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Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun. |
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Options to avoid registration with semi auto shotguns converted Saiga 12 & Vepr 12's?
im asking about converted Saiga 12's and Vepr 12's with pistol grips and fixed stocks that already have bullet buttons
1) can we just use a gas plug and make it a manual action? 2) fixed mag by plugging the existing bullet button with epoxy glue and reload via top load? 3) fixed mag by welding the bullet button hole and reload via top load? if we choose one of these options to be outside the assault weapon category since its a fixed mag or manual action shotgun, can we now remove the bullet button and have normal mag releases, have adjustable stock, pistol grip, muzzle brake and vertical foregrip? any other options on making these a fixed mag? Last edited by defcon; 08-08-2017 at 5:23 PM.. |
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#8
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The regulations "clarified" the new assault weapons laws to include semi-auto shotguns. Until they are overturned by the Courts, these new regulations are in effect. |
#9
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A manually operated shotgun can have a folding/extending stock and a pistol grip and use detachable magazines. ^If the shotgun has a folding stock, the overall length needs to be 26" or greater with the stock folded & non-permanently attached muzzle device removed. A semi-auto shotgun with a fixed magazine can not have a folding/extending stock and a pistol grip. |
#10
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what do you think is better though? manual shotgun with mag release or having a fixed mag with no features? |
#11
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defcon, are you asking because you live in FLA and want to sell to someone in CA? Or do you spend time in CA and want to avoid registering a semi auto detachable mag shotgun? (no answer required )
If the latter, might as well register if you bought since 2014, they know what you have anyways. Otherwise, why not go with a Mossberg 500 and Sidewinder Venom 10 rd magazine conversion kit? If registering, send in note with photos that you are registering under duress, coercion and undue burden to comply with California's statutory "assault weapon" laws that are not within the purview of the Federal National Firearms Act nor the Department of Homeland Security's definition of "personal defense weapon." Then keep within arm's reach at least ten (10) 10-round 12 ga Vepr mags with 1500+ fps 00 buck, Brenneke Max penetrator 1 3/8 oz 1560 ft/sec steel core slugs or DDuplex Hexolit 32s to thwrart anyone who would try to steal your lawfully acquired property. |
#12
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id rather avoid registration do something else. i have no plans to sell. i have a black aces tactical mossberg 500 mag fed Last edited by defcon; 08-11-2017 at 9:29 AM.. |
#13
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There's no such thing as a featureless shotgun, so you should have had a BB even before you converted it.
Is there a reasonable way to top load it?
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#14
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i dont know. i havent tried top loading a shotgun before mine has an aftermarket Chaos rail that i need to pop open before the top cover |
#15
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Defcon, you want to have to pop off the dust cover to clear a live 12ga shell that's jammed against the bottom trunnion with the bolt flush against it so you can't engage the safety while the tension from the springs in the magazine further complicate the clusterF?
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#16
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#17
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Removing the gas piston and perhaps install a gas plug that is solid wih no holes will make it single shot. Instead of plugging the holes. Then you can keep your original gas plug and piston so if you move out of state, you can convert back to semi.
Also you can remove maglock and install a collapsable stock which would still be pretty handy. Maybe add an oversized charging handle do its quicker to reload. |
#18
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#19
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Sorry for being dense but I'm still not quite getting it. Just DROSd the Vepr 12 with the wood thumbhole stock (below). If I plug the hole in the stock, am I considered featureless and good to go (i.e. featureless and thus no registration)? My read from above is that in 2018, that will still not be good enough and I either have to register it nontheless or weld that magazine in place. Is that correct? Thanks for the help. One of these days this will sink in
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#20
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It's not letting me edit for some reason. I should note that my Vepr came with a mag lock installed. Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#21
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i have their plugs and asking them how i would modify it |
#22
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detachable semi auto shotguns are required to have maglocks on it. |
#23
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Sorry for the confusion. This is a stock photo to just show the thumbhole stock. Mine is still at the dealer, waiting to be picked up and has the mag lock installed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#24
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A restricted feature on semi-auto shotguns is the ability to accept detachable magazines. [PC 30515(a)(7)] Therefore... If the semi-auto shotgun accepts detachable magazines, then it can not be made featureless. Quote:
Since you acquired this after 2016, it is not eligible to register as an assault weapon. In order to keep it CA legal, it needs to be configured into one of the following: A. Disassembled parts. ^Kept as disassembled parts and never assembled while in CA. It may be prudent to store/transport the parts in different containers/locations while in CA. B. Manually operated shotgun. ^Remove the gas piston and plug the gas block. This will make it into a straight pull bolt-action shotgun. C. Fixed magazine shotgun. ^Permanently affix (weld/epoxy/rivet) a 10 or less round magazine into the firearm's magazine well.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). Last edited by Quiet; 08-10-2017 at 2:56 PM.. |
#25
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Thanks. Looks like I will have to register it . Not willing to weld that mag in place Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#26
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Since you acquired this after 2016, it is not eligible to register as an assault weapon. [PC 30900(b)(1)]
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#27
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I don't think you can top load a Saiga 12. The feed lips prevent loading the mag like an AR mag (pushing straight down). The shells have to be slid into the mag much like pistol mags.
