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  #1  
Old 04-30-2018, 8:50 PM
groverdunerider groverdunerider is offline
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Default Do I have to apply for a s/n for an home made fire arm

So to start off I made all my fire arms back in 2013,there all configured to compliance with the. Law . I put s/n on them back then. As of 2017 I also put my name, city and state ,caliber, as well as modle. So do I have to apply for a state issued s/n to comply with are grateful states new home builders law?
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2018, 9:13 PM
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Vol-Reg before July 1 and you're legal.
If you don't, then you will have to apply for a serial number and will end up with two engraved.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2018, 9:42 PM
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That answer is correct provided you’re not trying to get them registered as assault weapons if that applies to the home made firearms you’re asking about; they cannot be registered as assault weapons with your S/N only but must have DOJ assigned numbers also engraved.


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  #4  
Old 04-30-2018, 9:51 PM
groverdunerider groverdunerider is offline
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By vol-reg you mean volunteer register them correct?. How does one go about that.
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2018, 3:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Vol-Reg before July 1 and you're legal.
If you don't, then you will have to apply for a serial number and will end up with two engraved.
Nope. don't even have to vol-reg either. The weapon in question was marked in accordance with Federal law. no registration required.
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That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
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Old 05-01-2018, 3:11 AM
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Originally Posted by groverdunerider View Post
By vol-reg you mean volunteer register them correct?. How does one go about that.
the California DOJ has a voluntary form on their web site, you fill it out, pay $19 per weapon, and you're good to go. Problem is there is no requirement to register before July 1 as long as your weapon was marked to the federal standards. Which it sounds like it was.
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Dick.

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Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2018, 4:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
Nope. don't even have to vol-reg either. The weapon in question was marked in accordance with Federal law. no registration required.
Vol-Reg is required... or at least SOME form of entry in a central database, be it AOW status, DROS from pawn, previous sale, etc....

The information provided by 80% on their web site is incorrect.
There is another thread with all of the details and multiple postings of the law have put to bed the "don't need to register" debate.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 05-01-2018, 6:19 AM
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Well I’m not reading those threads, I’m reading code. Code specifically exempts a correctly marked firearm.
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Dick.

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Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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  #9  
Old 05-01-2018, 9:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
Well I’m not reading those threads, I’m reading code. Code specifically exempts a correctly marked firearm.
The markings that exempt you from the central registry need to be done by a federally licensed manufacturer.
Unlicensed manufacturers can not apply those markings because they are not licensed according to the section you are using as the exemption.
Hence, the central registry requirement...
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The markings that exempt you from the central registry need to be done by a federally licensed manufacturer.
Unlicensed manufacturers can not apply those markings because they are not licensed according to the section you are using as the exemption.
Hence, the central registry requirement...
The BATFE has stated in many letters and regulations that the manufacture needs to mark the part. They have also stated in print that a self builder is an unlicensed manufacturer.

So you all interpret that as you feel. I’m marking my stuff and not registering a damn thing.
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Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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  #11  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:21 PM
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I am legally engraving mine and not registering. Featureless or fixed mag.
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2018, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
The BATFE has stated in many letters and regulations that the manufacture needs to mark the part. They have also stated in print that a self builder is an unlicensed manufacturer.

So you all interpret that as you feel. I’m marking my stuff and not registering a damn thing.
The DOJ doesn't care WHAT the BATFE allows or doesn't allow.
The BATFE allows you to convert an AR pistol to a rifle and restore it to the pistol configuration.

Do whatever you want and feel free to ignore the recommendations provided by those who have studied the new laws.

But please do not spread misinformation that will get someone sent to jail.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #13  
Old 05-01-2018, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
I am legally engraving mine and not registering. Featureless or fixed mag.
We've been referring to Vol-Reg, which applies to featureless or fixed magazine, not BBAW Registration.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #14  
Old 05-02-2018, 3:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The DOJ doesn't care WHAT the BATFE allows or doesn't allow.
The BATFE allows you to convert an AR pistol to a rifle and restore it to the pistol configuration.

Do whatever you want and feel free to ignore the recommendations provided by those who have studied the new laws.

But please do not spread misinformation that will get someone sent to jail.
Cite code where it's a violation of state law to mark your own weapons?

