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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
View Poll Results: How much would you pay for Law Enforcement Credentials | |||
$0 I don't want them at any price | 398 | 15.56% | |
$100 | 316 | 12.35% | |
$500 | 748 | 29.24% | |
$1000 | 530 | 20.72% | |
$1500 | 103 | 4.03% | |
$2000 | 211 | 8.25% | |
$5000 | 133 | 5.20% | |
$10000 | 50 | 1.95% | |
$Whatever it takes I'll take out a second mortgage | 69 | 2.70% | |
Voters: 2558. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
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(operation started) How much would you pay for Valid LEO credentials (issued to you)?
For a summary of this thread please go to www.ccwforall.com
---- Just an update: We incorporated the New Promethean Initiative to pursue this (and other 2A projects), and will be applying for 501c3 status during fiscal 2011. we are not yet a 501c3 organization. If you want to support our efforts, We can accept Paypal donations at: DonateNPI@gmail.com or we can accept checks at: New Promethean Initiative P.O. Box 811353 Los Angeles CA 90081 __________________ Quote:
If you could be legally considered a Law enforcement officer under HR218, and able to carry concealed in any state in the union... how much would it be worth to you? credentials would be valid over 5 year renewal intervals, after 3 renewal periods you would be eligable for 'retirement' credentials.... and background check etc... and all sundry processing fees would be included.. please vote for the maximum which you would actually pay. And be honest. Thank you edit: Added graph of market data. revenue is in $1000's Added text of primary proposal Last edited by AJAX22; 10-31-2011 at 9:36 AM.. |
#2
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Those are to be earned, not bought.
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"America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war; America is at the mall." Quote:
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#4
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Um... no... they are NOT earned, they are simply issued, by cities or other governing entities... and in some places it is done with little or no qualification or requirements... CA has some requirements that must be met, but there are other places which do NOT have the same criteria, but still issue credentials which are valid for the purpose of concealed cary under the Law enforcement protection act.
Look, you may disagree with it morally/ethically etc. But it gets you a concealed Cary permit that is valid in any state in the union. INCLUDING CA and NYC. |
#5
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Don't want to get into details right now, I'm just trying to get some data.
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#6
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I would contribute to Carona's re-election campaign.
Whoops, did I just post that?
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#8
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I would pay $500 without a problem.
Based on history from the past ~20 years, I can see where this is going. EG, in Texas, IIRC on US 10, a town was incorporated for the express purpose of writing speeding tickets! There were not residents of the town, just police. Speeders on 10 got tickets, and that paid the cost of the town PD. Similarly, there are whole towns for sale occasionally in the west. Buy one and make a PD. Set the PD hiring policies, and have some reasonable restrictions. Probably most people here are good candidates. |
#9
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Sounds like someone on a power trip. Unless you're going to actually do the job and go through all of the training, why would you want them other than for your own personal agenda? I think a better question would be how can we go about getting lawful CCW in all states and not have the Antigun Ted Kennedy types throw a fit like they did the last time.
I might also add that I think they are earned. If you see the kind of training they go through and actually stick it out, I'd say they earned it. On the other hand there are those that probably shouldn't be there and should have everything revoked. Last edited by Roadrunner; 11-08-2009 at 8:28 AM.. |
#10
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Interesting idea, but I wonder how you plan to meet these employment requirements:
"In order to be covered as a "qualified law enforcement officer," a person must meet each and every one of the following criteria: He or she must be (1) "an employee of a governmental agency..." "In order to exercise the privilege, the LEOSA-qualified individual must carry "the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enf...ers_Safety_Act |
#12
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Are you sure you even live in California!?
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#13
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I'd be willing to pony up $500 for something like this. Any more than that and it would really not be cost effective IMHO.
Still, on a deeper level I'm not sure how I feel about this. On one hand it would be nice to have a CCW that covers the entire country. But on the other hand it brings up my frustration over the fact that in order to get access to something that should already be my right to have I would have to be "qualified" as "law enforcement" which is a load of bunk. But that gets into something entirely different and outside the scope of the OP.
