposite of what you said.
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Old 03-02-2014, 5:18 AM
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I feel the exact opposite of what you said.
lol... ME TOO !!
unless i was shooting at small game at close range that is
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Old 03-02-2014, 6:34 AM
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I shoot the M1A and my .223 is a mini. I like shooting both. One goes boom, the other goes pow. When I then pull out the 10/22 it sounds more like a loud fart in comparison to the other two. Yes .223 has less recoil and comes in a lighter platform, but it doesn't have the pure man stopping power of the .308. This is a mans rifle and for its purpose, I friggin love it.
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Old 03-02-2014, 6:44 AM
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I love both
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Old 03-02-2014, 7:19 AM
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Can't remember when the last time I fired the AR. Always shooting the .308's .
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Old 03-02-2014, 6:21 PM
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I love both
I agree.

But is is usually cheaper to shoot the 5.56.
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Old 03-02-2014, 7:21 AM
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When I switch from my AR to my .22 rifle I get amazed. Wow, this thing is so much lighter and I can point and shoot so much faster. But then I think, I can do a lot more with my AR than I can with my .22.

Same goes with the M1A vs. the AR. The AR is lighter, less recoil, more manageable, etc., etc.. But that M1A can do a hell of a lot more that the AR cannot.

OP, I think I know where you are coming from and I'm not trying to knock you. The M1A and the AR are in slightly different leagues because they fill slightly different roles. The direct comparison might not be totally fair. For me, I would take the M1A over the AR any day. That would be from having fun plinking at the range all the way up to shtf.
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Old 03-02-2014, 7:33 AM
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If you can shoot the M14 well, you will pretty much be a far better AR shooter in terms of positional shooting.

When it comes to shooting the M14 in NRA/CMP High Power Service Rifle competitions, the body mechanics are magnified to the extreme.

With the AR, the light recoil allows for a 'sloppier' position (NPA, cheek weld, shoulder stock pocketing, skeletal foundation, etc) and the shooter can get away with certain inconsistencies.

But with the M14, the heavier recoil, particular in the 200 yard rapid fire sitting and 300 yard rapid fire prone stages requires the correct fundamentals in all aspects.
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Old 03-02-2014, 7:41 AM
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Put 10 stripper clips through a Garand and then you can talk about recoil.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:49 PM
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Put 10 stripper clips through a Garand and then you can talk about recoil.
Stripper clips through a Garand???
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Old 03-06-2014, 2:32 PM
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Put 10 stripper clips through a Garand and then you can talk about recoil.
My M1 is very smooth shooting. It's more of a slow push than a kick.
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Old 03-02-2014, 7:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallabing View Post
I spent all day shooting 80 rounds from a friends M1A. It was nice and all.

After that, I picked up my AR15 and realized how drastically lighter and more comfortable it was to
hold the AR15, quicker to point and aquire, and the recoil of the 223, after shooting 308 felt like nothing.

I realized what I took for granted, I feel right at home with my AR15 today, and this only reinforces it.
All day to shoot 80 rounds?

As someone previously stated, the M14 is a mans battle rifle, the AR, not so much.
If you are proficient with the M14, you will be a better marksman with the AR.

Appreciate the M14 for what it is, what it can be, and how it can help you become a better shooter.
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2014, 10:05 PM
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As someone previously stated, the M14 is a mans battle rifle, the AR, not so much.



And what battles have you been in? If I may ask.....
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Old 03-02-2014, 8:50 AM
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C'mon guys, I dont think he was saying the AR I better, just that its better for him. I actually agree on all his points. I would rather carry an AR myself, but when contact is made I want it to morph into an M1A
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Old 03-02-2014, 9:03 AM
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I would rather carry an AR myself, but when contact is made I want it to morph into an M1A

I like that idea
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Old 03-02-2014, 9:12 AM
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TOO MUCH GUN?

COME ON MAN!
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  #18  
Old 03-22-2014, 10:12 AM
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TOO MUCH GUN?

COME ON MAN!
Well said !











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Old 03-02-2014, 9:18 AM
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Take apart a Springfield m1a and you'll appreciate your ar even more.

I love m1as, just not the newer Springfield ones.
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Old 03-02-2014, 9:36 AM
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I love m1as, just not the newer Springfield ones.
Yep, newer Springer M1As can't hold a candle to the build quality of years gone by.