The state cites federal law. The State of California does not write the laws on firearms identifying markings, What those marking must contain, nor whom can mark them. The BATFE does that and they allow variances and have published letters of clarification on the subject. The BATFE specifically states THE manufacturer of the weapon must mark their parts. The BATFE also defines what a manufacturer is, and they further state that a home builder is the unlicensed manufacturer of their parts, not an unlicensed builder, constructor but a MANUFACTURER and at no time does the BATFE state that an Unlicensed manufacturer must not mark their parts, nor do they state that an Unlicensed manufacturer is required to take their parts to a LICENSED MANUFACTURER to be marked. Which by federal definition would be illegal because only THE manufacturer may mark their parts not ANY manufacturer.

You guys need to learn the difference between A manufacturer and THE manufacturer. as it is spelled out pretty damn clear in Federal law.

As to your mis information statement, No I'm not spreading mis information. I'm citing code backed by letters of clarification from the BATFE. All I've seen you do is say There is another thread with all of the details and multiple postings of the law have put to bed the "don't need to register" debate

I'm not debating anything. I'm quoting law, Federal law. And be advised this is Calguns where half of the people are Idiots the half are trolls and the remaining half try to state facts and makes sense of all this Horse****e. and yeah I said that it only adds up to correct math in this hellhole of misguided opinions that somehow become fact yet so few will google a damn thing nor actually take that time to read the code and the cross references cited. you can't cherry pick what you believe, you must read and take the law into account in it's entirety.

Have a nice day guy I'm done with this crap.
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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  #15  
Old 05-02-2018, 9:45 AM
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Someone please post this thread where the experts have weighed in. I'm no lawyer but Ive read the bill, the new PC, and all of the other PCs referenced in AB-857 (11106, 16520, 23910, and 30105) several times and I don't get why everyone thinks that anything needs to be done for existing and serialized builds...

The bill as written (AB-857) only creates two categories: builds done after June 2018 and builds done before July 2018 that do not have a serial number by July 2018 (in which case you have until 2019 to apply for a number). It says nothing of builds done before July 2018 that already have a serial. There are some exemptions listed but not being exempt does not mean that you have to follow a law that does not exist.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201520160AB857

I know that there were some bull**** interpretations a few months ago where the DOJ tried to change the bill after the fact but as the law currently stands (at least displayed on their website) nothing has changed

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...er=3.&article=

So if you hypothetically built something before July 2018 AND it contains a serial number pursuant to either CA PC 23910 or "Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code" you're good. What do those codes say?

CA PC 23910
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/23910.html

"23910. The Department of Justice upon request may assign a distinguishing number or mark of identification to any firearm whenever the firearm lacks a manufacturer s number or other mark of identification, or whenever the manufacturer s number or other mark of identification or a distinguishing number or mark assigned by the department has been destroyed or obliterated."

Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 44 › § 921 of the US Code:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

Not sure which part to quote since none of this mentions the rules on identifying markings, though it does tell (most of) us all that we are NOT manufacturers, so marking your home build that is not for sale should meet the requirements for the US code, right?
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Old 05-02-2018, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by t0rin0 View Post
Someone please post this thread where the experts have weighed in. I'm no lawyer but Ive read the bill, the new PC, and all of the other PCs referenced in AB-857 (11106, 16520, 23910, and 30105) several times and I don't get why everyone thinks that anything needs to be done for existing and serialized builds...

The bill as written (AB-857) only creates two categories: builds done after June 2018 and builds done before July 2018 that do not have a serial number by July 2018 (in which case you have until 2019 to apply for a number). It says nothing of builds done before July 2018 that already have a serial. There are some exemptions listed but not being exempt does not mean that you have to follow a law that does not exist.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201520160AB857

I know that there were some bull**** interpretations a few months ago where the DOJ tried to change the bill after the fact but as the law currently stands (at least displayed on their website) nothing has changed

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...er=3.&article=

So if you hypothetically built something before July 2018 AND it contains a serial number pursuant to either CA PC 23910 or "Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code" you're good. What do those codes say?

CA PC 23910
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/23910.html

"23910. The Department of Justice upon request may assign a distinguishing number or mark of identification to any firearm whenever the firearm lacks a manufacturer s number or other mark of identification, or whenever the manufacturer s number or other mark of identification or a distinguishing number or mark assigned by the department has been destroyed or obliterated."

Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 44 › § 921 of the US Code:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

Not sure which part to quote since none of this mentions the rules on identifying markings, though it does tell (most of) us all that we are NOT manufacturers, so marking your home build that is not for sale should meet the requirements for the US code, right?
Because these guys think a serial number can only be applied by a 07 FFL which is completely incorrect.
I’ll say it again. Federal code states the manufacturer must mark their parts in accordance with the standards outlined. It does not say “any” manufacturer it says “THE” manufacturer.
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Dick.

