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  #1  
Old 04-20-2017, 6:22 PM
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Default M1 Garand going into battery **UPDATED W/ FIX**

UPDATE: Installed the new bullet guide. It was an original un-worn, post war from HRA. Since installing it, the clip appears to fit all the way down and it takes just a casual bump to send the oprod forward.

Good evening ladies and gents,

I have two M1 Garands. One from the early 40's and one from the early 50's. I have noticed that my earlier M1 the operating rod requires quite a considerable smack compared to my later one. They both fire and cycle perfectly, but the amount of force required to knock the bolt into battery on the early one seems excessive compared the the gentle nudge needed on the later one. Could this be the result of a worn part, or is it just luck of the draw? The later one is definitely looser in almost every way, so that could play a part in the difference.

Both are Springfields, both have new oprod springs and neither shows any signs of worn parts, or peening. They're both in remarkable shape.

Thanks all!
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Last edited by FCOD; 04-26-2017 at 7:48 PM..
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Old 04-20-2017, 7:57 PM
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F=MA

Friction slows it down, Op-Rod spring speeds it up.

Might try swapping, or just comparing, the Op-Rod springs. If one is noticeably shorter or worn, Garandgear.com has some very good and reasonably priced replacements.

Also might try a Detailed Inspection.




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Last edited by Garandimal; 04-20-2017 at 7:59 PM..
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Old 04-20-2017, 8:01 PM
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Check to see if the OP rod is rubbing on the wood, that might cause it to hang up. You could always try to swap the bolts and see if the problem follows the bolt or not. I wouldn't fire them with switched bolts unless you can verify headspace is ok in each rifle. This should at least get you started down a path of diagnosing the problem.
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Old 04-20-2017, 8:34 PM
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OP, you said they both cycle perfectly so do you mean chambering the first round of a full en bloc clip is more difficult on one rifle?
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Old 04-20-2017, 8:37 PM
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Is the OP talking about when loading a full enbloc clip, it takes a smack on the op rod handle in order to let the bolt closes? Or is it on an empty chamber?
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Old 04-20-2017, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdfact View Post
OP, you said they both cycle perfectly so do you mean chambering the first round of a full en bloc clip is more difficult on one rifle?
Yes. On a full en bloc it is more difficult on one than the other. I will check to see if the oprod is rubbing or otherwise binding on the wood somewhere.
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Old 04-20-2017, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandimal View Post
F=MA

Friction slows it down, Op-Rod spring speeds it up.

Might try swapping, or just comparing, the Op-Rod springs. If one is noticeably shorter or worn, Garandgear.com has some very good and reasonably priced replacements.

Also might try a Detailed Inspection.




GR
They are both brand new springs from garandgear

Considering they both cycle properly, maybe I'm overreacting. I don't know.
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Old 04-20-2017, 9:37 PM
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There is nothing wrong with having to slap the operating rod handle to close the bolt. But if it is stiffer than you want look at the following, but don't go too far and turn a non-problem into a problem.

Quote:
45. Bolt Fails To Release When Clip Is Latched.

This condition may be due to the following causes:

a. INSUFFICIENT RADII OR BURRS ON CATCH AND OPERATING ROD HOOKS. Insufficient radii or burrs on the hooks of the operating rod and operating rod catch may prevent them from "riding over" each other, thus preventing the bolt from releasing when the clip is inserted and latched. This condition may be remedied by lightly stoning the edges of the hooks with a fine-grained sharpening stone. Extreme care must be exercised when stoning so that the radii are not enlarged excessively as this will cause the bolt to release before the clip is latched. (See par. 46 below).

b. BULLET GUIDE LOW AT ACCELERATOR BEARING POINT. If the bullet guide is worn sufficiently at the accelerator bearing point (fig. 30), the follower arm acting upon the accelerator will fail to cam up the operating rod catch sufficiently for it to clear the operating rod hook and the bolt will not go forward when the clip has been inserted and latched. Replace bullet guide to correct this condition.
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  #9  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:00 PM
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don't forget to do the tilt test
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  #10  
Old 04-21-2017, 5:31 AM
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I am interested in this as well, purely for academic purposes. My M1 slams the round home right away.....I have to be quick with my thumb during loading or else it'll get smashed.

