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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 06-11-2018, 5:25 PM
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Arrow Gardner CCW revocation

I don't think this aspect of the OP is clear:
Quote:
Alcohol and places that sell/serve

While not a 'place' per se, California law is silent regarding LTC and alcohol.

Some issuing agencies impose restrictions; LTC holders, as always, are bound by restrictions on their licenses.

A recent case in Sacramento had a carrier convicted for carrying while drinking; that strongly suggests that one's license is invalid while consuming alcohol.
CA law is indeed silent regarding alcohol and LTC. However, the case cited, assuming we're talking about the Damon Gardner case, doesn't set a precedent. Gardner had a restriction on his license stating that he couldn't consume alcohol. That restriction is in accordance with law specifically CA PC 26200 which allows the issuing authority to place reasonable restrictions on the license. Therefore, the implication that this case suggests that drinking alcohol invalidates the license is FUD unless you have a restriction printed on your license.

Just to muddy the waters a little more, we agreed to certain things when we signed the application. It states:
Quote:
While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon:
• Consume any alcoholic beverage.
So, we agree not to consume any alcoholic beverage. This is not law, but rather an agreement between the LTC holder and the state of California. I don't know what the penalty would be for violating this agreement, but you can rest assured it will include revocation of the license at a minimum.


Further, drinking alcohol and handling guns is stupid no matter what the law says so, don't do it.


Going to a place that serves alcohol is another matter altogether. Another bullet from the application:
Quote:
• Be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.
The way I interpret this is, we agree to stay out of bars. Again, it's not against the law, but we agreed to it.

The number one confusion about this is when going to a place like The Olive Garden or Red Robin (really good burgers). Both these places and many like them are restaurants that not only serve alcohol, but are also a bar. Can a person who has an LTC and is currently carrying, carry there? In the jurisdiction of my IA, the answer is yes, you can go there. Just don't sit at the bar. Sit in a booth or at a table that is primarily for eating.
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Old 06-11-2018, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Damon Gardner case, doesn't set a precedent. Gardner had a restriction on his license stating that he couldn't consume alcohol. That restriction is in accordance with law specifically CA PC 26200 which allows the issuing authority to place reasonable restrictions on the license.
Just for neatness, how is it you know about a restriction on Gardner's license?

I don't doubt it - but we could use a source, and possibly an explanation on why that info never made it into public records we've seen.
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  #3  
Old 06-11-2018, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Just for neatness, how is it you know about a restriction on Gardner's license?

I don't doubt it - but we could use a source, and possibly an explanation on why that info never made it into public records we've seen.
See attached, last paragraph.

Of course we could ask anyone from Mendocino county. They will all have the same restriction.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf COI_Damon Gardner sentencing.pdf (57.9 KB, 39 views)
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Old 06-12-2018, 7:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Just for neatness, how is it you know about a restriction on Gardner's license?

I don't doubt it - but we could use a source, and possibly an explanation on why that info never made it into public records we've seen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
See attached, last paragraph.
“Last Paragraph”:
Quote:
These acts violated the terms and conditions of Gardner’s permit to carry a concealed weapon, which was issued from Mendocino County in November 2012.
Lawyers are usually pretty specific about the words they use. “Terms and conditions” of the permit don’t appear to be the same as “restrictions placed on the license.” Even the statute allowing restrictions on the license by the IA differentiates between ‘restrictions’ and ‘conditions’.

(annnnnd......here we go, again......)
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 06-12-2018 at 8:00 AM..
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Old 06-12-2018, 9:06 AM
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We have done this.

New info welcome; discussion moved to its own thread.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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Old 06-12-2018, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
“Last Paragraph”:Lawyers are usually pretty specific about the words they use. “Terms and conditions” of the permit don’t appear to be the same as “restrictions placed on the license.” Even the statute allowing restrictions on the license by the IA differentiates between ‘restrictions’ and ‘conditions’.

(annnnnd......here we go, again......)
Agreed,
Quote:
“Terms and conditions” of the permit don’t appear to be the same as “restrictions placed on the license.”
I wish we could confirm the “Terms and conditions” were actually written on his permit, since that is what the LAW requires. I also wish we could confirm that Gardner was actually convicted or took a deal and the DA was overstating, as that also effects the story.

However even without these gray areas of the case being cleared up it is pretty clear most or all AIs will revoke your permit if you are found to be carrying while you have alcohol in your system and you risk jail time and possibly becoming a prohibited person.
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Old 06-12-2018, 6:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
So, we agree not to consume any alcoholic beverage. This is not law, but rather an agreement between the LTC holder and the state of California.
More precisely, the CA DoJ who owns said form.

You also missed this:

Quote:
Be in a place having a primary purpose of dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.
Does that mean I have to look up every restaurant or establishment and see if their license says they are a restaurant or a bar? This has been discussed lots of times here on CalGun and the consensus SEEMS to be "don't be stupid".
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Old 06-12-2018, 6:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
More precisely, the CA DoJ who owns said form.

You also missed this:



Does that mean I have to look up every restaurant or establishment and see if their license says they are a restaurant or a bar? This has been discussed lots of times here on CalGun and the consensus SEEMS to be "don't be stupid".
"Primary Purpose"?

A Night Clubs primary purpose is entertainment.
A Restaurant's primary purpose is food.
A BARS primary purpose is SERVING ALCOHOL.
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Old 06-12-2018, 9:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
You also missed this:



Does that mean I have to look up every restaurant or establishment and see if their license says they are a restaurant or a bar? This has been discussed lots of times here on CalGun and the consensus SEEMS to be "don't be stupid".
I did not miss that. Please read the whole of the OP.

Since it's not a law, I can only tell you what my IA says about it and that's in the OP.
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Old 06-13-2018, 2:09 PM
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Good post OP. This confirmed my understanding and reinforces my behavior when carrying and when not to carry - thank you. Good advice too.
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