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Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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Old 05-02-2018, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
Cite code where it's a violation of state law to mark your own weapons?
It's all been posted many times in the 80% thread.

I'm not going to repeat it here, and most likely, this thread is going to eventually be merged into that one anyways.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2018, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
The BATFE has stated in many letters and regulations that the manufacture needs to mark the part. They have also stated in print that a self builder is an unlicensed manufacturer.

So you all interpret that as you feel. I’m marking my stuff and not registering a damn thing.


G** D*MN I really wish some attorneys will settle this once and for all and make things clear for everyone. Ive read good arguments on both sides Calguns is doing a disservice by allowing all this back and forth and interpretations of a screwed up law. We need something solid based off the laws passed as well as the CADOJ RULE CHANGE proposed in Feb and then updated in April.

I dunno what to do!
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Old 05-03-2018, 7:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
It's all been posted many times in the 80% thread.

I'm not going to repeat it here
This would be the best place to repeat it.
I don't know **** from Shinola about any of this, but kcscott has presented convincing information to me.
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Old 05-03-2018, 7:37 AM
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This would be the best place to repeat it.
I don't know **** from Shinola about any of this, but kcscott has presented convincing information to me.
And if I’m wrong I’ll stand corrected. But not on opinion. I want to see code. As everything I’ve researched says I’m good to up until July
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Dick.

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Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
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Old 05-03-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BMartin1776 View Post
G** D*MN I really wish some attorneys will settle this once and for all and make things clear for everyone. Ive read good arguments on both sides Calguns is doing a disservice by allowing all this back and forth and interpretations of a screwed up law. We need something solid based off the laws passed as well as the CADOJ RULE CHANGE proposed in Feb and then updated in April.

I dunno what to do!

I think the only way an Attorney is going to settle this once and for all is either by defending, or prosecuting someone in a court of law when the poor soul is made into a test case...

Anything else before that happens is only an interpretation, like what we have read in so many threads so far... Interpretation/argument is only good if it is defending successfully in court.
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Old 05-03-2018, 11:24 AM
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What’s really sad is that many of us have excellent intentions to help each other.
A member was banned yesterday over this debate.
Divide and conquer seems to be working.
No one wins here.
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Old 05-03-2018, 12:21 PM
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If you check the webnars on the CRPA website their attorneys interpret it to say you have to volreg. That is enough that I did the 4 non bbraw's I have. You can do multiple ones for a single $19 fee.
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Old 05-03-2018, 5:19 PM
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If you check the webnars on the CRPA website their attorneys interpret it to say you have to volreg. That is enough that I did the 4 non bbraw's I have. You can do multiple ones for a single $19 fee.
Wait you can do X# of weapons for Firearm Ownership Report(aka volreg) at one time for $19?!
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Old 05-03-2018, 5:26 PM
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This is good read too that laws are bs written by monkeys who have no idea what theyre doing.

Why AB 1964 & AB 857 are invalid and easy to challenge
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Old 05-03-2018, 7:07 PM
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Wait you can do X# of weapons for Firearm Ownership Report(aka volreg) at one time for $19?!
Yep.
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Originally Posted by BMartin1776 View Post
This is good read too that laws are bs written by monkeys who have no idea what theyre doing.

Why AB 1964 & AB 857 are invalid and easy to challenge
His entire argument is based on ignoring the PC definition of "manufacture" and claiming that since we are not 07FFL, we are not "manufacturing"

Constitutionally, the laws are absolutely invalid. Same with other California gun laws.
Yes, we may Constitutionally ignore invalid and unjust laws.
Unfortunately, doing so is not without, at the very least, costly, and most likely, life-changing consequences. Many people are in prison or prohibited persons because they decided to ignore an "invalid" law.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 05-04-2018, 2:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Yep.
Thats funny when the form states at the top and instruction on the reverse say $19 per firearm.

Please post a link to the form that allows multiple firearms for one fee.

Here's all I can find

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf
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Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !

Last edited by kcstott; 05-04-2018 at 2:58 AM..
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Old 05-04-2018, 6:56 AM
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This has been a very informative discussion. Good intentions by all.

One of the established ways to destroy an organization (or a country) is to instigate internal dissension and fighting. If we are busy fighting amongst ourselves we won't have the energy and focus to fight the real enemy. I believe these vague laws are an example of this strategy. Even the lawyers can't decipher them (seen any lawyers weigh in on this issue).

Only the courts (by their rulings) can ultimately define the law. Meanwhile, we make our best guess at doing the right thing -- and stick together.