Good luck OP
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Old 04-21-2017, 5:54 AM
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See if it follows the clips you're using. I used the same two clips for matches for a couple of years, the finish on them is burnished and smooth. No bump needed, which is important on rapids! Pulling clips out of cans with rough texture, I need to bump close - I don't think about it, so I can't estimate the frequency, but it's a notable difference. Just another variable to consider.
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Old 04-21-2017, 5:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
I am interested in this as well, purely for academic purposes. My M1 slams the round home right away.....I have to be quick with my thumb during loading or else it'll get smashed.

Good luck OP
How would your thumb get smashed if the cartridge is going into the chamber? The only time people smash fingers with Garands is when they're screwing around, not reloading.
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Old 04-21-2017, 5:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianinca View Post
How would your thumb get smashed if the cartridge is going into the chamber? The only time people smash fingers with Garands is when they're screwing around, not reloading.
Thanks for the veiled, passive aggressive insult....because that's exactly what you would say to my face, in person, right? Right?
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Old 04-21-2017, 6:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
Thanks for the veiled, passive aggressive insult....because that's exactly what you would say to my face, in person, right? Right?
Yep, on the line in fact.
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Old 04-21-2017, 6:27 AM
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Quote:
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Yep, on the line in fact.
So you are an a**hole who would insult someone to their face on a live firing line. That seems safe. I will be sure to remember that and let the range master know should we ever share the same line.....but I don't think that'll happen. Not with only 600 posts in 7 years.
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Old 04-21-2017, 6:35 AM
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Since you have two rifles with interchangeable parts, you can try switching parts one at a time to see which part transfers the undesirable behavior. Try switching bullet guides, then op rod catches, then op rods between the rifles, testing the rifles after each part swap.
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Old 04-21-2017, 7:09 AM
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I was taught to rotate the hand
Insert the clip with fingers pointing at the ground (gun level)
Meat of the hand past the pinky holds the bolt open
Once clip is inserted, rotate hand so fingers go from pointed at the ground to pointed to the muzzle.

No garand thumb this way


Before you bump the bolt, take a look- is the clip inserted all the way?
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Old 04-21-2017, 7:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
So you are an a**hole who would insult someone to their face on a live firing line. That seems safe. I will be sure to remember that and let the range master know should we ever share the same line.....but I don't think that'll happen. Not with only 600 posts in 7 years.
I might have casually said the same thing to you on the line, but I would probably also suggest insuring you used a straight thumb and "knife edge" of the palm to hold back the op rod handle while pushing down the enblock. No passive agressive insult meant.

My Garand releases pretty quick too, it can be tricky when loading the two rounds for rapids. Probably due to a worn guide or the edge on the op-rod.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 04-21-2017 at 7:22 AM..
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  #19  
Old 04-21-2017, 7:15 AM
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Are they properly greased?
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Old 04-21-2017, 7:20 AM
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Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
I might have casually said the same thing to you on the line, but I would probably also suggest insuring you used a straight thumb and "knife edge" of the palm to hold back the op rod handle while pushing down the enblock. No passive agressive insult meant.
OK, I get it. But I am never "fooling around" when loading an M1.....I am never acting in an unsafe manner. I just don't appreciate being treated like a child. I served in the military, where getting yelled at and derided publicly is normal. I am not in the military anymore, and expect civility, especially from fellow shooters.
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Old 04-21-2017, 7:27 AM
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https://youtu.be/4PL6UyEW218
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Old 04-21-2017, 1:33 PM
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You cant get the so called Garand thumb when loading the rifle. It only happens with a empty rifle sticking your digets where they dont belong
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Old 04-21-2017, 2:54 PM
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Think I found my issue. Took a caliper to some various parts and found my bullet guide (which is the non-notched version) and it measured below acceptable dimensions which can affect timing. I jumped online and found a post-war version that is unissued. Will report back after I get and install it.
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Old 04-21-2017, 3:00 PM
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Sounds like a stiff extractor issue. Gunked up spring and and/or retention hole. Or a rough edge or burr thats causing friction with the cartidge rim.
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Old 04-21-2017, 7:27 PM
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Seems no one is being specific so check you op rod spring for any worn flatspots 6-10" from spring ends, any flats 1/3 to 1/2 with of wire thinkness on 4-6 coils replace your spring.