I tried and can't figure out a way to make it work. Maybe I'm missing something? No idea about Vepr mags as I don't own one. |
#28
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I see this often referenced as a way to avoid registration for ak platform shotguns
Remove the gas piston and plug the gas block. This will make it into a straight pull bolt-action shotgun. Has anyone done this? I've searched all over for a tutorial on how to do this but have come up empty. |
#29
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i havent shot this thing in awhile ill also see if i can side load. i doubt it will work |
#30
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where are you seeing this referenced? did anyone find a solution? i dont even know how to plug the gas ports or gas plug. CSS suggested welding the gas plug. i was wondering if we can just put some nylon pin in the hole on the gas plug. |
#31
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Since it's not possible to load the magazine via the ejection port: 1. Check to see if it's unloaded. 2. Remove top cover. 3. Remove bolt carrier group. 4. Load magazine. 5. Install bolt carrier group. 6. Install top cover. |
#32
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can we remove the piston rod from the bolt completely? |
#33
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Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk
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dictated but not read Voice typing will butcher whatever I was trying to say |
#34
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The flowchart currently shows... 13. Does the semi-auto shotgun have a folding or telescoping stock? ^No -> Legal ^Yes -> 14. Does the semi-auto shotgun also have a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuosly beneth the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical grip? 14. Does the semi-auto shotgun also have a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuosly beneth the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical grip? ^No -> Legal ^Yes -> Violates PC 12276.1(a) This is still correct. ^Update would only change "Violates PC 12276.1(a)" to "Violates PC 30515(a)(6)". Quick summary: Semi-auto shotgun with a fixed shoulder stock and a pistol grip = legal Semi-auto shotgun with a folding/extending shoulder stock and a pistol grip = illegal, assault weapon [PC 30515(a)(6)] Semi-auto shotgun with a folding/extending shoulder stock and a vertical grip = illegal, assault weapon [PC 30515(a)(6)] Semi-auto shotgun with a folding/extending shoulder stock and a thumbhole stock = illegal, assault weapon [PC 30515(a)(6)] Penal Code 30515 (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following: (6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following: (A) A folding or telescoping stock. (B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip. (7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. (8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). Last edited by Quiet; 08-22-2017 at 4:33 PM.. |
#36
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I've tried making a fixed mag that mimics the fixed mag solutions on the ak. It hasn't turned out very well. I'm using a 10 round sgm magazine. It's always had an issue with binding up the follower. Has anyone tried going the fixed mag route?
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#37
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what about adding epoxy to the follower to give it more height??
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#38
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Fixed magazine is my plan just using the factory five round magazine for now until the 10-round factory magazines become less ridiculously priced
My plan was to epoxy it in place or try to attach wings like the dfm AR magazines so that it can only be pulled out from the top of the receiver Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk
__________________
dictated but not read Voice typing will butcher whatever I was trying to say |
#39
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I actually think it's because the guides on the inside of the mag are too shallow? The ribs themselves? I cut a port at the bottom of the mag to load the rounds. On the first time that I compressed the spring, it shot out of the port :/ I then cut the port at the to of the mag directly under the mag well. I then added a coat hanger through the follower that protruded thought the floorplate in order to compress the magspring.Was tricky to load and there was still binding. I'm seriously contemplating getting rid of it and getting a Benelli m4. |
#40
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Just to clarify, I was trying to do what this company came up with. https://www.google.com/amp/www.thefi...ixed-mags/amp/
Though I must say came up with the idea before actually seeing that someone else did it with the ak... Lol |
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