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"People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence, they're begging for rule by brute force, when the biggest, strongest animals among men were always automatically 'right'. Guns ended that, and social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make it work." Clarissa in The Probability Broach by L. Neil Smith. |
#14
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Right on the face of it, I see a major problem.
With respect to selling/issuing/granting LEO status to any individual outside of some odd bod, I have no trouble seeing any agency being slapped right down by either the state or federal authorities - the ATF has shown no hesitation in going after agencies issuing "love letters" for post-ban samples in cahoots with a dealer, so why wouldn't the authorities take action against an agency or municipality selling LE creds? BTW, I've got an extra $1K sitting in the safe, so if you know something I don't know...
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The way some gunshop clerks spout off, you'd think that they invented gunpowder and the repeating rifle, and sat on the Supreme Court as well. ___________________________________________ "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper Check my current auctions on Gunbroker - user name bigbasscat - see what left California before Roberti-Roos |
#15
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I don't believe it should cost me anything to the Govt to be able to exercise my right. The firearms, ammunition, etc; yes, but the Govt, no... This is not what the Framers wanted.
Erik. |
#16
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Quote:
Photo ID and employment are easily satisfied... an independent contractor working for $1 meets the legal definition of an employee... and a photo ID can be whipped up with a digital camera and a laminating machine. Note this would not confer any special powers or privileges beyond being considered to be a law enforcement officer, you would have statutory powers of arrest within a tiny little jurisdiction in a different state, and then only for gross violations of constitutional law. You would be Just LEO enough to satisfy the federal requirements... Think of this like the town sheriff swearing in the whole town, (and a few other towns) as deputies just in case they need a posse some day.... You'd be surprised how little requirements some states have as to what constitutes a law enforcement officer. There is a reason the ABC, animal control, etc. etc. etc. all get to carry guns... and it ain't because they have some magical qualifications... the state says they are a LEO/Code enforcement officer.... so they get to carry a gun.... Now expand your thinking to include the fact that ANY citizen can perform a citizens arrest on anyone who commits a felony in their presence... If a LEO who is outside of their jurisdiction performs an arrest, it is no different than a citizens arrest... they are NOT enforcing law under the jurisdiction of their LEO credentials, they are simply acting as a private citizen performing a citizens arrest. LEO credentials are not a license to run around playing cop... all they are is a license to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the united states (with a few exceptions... i.e. private property etc.) With that in mind, how much would it be worth to you to have a guaranteed method of providing protection for your person and your family? Heck a good 1911 costs more than 1K.... how much is your life worth to you? |
#17
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Well, when you start considering the the homeland foreign invasion provisions of the US Constitution 2A, the current and increasing in-country attacks in the news about "the killer is/or was a Muslim," the World Trade Center bombing, the 9/11 attack. EVERY US citizen should be armed either by some sort of national deputizing, coupled with a PC 832 course, background checks, and competency training, and with the "law enforcement" capacities limited to personal and national defense events only.
Can't we work this out with a reasonable 2A addendum with this national approved training course. The anti's might meet us in the middle on this sort of setup? What do you think? Last edited by Serpentine; 11-08-2009 at 10:28 AM.. |
#18
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Cost me?
Well it would cost the Government $50k+ per year and that's just the starting salary for me to start. I already get paid $24k per year to go to school 7 hours a week. Plus my regular full time job. I'm pulling in a total of $61k. So I'm willing to take a pay cut but it will be worth it in the long run since it will open up more opportunities such as retirement after 20 years etc............. Last edited by Linh; 11-08-2009 at 10:29 AM.. |
#20
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Maybe he doesn't live in Orange County.
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#21
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#22
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It's an interesting idea, if I properly grok what you are proposing.
