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  #81  
Old 12-05-2016, 6:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
So a Sub2000 is required to be AW registered unless featureless - Correct?
Stock already need to be pinned to keep it over 30"... just add a grip fin and it's featureless.
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A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #82  
Old 12-05-2016, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by target_shot View Post
Question -

Can I travel out-of-state for gunsmithing services/classes/etc., with a RAW, and return with the RAW? Any possible violation of transportation or transfer laws?
Legal if transported in compliance with 25610, 16850, and destination requirements listed in 30945
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #83  
Old 12-06-2016, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Legal if transported in compliance with 25610, 16850, and destination requirements listed in 30945


So 30945 applies even if transporting out of state?
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  #84  
Old 12-06-2016, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by target_shot View Post
So 30945 applies even if transporting out of state?
Until you cross the border to some other state, yes.
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  #85  
Old 12-06-2016, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Until you cross the border to some other state, yes.


Got it, thank you!
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  #86  
Old 12-06-2016, 8:21 PM
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Can I just remove the magazine catch and use as a single shot to avoid the "RAW" criteria, registration process.
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  #87  
Old 12-06-2016, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nodiggie View Post
Can I just remove the magazine catch and use as a single shot to avoid the "RAW" criteria, registration process.
Not likely.
There is precedent for a "broken" AW is still an AW.
Same would go for removing the gas tube.

Cleaner would be to go to a bolt-action upper with no gas tube.
You could then run a 10rd magazine but it would not fall under AW classification because it would not be semiautomatic.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #88  
Old 12-07-2016, 7:08 PM
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After registering an ar15 as a AW, is it legal to put a bolt action 50 BMG upper on it?
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  #89  
Old 12-07-2016, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Vigilante View Post
Am I reading this right? You may only lend (while in your presence) a RAW to someone at certain, specific locations including different types of organized shooting ranges and educational exhibitions?


This list of locations, however, differs from the locations where I, the RAW owner, am allowed to use my RAW.

So, I may use my RAW on someone's private property (with their permission), but I cannot let the property owner or anyone else shoot the RAW on said private property; is that correct? This would also hold true on public land?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Correct on all counts.
I'm a little confused on the bolded parts; can or cannot the private property owner shoot the RAW as long as you are with him?
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  #90  
Old 12-07-2016, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by INFIDEL151 View Post
After registering an ar15 as a AW, is it legal to put a bolt action 50 BMG upper on it?
No.

As noted in other threads, the .50 BMG rifle law is intertwined with the 'assault weapon' law, for restrictions on transport and use, and penalties, but they are separate things.
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  #91  
Old 12-08-2016, 6:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Barang View Post
I'm a little confused on the bolded parts; can or cannot the private property owner shoot the RAW as long as you are with him?
The way I read it, and as Quiet appears to confirm, the property owner cannot shoot someone else's RAW, even on his or her own property. In order to shoot another person's RAW, you must be at a legitimate shooting range. Informal shooting ranges do not qualify.
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  #92  
Old 12-08-2016, 8:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Vigilante View Post
The way I read it, and as Quiet appears to confirm, the property owner cannot shoot someone else's RAW, even on his or her own property. In order to shoot another person's RAW, you must be at a legitimate shooting range. Informal shooting ranges do not qualify.
Ahhh! got it! Thank you.
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  #93  
Old 12-08-2016, 8:17 PM
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What is the requirement for storage of an AW In ones home? Does it have to be in a locked container when not in use? Perhaps the action has to be locked with a cable or a Gunvault mag-lock device? Or can it be cocked and locked if one so desires?
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  #94  
Old 12-08-2016, 8:40 PM
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What is the requirement for storage of an AW In ones home? Does it have to be in a locked container when not in use? Perhaps the action has to be locked with a cable or a Gunvault mag-lock device? Or can it be cocked and locked if one so desires?
Only restriction is that a non-registrant must not have access to it.
Safe that only you have the combo to, or locked rifle case.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #95  
Old 12-08-2016, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Only restriction is that a non-registrant must not have access to it.
Safe that only you have the combo to, or locked rifle case.