The good news is that civilian M14s from LRB, SEI, etc... are better than ever.
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Old 03-02-2014, 9:20 AM
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I do like both but there is something about the M1A that makes it much more fun to shoot. I wish .308 wasn't so expensive (I don't reload, yet...)
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Old 03-02-2014, 9:38 AM
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I do like both but there is something about the M1A that makes it much more fun to shoot. I wish .308 wasn't so expensive (I don't reload, yet...)
What does NATO surplus, and commercial .308 go for these days?
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:43 PM
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What does NATO surplus, and commercial .308 go for these days?
its all over the place, anywhere from 50 cents to a dollar, and thats not even high end stuff
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Old 03-03-2014, 9:05 AM
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What does NATO surplus, and commercial .308 go for these days?
Haven't grabbed any surplus but the best I have done is .60 cents/ round but I have seen it in the .80-1.00 range.
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Old 03-03-2014, 9:14 AM
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Haven't grabbed any surplus but the best I have done is .60 cents/ round but I have seen it in the .80-1.00 range.
Thank you.
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Old 03-02-2014, 9:44 AM
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I find my 30 cals a LOT more satisfying to shoot than ARs.
M1 Garand, M1A, even my SKS. I prefer the heavy solid construction, the traditional wood stock, the push into the shouler, the authoritative boom and the loud THUMP when it hits steel a couple hundred yards away.
But hey, there's nothing wrong with that OP. Everyone enjoys different things.
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:11 AM
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I find my 30 cals a LOT more satisfying to shoot than ARs.
M1 Garand, M1A, even my SKS.
Let's not get carried away.
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Old 03-02-2014, 2:11 PM
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Let's not get carried away.
I didn't say you should feel the same way, I said that's how I feel.
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Old 03-02-2014, 9:45 AM
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Ocabj makes a good point, if you can shoot a rifle like a garand or m1a accurately offhand or seated then you will shoot an AR even better. If you want to be really frustrated start trying to accurize your M1A.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:57 PM
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Ocabj makes a good point, if you can shoot a rifle like a garand or m1a accurately offhand or seated then you will shoot an AR even better. If you want to be really frustrated start trying to accurize your M1A.
Cant afford to be sloppy with the M1A,forces you to have a solid position to be accurate.Mentally the shooter cant think about recoil ,just sqeeze the trigger!
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Old 03-02-2014, 1:07 PM
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Cant afford to be sloppy with the M1A,forces you to have a solid position to be accurate.Mentally the shooter cant think about recoil ,just sqeeze the trigger!
Squeeze the trigger and send it.
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Old 03-02-2014, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
Ocabj makes a good point, if you can shoot a rifle like a garand or m1a accurately offhand or seated then you will shoot an AR even better. If you want to be really frustrated start trying to accurize your M1A.
The last time I shot targets for accuracy with my M1A (Loaded Stainless), I put 4 consecutive shots in a 0.75" group at 200 yards. The two other people who have shot it for accuracy have shot several sub MOA groups with my rifle, several at 0.5 MOA. Accurizing a M1A is simple, shim the gas cylinder or replace it with a unitized one, get the Sadlak TiN piston or polish the one in it, and bed the stock.

The flimsy collapsible stock on a AR just doesn't feel right to me. The sold feel of a M1A/M14 wood stock works for me.

This one is at 100 yards

Last edited by hbogart; 03-02-2014 at 10:27 PM.. Reason: grammar fix
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Old 03-03-2014, 9:35 AM
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Originally Posted by hbogart View Post
The last time I shot targets for accuracy with my M1A (Loaded Stainless), I put 4 consecutive shots in a 0.75" group at 200 yards. The two other people who have shot it for accuracy have shot several sub MOA groups with my rifle, several at 0.5 MOA. Accurizing a M1A is simple, shim the gas cylinder or replace it with a unitized one, get the Sadlak TiN piston or polish the one in it, and bed the stock.

The flimsy collapsible stock on a AR just doesn't feel right to me. The sold feel of a M1A/M14 wood stock works for me.

This one is at 100 yards

Not to be mean, but this looks something like an inch and a half group, not .5moa like you were talking about. Not that your group is bad, because that is some good shooting, but its no half MOA either.
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Old 03-02-2014, 9:46 AM
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Can't wait to get an M1A. It is one of my dream rifles. I was going to get one at first but instead bought an AK. I think it was a wise choice because I love my AK and it's a hell lot cheaper to shoot but the M1A will soon come. The AR and M1A are two different tools IMO so I can't really compare the two.
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Old 03-02-2014, 9:55 AM
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Accurizing your M14/M1A is rather easy and straight forward.

