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  #1  
Old 12-14-2017, 5:35 PM
tamdango tamdango is offline
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Default Out of state off roster PPT

Semi-new here so please excuse the ignorance.
I am a California native stationed in the KY/TN area with the military. I have an FNX-9 which I bought in KY and understand to be off roster here in California. While on leave, my friend took an interest in it and asked to buy it from me. I am military, not LEO.
What is the legality of me selling it to him? I retained my California DL.
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2017, 5:50 PM
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Quiet Quiet is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamdango View Post
Semi-new here so please excuse the ignorance.
I am a California native stationed in the KY/TN area with the military. I have an FNX-9 which I bought in KY and understand to be off roster here in California. While on leave, my friend took an interest in it and asked to buy it from me. I am military, not LEO.
What is the legality of me selling it to him? I retained my California DL.
Since you are active duty Military, Federal laws consider you a resident of the State in which you are (permanetly) stationed in.

However, since you retain your CA residency, CA still considers you a resident of CA.

As a CA resident, it is illegal for you to bring a firearm that you acquired while in another State into CA without using a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27585(a)]
^If the firearm is a handgun, then it needs to be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it.

Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer to import the firearm equates to a misdemeaner per long gun [PC 27590(a)] and a felony per handgun [PC 27590(c)(7)]
^Import = bring into CA.

Therefore...

As active duty Military it is legal for you to acquire firearms in the State in which you are stationed in, but it is illegal for you to bring those firearms into CA unless they are transferred to you through a CA FFL dealer.

In addition... the firearms must be CA legal and they can not include any large capacity magazines. Also, if the firearms are handguns, then they must be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it (C&R, SAE, SSE2).
^The CA DROS system does not allow off-Roster handguns to be transferred in compliance with the importation requirement for CA residents.

However...

If you give up your CA residency, then as a non-resident of CA, there is no requirement for you to utilize a CA FFL dealer to import firearms into CA.

But, as a non-resident of CA, you will not be able to perform PPTs.
^PPT is limited to CA residents.


Bottom line on legality...

If you brought the handgun to CA with it's standard capacity magazines, then you committed multiple CA felonies.

As a CA resident, it is legal for you to PPT an off-Roster handgun with permanently altered 10 round magazines to a CA resident.
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Last edited by Quiet; 12-14-2017 at 6:26 PM..
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Old 12-14-2017, 7:55 PM
tamdango tamdango is offline
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Thanks for the swift response. It's all so unnecessarily complicated.
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Since you are active duty Military, Federal laws consider you a resident of the State in which you are (permanetly) stationed in.

However, since you retain your CA residency, CA still considers you a resident of CA.

As a CA resident, it is illegal for you to bring a firearm that you acquired while in another State into CA without using a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27585(a)]
^If the firearm is a handgun, then it needs to be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it.

Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer to import the firearm equates to a misdemeaner per long gun [PC 27590(a)] and a felony per handgun [PC 27590(c)(7)]
^Import = bring into CA.

Therefore...

As active duty Military it is legal for you to acquire firearms in the State in which you are stationed in, but it is illegal for you to bring those firearms into CA unless they are transferred to you through a CA FFL dealer.

In addition... the firearms must be CA legal and they can not include any large capacity magazines. Also, if the firearms are handguns, then they must be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it (C&R, SAE, SSE2).
^The CA DROS system does not allow off-Roster handguns to be transferred in compliance with the importation requirement for CA residents.

However...

If you give up your CA residency, then as a non-resident of CA, there is no requirement for you to utilize a CA FFL dealer to import firearms into CA.

But, as a non-resident of CA, you will not be able to perform PPTs.
^PPT is limited to CA residents.


Bottom line on legality...

If you brought the handgun to CA with it's standard capacity magazines, then you committed multiple CA felonies.

As a CA resident, it is legal for you to PPT an off-Roster handgun with permanently altered 10 round magazines to a CA resident.
I fully agree up to the point where you say "As a CA resident, it is legal for you to PPT an off-Roster handgun with permanently altered 10 round magazines to a CA resident." As worded, this is correct but potentially misleading unless one keeps in mind that as a CA resident he cannot legally bring an off roster handgun into CA that he acquired outside of CA. If he cannot bring it into CA there is no way for him to do a PPT. You explained this and I am only commenting so that others do not mistakenly take your last sentence as an exception to what you previously explained, which was done very well.
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Old 12-15-2017, 6:09 AM
tamdango tamdango is offline
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So all in all, don't bring any guns home to California. Right on.
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2017, 7:28 AM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
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Inherent in what Quiet posted about giving up your California residency is that should you decide at some later time to move back to CA you can legally bring in all the firearms you own, on or off roster. From the time you move back to the state you will have 90 days (check it may be 60) to either register them by filing a single new resident report and paying $19 or selling them via a PPT. It may not be worth the hassle depending on your ties. Voter registration, driver's license, insurance, home state on military records which may affect where you are paid to be discharged, change state of residence for paying taxes, and anything else pertinent. I assume that you don't maintain a place of residence in CA. Consider that you are limited to 5 private party transactions per calendar year.

Last edited by Chewy65; 12-15-2017 at 7:32 AM..
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Old 12-16-2017, 11:24 AM
tamdango tamdango is offline
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If my dad likes one of my handguns that is off the record, can I gift it to him when I take leave to visit home?
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Old 12-16-2017, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamdango View Post
If my dad likes one of my handguns that is off the record, can I gift it to him when I take leave to visit home?
Since you are military, stationed in KY, that would be a transfer from a KY resident to a CA resident, and such interstate transfers must go through a CA FFL.

Have dad pick a local FFL and call ahead to confirm that the FLL understands Federal law on the point, and does not tell him 'file the form'.

Take the gun to the selected FFL and do the transfer to him. Roster does not apply but fees, DROS, 10-day wait do apply.
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No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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