I don't see how the whole "but what about the TRAINING, what about EARNING it?" argument follows logically. I base this on the (fairly large, I am told) number of of LE agencies and departments who deputize volunteer officers with minimal training. Sometimes it's no more than "hey I know old Bill's a good guy and can handle a gun". Ditto x 10 for the large number of celebrity deputies out there ... hell, ELVIS PRESLEY, Johnny Cash, Shaq, Lou Ferrigno, Steven Tyler (Aerosmith) anyone? When you consider that this extends to desk-jobs, traffic enforcement, part-time animal control or even mosquito-abatement(!?) positions ... why are we fussing over this? I see some possible legal gotchas, but I love this out-of-box thinking. Last edited by dansgold; 11-08-2009 at 10:47 AM.. |
#23
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We don't have to meet ANYONE in the middle of anything... we can just do it. And it may surprise you to know that there are a number of states which have no training/competency/qualification provisions for armed LEO status... which is why the HR218 text was drafted to include: Quote:
***edited to add**** Lol Grok.... Heinlein rocks. |
#24
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I'm in, Dog Catcher for Podunk County, KY works for me. |
#25
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I think you should check the color of the sun in your world.
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#26
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It should not cost a penny to exercise a God given, natural and Constitutionally guaranteed, individual right.
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• “A fear-based approach to regulation will always infringe.” • “Chance favors the prepared mind.” • |
#27
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However here in the real world sometimes you gotta pay to play. it'll cost you a heckuva lot more to fight a concealed weapons charge once you get busted for it than just throwing down a few bills up front for some 'auxiliary reserve deputy' credentials. |
#30
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Quote:
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• “A fear-based approach to regulation will always infringe.” • “Chance favors the prepared mind.” • |
#31
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I voted zero but on further review I would proly kick down $1000. But if we bought a cruiser and some of us volunteered to spend our vacation time writing tickets I think it could be at least a break even deal.
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#34
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This is the first time I had heard of this in the open. I know of more then one person that has a "bought badge". For those that think they should be earned, I whole heartedly agree but they unfortunately aren't in all cases.
Since I lost my CCW after Baca took it away when getting his office, I would be real interested in this idea. Problem is I am with most thinking the government will put the kibosh on this in some way once it is out in the open for every one to see.
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#35
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To be a Secret Squirrel and able to leagally protect my neighbors and those around me? - maybe 6 - 12 weeks of night classes.
If it will also require responding to an incedent where the bad guys aren't clearly defined - never. |
#36
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Something that needs to be considered: Statutory rights to arrest is a HUGE authority. If a civilian detains another person it can be kidnapping. A great deal of authority is given to police for a reason. IT cannot just be given out for the sake of CCW and any agency that would do it should be shut down.
However, in a manner of gathering data, which is what this thread was intended, if agencies could offer such credentials that would give a person this right, what would you pay for it? Hmmmm... not sure. Probably not as much as most would think. I love the convo on these forums, it's delightful to see the passion and expression of such among the brotherhood!
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------------------ -James H. Tippins, Th.M. "Soli Deo Gloria" |
#37
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$500 plus my time to train and be sure to stay current with all laws pertaining to the responsibility of carrying the badge.
Count me in. Semper FI!!! JJ
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#38
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I'm so in. I like this idea And seriously, steven seagal gets to be a cop and go aikido nuts on perps, that means anyone should be able to !
That said, I don't really care about the starting fee, but it can't be so much that it really sucks to lose it when the state in question revokes all the credentials. Few hundred bucks should be ok? Whomever is organizing it would really need to make sure it's a-ok with the state affected. If suddenly there are 20,000 california gun nuts working as sheriff deputies for a rural kansas town it's going to create some news.
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#39
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I think you're confusing legal LEO credentials with the job of actually being a peace officer. Ethically I agree being a Peace Officer requires skill and training. Credentials, well....legally...that's another story.
The oddities of California law on this issue received a little sunlight in the media after the infamous Ferrari Enzo crash in Los Angeles involving Stefan Eriksson, who as it turns out was a "Deputy Police Commissioner" of the San Gabriel Valley Transit Authority. Here is a link to an LA Times article (cached because the LA Times archives are down). --Neill
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#40
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Hmm, I should just call the Contra Costa Sheriff Posse and find out...
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