A tight fitting stock, shimmed gas system, decent ammunition and a really nice NM trigger job are good things to do.
Resist scoping your M1A/M14 rifle for as long as possible, learn to shoot well with the outstanding iron sights first.


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Last edited by H2O MAN; 03-02-2014 at 10:16 AM..
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Old 03-02-2014, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O MAN View Post
Accurizing your M14/M1A is rather easy and straight forward.

A tight fitting stock, shimmed gas system, decent ammunition and a really nice NM trigger job are good things to do.
Resist scoping your M1A/M14 rifle for as long as possible, learn to shoot well with the outstanding iron sights first.


.
Accurizing the M14 might be straight-forward, but actually doing it and maintaining the accuracy isn't a simple task.

Getting a tight fitting stock usually means milling out the stock for your given action, and unless you've got your own milling capabilities, you're sending that action to McMillan or whomever.

Either way, you also need to bed the action, and bedding needs to be redone regularly.

Changing the barrel on an M14 isn't as easy as the AR, and requires similar tooling as any other typical bolt gun with regards to chamber reaming and finishing. Then you get to re-bed, again.

The AR definitely takes a lot of the gunsmithing burden out of competitive service rifle.
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Old 03-02-2014, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ocabj View Post
Accurizing the M14 might be straight-forward, but actually doing it and maintaining the accuracy isn't a simple task.

Getting a tight fitting stock usually means milling out the stock for your given action, and unless you've got your own milling capabilities, you're sending that action to McMillan or whomever.

Either way, you also need to bed the action, and bedding needs to be redone regularly.

Changing the barrel on an M14 isn't as easy as the AR, and requires similar tooling as any other typical bolt gun with regards to chamber reaming and finishing. Then you get to re-bed, again.


Much has changed over the last decade or so, the SAGE EBR, JAE and other modern chassis systems eliminate the need for traditional bedding, so that once valid point is nullified. Unless you are shooting many, many, many rounds in matches or something like that you should never ever have to worry about changing out a barrel. On the other hand, if you can afford to shoot enough rounds to wear out a barrel, then you should also be able to afford a barrel swap.
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Old 03-02-2014, 7:14 PM
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Originally Posted by H2O MAN View Post
Much has changed over the last decade or so, the SAGE EBR, JAE and other modern chassis systems eliminate the need for traditional bedding, so that once valid point is nullified. Unless you are shooting many, many, many rounds in matches or something like that you should never ever have to worry about changing out a barrel. On the other hand, if you can afford to shoot enough rounds to wear out a barrel, then you should also be able to afford a barrel swap.

Folks who still use the 30 cal platform for highpower/service rifle, still use the tight fitting stock and steel bedding approach.

Barrels are replaced around 4k rounds.

Compared to 30 cal, AR platform for highpower/service rifle is easier as well as cost effective to maintain and accurize. Reloading ammo is also cheaper.

I use both - helps me shoot better . . .

Last edited by OpenSightsOnly; 03-02-2014 at 7:16 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 03-02-2014, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2O MAN View Post
Much has changed over the last decade or so, the SAGE EBR, JAE and other modern chassis systems eliminate the need for traditional bedding, so that once valid point is nullified. Unless you are shooting many, many, many rounds in matches or something like that you should never ever have to worry about changing out a barrel. On the other hand, if you can afford to shoot enough rounds to wear out a barrel, then you should also be able to afford a barrel swap.
All of those chassis systems are illegal for High Power Service Rifle matches. But yes, if you are just using the M14 for non-SR use, the chassis system is a definite improvement over the traditional stocks.

As far as being able to afford a barrel change, that's not the issue. The issue is having to wait the turn around time to get the barrel changed.

It's nice to be able to have spare barrels (or even spare uppers) ready to go for the AR when necessary, rather than having to wait for the gun (M14) to be sent off the gunsmith to get rebarreled.
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Old 03-03-2014, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocabj View Post
Accurizing the M14 might be straight-forward, but actually doing it and maintaining the accuracy isn't a simple task.

Getting a tight fitting stock usually means milling out the stock for your given action, and unless you've got your own milling capabilities, you're sending that action to McMillan or whomever.

Either way, you also need to bed the action, and bedding needs to be redone regularly.

Changing the barrel on an M14 isn't as easy as the AR, and requires similar tooling as any other typical bolt gun with regards to chamber reaming and finishing. Then you get to re-bed, again.

The AR definitely takes a lot of the gunsmithing burden out of competitive service rifle.
Yeap! These threads always separate the people who shoot their rifles from the ones who just argue about them on the internet.
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