CCW Safe Referral Code

[ugimports]

I know someone about to sign up and they have referral codes. Please post one if you want to get the referral credit.

Thanks

[69ELKY]

PM’d

[ugimports]

Forwarded, thanks!

[mrchris2]

Need one

[jothompson]

There is a reason why I chose not to participate as one of their network defense attorneys.

Had a call set up with Don West himself when CCW Safe was in its infancy.
They did not strike me as organized or interested in what I would consider to be the most experienced and well suited criminal defense attorneys. At the time the model was to staff the organization with former police union lawyers. With the high bar for even charging an officer criminally, how many jury trials have these guys actually had?

I spent years specializing in defending firearms related self defense cases including homicide and manslaughter. Now I'm a felony prosecutor in an urban jurisdiction, so I have more perspective than I used to and I still would not want to be a member or network attorney for that network.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[jothompson]

There can be a major quality spread with the type of attorneys that are often part of these networks. The truly seasoned and experienced trial lawyers aren't affiliated because they are usually doing well enough that they don't need the extra income, with the rare exception of those few defense attorneys who are gun enthusiasts.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by jothompson

There is a reason why I chose not to participate as one of their network defense attorneys.

Had a call set up with Don West himself when CCW Safe was in its infancy.
They did not strike me as organized or interested in what I would consider to be the most experienced and well suited criminal defense attorneys. At the time the model was to staff the organization with former police union lawyers. With the high bar for even charging an officer criminal jury trials have these guys actually had?

I spent years specializing in defending firearms related self defense cases including homicide and manslaughter. Now I'm a felony prosecutor in an urban jurisdiction, so I have more perspective than I used to and I still would not want to be a member or network attorney.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Which product would you sign up for then and why? Most people don't have the $ to fund their own defense going direct to an attorney. Would you rather use something like USCCA and then choose your own attorney? Given what you know which CCW Insurance type product is the best bang for the buck for the average Joe? Here's a reference point:
https://www.concealedcarry.com/self-...rams-compared/

I'm curious what I should tell my customer next time I see them.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by jothompson

There can be a major quality spread with the type of attorneys that are often part of these networks. The truly seasoned and experienced trial lawyers aren't affiliated because they are usually doing well enough that they don't need the extra income, with the rare exception of those few defense attorneys who are gun enthusiasts.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

What's a good solution for an average person who carries but is not familiar with the intricacies of maters such as legal defense etc?

[71MUSTY]

Originally Posted by jothompson

There is a reason why I chose not to participate as one of their network defense attorneys.

Had a call set up with Don West himself when CCW Safe was in its infancy.
They did not strike me as organized or interested in what I would consider to be the most experienced and well suited criminal defense attorneys. At the time the model was to staff the organization with former police union lawyers. With the high bar for even charging an officer criminal jury trials have these guys actually had?

I spent years specializing in defending firearms related self defense cases including homicide and manslaughter. Now I'm a felony prosecutor in an urban jurisdiction, so I have more perspective than I used to and I still would not want to be a member or network attorney.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I'm kind of glad you didn't go with them. I don't really like my $$$ going to the type of person who goes on the internet and trash talks the competition without even having a viable alternative.

[jothompson]

To 71MUSTY:

Sorry you don't like honest reviews from a defense attorney and prosecutor with on point knowledge of both defensive shootings and CCW insurance If you consider that trash talking, I don't know if you're capable of having an honest discussion.

Happy to answer questions about other alternatives, which I have done below. There is one network I recommend for people for whom carry insurance is the best option.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[jothompson]

Originally Posted by ugimports

Which product would you sign up for then and why? Most people don't have the $ to fund their own defense going direct to an attorney. Would you rather use something like USCCA and then choose your own attorney? Given what you know which CCW Insurance type product is the best bang for the buck for the average Joe? Here's a reference point:
https://www.concealedcarry.com/self-...rams-compared/

I'm curious what I should tell my customer next time I see them.