I may disagree with you guys on occasion. And you may ruffle my feathers with your pithy comments. But you are my allies not my enemy. It is sad that someone got "banned" while this debate raged, whether deserving or not. One comrade down.
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Old 05-04-2018, 8:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
Thats funny when the form states at the top and instruction on the reverse say $19 per firearm.

Please post a link to the form that allows multiple firearms for one fee.

Here's all I can find

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf
I read a post somewhere that said there was an "updated" form, but I was unable to find one.
The website for online volreg allows multiple firearms for a single $19 fee.
Here is the link to the website:
https://cfars.doj.ca.gov/logoff!displayLogoff.do
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Old 05-04-2018, 8:52 AM
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Originally Posted by PatC415 View Post
I read a post somewhere that said there was an "updated" form, but I was unable to find one.
The website for online volreg allows multiple firearms for a single $19 fee.
Here is the link to the website:
https://cfars.doj.ca.gov/logoff!displayLogoff.do
since hard copy suggest per weapon and online is multiple for $19 safe to say SOMEONE screwed up! (anyone surprised) Willing to bet online system is fubar, so get them in while you can
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Old 05-04-2018, 1:18 PM
50BMGBOB 50BMGBOB is offline
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I did mine online. It was $19 per transaction and allowed me to do multiple firearms in one transaction.
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Old 05-05-2018, 4:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DueceMcGurk View Post
This has been a very informative discussion. Good intentions by all.

One of the established ways to destroy an organization (or a country) is to instigate internal dissension and fighting. If we are busy fighting amongst ourselves we won't have the energy and focus to fight the real enemy. I believe these vague laws are an example of this strategy. Even the lawyers can't decipher them (seen any lawyers weigh in on this issue).

Only the courts (by their rulings) can ultimately define the law. Meanwhile, we make our best guess at doing the right thing -- and stick together.

I may disagree with you guys on occasion. And you may ruffle my feathers with your pithy comments. But you are my allies not my enemy. It is sad that someone got "banned" while this debate raged, whether deserving or not. One comrade down.

No I think the legislators are very dumb and don't know what the hell they are writing, but it also gives them a point of leverage, the law is vague and ambiguous leaving a lot of wiggle room for the DA's office to play with.
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Old 05-10-2018, 8:47 AM
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When you Vol-registered it did you?

Firearm Origin: include city and state or just USA

Acquired From: did you select "other" and enter "Self Build"
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Old 06-26-2018, 8:38 PM
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Can I get an informed opinion regarding marking my AR 80% lower with my fictitious business name, versus my legal name, in order to not have my name on the weapon if it is ever stolen?
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Old 06-26-2018, 8:39 PM
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Default Marking AR for CA compliance

Can I get an informed opinion regarding marking an AR 80% lower with my fictitious business name, versus my legal name, in order to not have my name on the weapon if it is ever stolen?
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Old 06-26-2018, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by quadrifoglio View Post
Can I get an informed opinion regarding marking my AR 80% lower with my fictitious business name, versus my legal name, in order to not have my name on the weapon if it is ever stolen?
BATFE requires your real name.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 06-27-2018, 1:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
BATFE requires your real name.
Unless you have a manufacturer's FFL (07) in the name of a business.
Then you can use the registered 07 name.
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Old 06-27-2018, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Unless you have a manufacturer's FFL (07) in the name of a business.
Then you can use the registered 07 name.
Correct, but he was asking about a fictitious business name, and by that I am assuming he is not referring to one he published in the classifieds.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 06-28-2018, 7:13 PM
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From the FAQ on the DOJ web site:

How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?

There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you must submit a Firearm Ownership Report (FOR) Application (BOF 4542A), pdf to the California Department of Justice (the Department) for any firearm you are seeking return where no other record is on file with the Department identifying you as the most recent owner/possessor. Having a FOR application on file with the Department will authorize the return of your firearm in the event it is subsequently lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer. If you purchased a handgun from a properly licensed California firearms dealer and underwent a background check via the state’s Dealer’s Record of Sale (DROS) process, a record of your handgun purchase is already on file with the Department. Therefore, it should not be necessary for you to submit a FOR application for handguns previously purchased in California. Unfortunately, this is not the case with regards to rifles or shotguns. Prior to January 1, 2014, the Department was prohibited by law from retaining DROS long gun information.

After reading that it sounds like registration will allow you to get your gun if it is recovered by the police after being stolen, lost or temporarily removed by LE. But it isn't required?
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Old 06-28-2018, 7:57 PM
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here is the link to above post

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#1

Question #26

I suggest you print your own copy for safe keeping!
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