I'm starting to work through my plan on that important point, being access restricted whereas a non-AW just has to be function restricted. A MagVault or cable and sitting out is ok for a featureless rifle, but not ok for a RAW.


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  #96  
Old 12-08-2016, 9:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
I'm starting to work through my plan on that important point, being access restricted whereas a non-AW just has to be function restricted. A MagVault or cable and sitting out is ok for a featureless rifle, but not ok for a RAW.


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There are no specific storage requirements for non-NFA guns. (At the state level; couple of cities are attempting to re-create Washington DC pre-Heller.)

As noted, RAWs must not be accessible to those to whom it is not registered.

Other guns must not be accessible to minors, if one knows or should have known minors would be around.

Felons should not have access, if any happen to live with a gun owner.

And things like safes are very handy for keeping out most burglars, but if one is not an FFL protecting his stock according to law and local requirements, there is no required storage method.
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  #97  
Old 12-10-2016, 5:39 PM
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If required to show that your AW is registered, do we know if the DOJ is planning to issue a card or some other form of document that must be kept on person when in possession of the AW?
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  #98  
Old 12-10-2016, 7:24 PM
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If required to show that your AW is registered, do we know if the DOJ is planning to issue a card or some other form of document that must be kept on person when in possession of the AW?
Since the registration will be on the web, seems unlikely a doc will exist. No requirement today to keep reg docs with you.
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"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

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  #99  
Old 12-12-2016, 9:09 AM
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Two key words:

Possess: to have as belonging to one; have as property; own:
Receive: be given, presented with, or paid (something).

I would investigate this a little more with your local law enforcement, but I am reading this as it would be ok for a minor under the age of 18 would be able to fire your AW at a gun range. I myself will be asking my local law enforcement agency and gun range. Thank you for you time and have a great day.
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  #100  
Old 12-12-2016, 9:26 AM
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Originally Posted by vhfan2u View Post
Two key words:

Possess: to have as belonging to one; have as property; own:
Receive: be given, presented with, or paid (something).

I would investigate this a little more with your local law enforcement, but I am reading this as it would be ok for a minor under the age of 18 would be able to fire your AW at a gun range. I myself will be asking my local law enforcement agency and gun range. Thank you for you time and have a great day.

Dictionary definitions of words don't always transfer well in legal applications. If they did, you'd get an exchange like this:

Cop: What's this? A kilo of cocaine? You're under arrest.
Suspect: What for?
Cop: Possession of a controlled substance.
Suspect: But it's not mine! I'm just holding it for a friend of mine.
Cop: Dammit! You're free to go.
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  #101  
Old 12-12-2016, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhfan2u View Post
Two key words:

Possess: to have as belonging to one; have as property; own:
Receive: be given, presented with, or paid (something).

I would investigate this a little more with your local law enforcement, but I am reading this as it would be ok for a minor under the age of 18 would be able to fire your AW at a gun range. I myself will be asking my local law enforcement agency and gun range. Thank you for you time and have a great day.
As pointed out - Legal definition is very different, and the only one that matters is that of the LEO putting you in cuffs:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...com/possession

Also not definitive.
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  #102  
Old 12-12-2016, 10:32 AM
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Plan ahead and get all your water, make your lunch, etc. at home or mini mart before loading your handguns and rifles in the car.
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  #103  
Old 12-12-2016, 10:35 AM
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Thank you for the link.
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  #104  
Old 12-13-2016, 4:13 PM
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Is it legal to transport a raw out of California?

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  #105  
Old 12-13-2016, 6:38 PM
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Can we anticipate- gunshops will be converting all their AR/AK stock to featureless and selling it that way ?
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  #106  
Old 12-13-2016, 6:58 PM
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Is it legal to transport a raw out of California?
Absolutely, provided that while within California you meet the specific destination requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iano1 View Post
Can we anticipate- gunshops will be converting all their AR/AK stock to featureless and selling it that way ?
That is one of the options allowed for in the DOJ memo.