Is op rod rubbing stock on right side?

Clean inside of op rod with Patch wrapped around .38 brush.

What kind of lube are you using? High temp synthetic wheel bearing (red) grease is fine.

Last edited by 6mmintl; 04-21-2017 at 7:30 PM..
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Old 04-21-2017, 7:40 PM
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^^^ Lots of specifics here. From the OP's OP:

Both are Springfields, both have new oprod springs and neither shows any signs of worn parts, or peening

Seems someone... oh nevermind.
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Old 04-21-2017, 8:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCOD View Post
Yes. On a full en bloc it is more difficult on one than the other. I will check to see if the oprod is rubbing or otherwise binding on the wood somewhere.
If the full clip is more difficult to latch, the follower rod could be hitting inside bottom of stock.
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Old 04-22-2017, 6:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCOD View Post
Think I found my issue. Took a caliper to some various parts and found my bullet guide (which is the non-notched version) and it measured below acceptable dimensions which can affect timing. I jumped online and found a post-war version that is unissued. Will report back after I get and install it.
Sounds like that might be it. Guess we'll be see you at the CMP matches at Camp Pendleton?

https://www.smgunclub.org/rifle/gara...itary-vintage/
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Old 04-22-2017, 7:38 PM
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I'll bet dollars to donuts you don't have a timing issue.

Unless your bullet guide was waaaaay out of spec, you could have peened yours as well. But have fun-that's what it's all about.
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Old 04-22-2017, 8:17 PM
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According to the dimensions on Garandgear.com versus what I measured with a caliper, my bullet guide was definitely out of spec. I know I could peen it, but for a $9 part, it's just as easy to replace.
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Old 04-22-2017, 8:41 PM
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Not going to fix your "problem", but "Experience keeps a dear school...."
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Old 04-23-2017, 5:01 AM
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If you push the clip all the way down, like bottom it out, the bolt will not move into battery until you let up on the downward pressure.
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Old 04-23-2017, 6:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofbak View Post
Not going to fix your "problem", but "Experience keeps a dear school...."
I guess I'll find out in a couple days. If not then I'm only out $9.
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Old 04-23-2017, 7:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seabee1 View Post
If you push the clip all the way down, like bottom it out, the bolt will not move into battery until you let up on the downward pressure.
This I am aware of; however, it is not the problem at hand. The problem is not that I have to smack the oprod handle. The problem is that even an authoritative smack still does not sent the bolt forward. No burs, or binding that I can see. I'll replace the bullet guide since it's the only part I've measured that is out of spec and see if that makes a difference.
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Old 04-23-2017, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCOD View Post
This I am aware of; however, it is not the problem at hand. The problem is not that I have to smack the oprod handle. The problem is that even an authoritative smack still does not sent the bolt forward. No burs, or binding that I can see. I'll replace the bullet guide since it's the only part I've measured that is out of spec and see if that makes a difference.
Had that issue and the solution was so simple

Enbloc clip

The loaded clip was not "sitting" or staying still inside the internal magazine so it blocks (just enough, hardly noticable) the bolt from peeling a round from the clip and going into battery.

If you have one or two get a few more and process-eliminate.

Oh yeah, if you don't reload, start reloading!
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