I've worked with different networks. This probably isn't practical advice for most people, but I'd frontload the money into better concealed carry classes, the types that are well structured with practical hypotheticals, ideally with some pressure or time constraints involved. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Most CCW classes don't spend nearly enough time on the nuances of the law either and it helps to have some perspective both from attorneys who would be defending and prosecuting those classes. In a perfect world I would combine those types of intensive classes with a fund for a private attorney of your choosing. You'll get infinitely better results with an experienced attorney who understands the local prosecutors and police. That often makes the difference between being charged and not charged. I had a client who was being investigated for a double homicide with a self defense claim. By getting involved quickly we helped him not be charged at all at that time. If it was me, I'd spend money on more intensive classes and put a few thousand away over time to have a felony trial attorney on call in case a shooting happens. I used to offer that service to clients for a few hundred dollars because it was important to me that people be able to have an attorney on board immediately before an investigation is tainted.

I think the CCW insurance is not a bad option if you go with the right company. My problem is that the benefits are overstated usually and it causes a false sense of confidence for some of the subscribers that can be dangerous. I wouldn't necessarily count on it if you have a shooting with a bad or at least unsympathetic set of facts but it is a good stopgap.

The one network I would recommend is Armed Citizen' Legal Defense Network. The company is organized by self defense experts (people who actually carry) with what I consider to be the right mindset. Instead of attorneys who may look good on paper but not truly be committed to self defense cases. I've only met three other attorneys who carry and they have never been defense lawyers. Quality control on attorneys is hard but they are making the right steps. When a lawyer signs up, they get Mossad Ayoob books and a six DVD set on the law of self defense.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[hermosabeach]

Originally Posted by ugimports

I know someone about to sign up and they have referral codes. Please post one if you want to get the referral credit.

Thanks

I don’t understand this at all? Any links to explain

[flyer898]

Originally Posted by jothompson

snip . . .
The one network I would recommend is Armed Citizen' Legal Defense Network. The company is organized by self defense experts (people who actually carry) with what I consider to be the right mindset. Instead of attorneys who may look good on paper but not truly be committed to self defense cases. I've only met three other attorneys who carry and they have never been defense lawyers. Quality control on attorneys is hard but they are making the right steps. When a lawyer signs up, they get Mossad Ayoob books and a six DVD set on the law of self defense.

I have taken Massad Ayoob’s MAG-40 and MAG-80 courses. Each is a week of instruction that I found very much worth my time and money. I say that after having been a trial and appellate prosecutor for 14 years. He had a lot to teach, not as much about how to shoot, but more about how not to and what to do afterward.

[jothompson]

Originally Posted by flyer898

I have taken Massad Ayoob’s MAG-40 and MAG-80 courses. Each is a week of instruction that I found very much worth my time and money. I say that after having been a trial and appellate prosecutor for 14 years. He had a lot to teach, not as much about how to shoot, but more about how not to and what to do afterward.

I'd recommend those classes to anyone who is serious about concealed carry. That's why I was impressed that Armed Citizens Defense League includes Ayoobs books in their training materials.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by hermosabeach

I don’t understand this at all? Any links to explain

An existing member can provide a referral code to new people signing up. They earn some credit to their fees. Similar to other services where referring a friend gets you some credit or freebie.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by jothompson

I'd recommend those classes to anyone who is serious about concealed carry. That's why I was impressed that Armed Citizens Defense League includes Ayoobs books in their training materials.

The one problem I see with armed citizens defense league is that it appears you have to convince them to take your case. If they don't like it they won't help. That's how it was described to me. The person that relayed this to me was also a student of Ayoob.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[wpod]

So if you're an average Joe working stiff putting in 70+ hours per week to make ends meet, dont bother defending your life unless you can take thousand dollar + week-long classes ie can afford a $400+/hr attorney.
That or medical Bill's that will be just sa high.
Best case scenario financially is to die at the hands of a criminal.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by wpod

So if you're an average Joe working stiff putting in 70+ hours per week to make ends meet, dont bother defending your life unless you can take thousand dollar + week-long classes ie can afford a $400+/hr attorney.
That or medical Bill's that will be just sa high.
Best case scenario financially is to die at the hands of a criminal.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Or join something like https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/ is his recommendation vs some of the other programs. Look at the chart I posted there are several options available from $100-$500 a year. jothompson basically said if you can't tuck away money he believes the best option of the currently available is the one Ayoob is part of. It's probably better than nothing and appears to be pretty affordable anyway.