However, do not expect chain stores like Turners, Dicks, Big-5, and other shops that do not have an on-site gunsmith to do this.
They will likely return their unsold stock to the warehouse on December 22.
The guns may be refitted at the warehouse, but most likely will be returned to the manufacturer for credit toward compliant versions.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #107  
Old 12-13-2016, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by iano1 View Post
Can we anticipate- gunshops will be converting all their AR/AK stock to featureless and selling it that way ?
Gun shops will simply get armaglocks, or bullet button 2.0, or Franklin Armory DFM. Much cheaper than trying to do a full on featureless conversion.
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  #108  
Old 12-13-2016, 7:28 PM
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Jesus. This stuff is so retarded.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity.

Does a "bullet button" itself now become an evil feature?

Example: A featureless AR, but with a BB installed, is still an "assault weapon"?
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  #109  
Old 12-13-2016, 7:44 PM
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Jesus. This stuff is so retarded.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity.

Does a "bullet button" itself now become an evil feature?

Example: A featureless AR, but with a BB installed, is still an "assault weapon"?
No.

The new law simply redefines an AW as a (featured) rifle/pistol that does not have a fixed magazine.
The old law defined an AW as a (featured) rifle/pistol that was capable of accepting a detachable magazine.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #110  
Old 12-13-2016, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
No.

The new law simply redefines an AW as a (featured) rifle/pistol that does not have a fixed magazine.
The old law defined an AW as a (featured) rifle/pistol that was capable of accepting a detachable magazine.
So essentially, it just makes a BB the exact same thing as a mag release. Right?

"Evil features" are exactly the same.
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  #111  
Old 12-13-2016, 8:09 PM
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So essentially, it just makes a BB the exact same thing as a mag release. Right?

"Evil features" are exactly the same.
Exactly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #112  
Old 12-13-2016, 8:15 PM
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Thank you for the clarification Librarian! I, too, am interested in the BB and under 18 verdicts. My daughter saw my AR and her face lit up, until I told her that she will probably won't be able to shoot it until she was 18 :-(
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  #113  
Old 12-13-2016, 8:21 PM
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What criteria must be met by out of state visitors with "Assault Weapons" into California?

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  #114  
Old 12-13-2016, 8:30 PM
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second___ its the law in 18 days and no one on this website knows the the law in 18 days???? why do we pay this website?? Calguns!! Is THE BB STAYING??? or GOING?? tell us what you know
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  #115  
Old 12-13-2016, 8:44 PM
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What criteria must be met by out of state visitors with "Assault Weapons" into California?
Out of state visitors may not bring anything into the state that is not 2017-compliant, just as today they can not bring anything in that is not 2016 compliant.
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A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #116  
Old 12-13-2016, 9:47 PM
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Just venting at this point- but all the guns I've bought; I've always planned on passing on to my kids. Now I'm being told I have to register them again and that my family can never take possession of them.
How is that not unconstitutional?
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  #117  
Old 12-13-2016, 10:11 PM
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second___ its the law in 18 days and no one on this website knows the the law in 18 days???? why do we pay this website?? Calguns!! Is THE BB STAYING??? or GOING?? tell us what you know
We know that the CA-DOJ is not talking.

Take it up with them - https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/contact
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Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



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  #118  
Old 12-13-2016, 10:12 PM
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PartyBarge PartyBarge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iano1 View Post
Just venting at this point- but all the guns I've bought; I've always planned on passing on to my kids. Now I'm being told I have to register them again and that my family can never take possession of them.
How is that not unconstitutional?
Hopefully the SCOTUS will be answering that question in coming years.
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  #119  
Old 12-14-2016, 2:38 AM
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vmassarano vmassarano is offline
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In response to "iano1", I suspect most all of us feel the same way.

Hopefully, we can pass them down to our kids if we make them featureless. The spare parts we remove can always be saved in case these new rules are overturned down the road some time.
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  #120  
Old 12-14-2016, 9:15 AM
DumpyRocks DumpyRocks is offline
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Maybe I didn't search hard enough, but what if an ar-15 was built with a patriot mag release/ARMaglock and not a BB in 2016. Can this AR be registered still or is registration only open for rifles that have the BB installed prior to 1/1/17
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