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  #81  
Old 11-03-2018, 6:11 PM
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sorry, I was confused

Last edited by jimbo74; 11-03-2018 at 8:07 PM..
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  #82  
Old 11-03-2018, 8:00 PM
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El squid?
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  #83  
Old 11-03-2018, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAD LAUNCHER View Post
Nice job Franklin!

Which type buffer does it ship with?
Standard carbine weight.
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  #84  
Old 11-03-2018, 10:45 PM
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Good on you Franklin Armory, it will give another chance to those that were not fortunate enough to get AR-15 pistol under SSE.
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  #85  
Old 11-03-2018, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdang View Post
Sounds like we need to pull the handle on EVERY shot even though the mag can hold 10? Not sure how this is classified as not single shot then.
It's a bolt-action repeater.

If it was a bolt-action single-shot (fixed 0 round mag/sled), then it would meet SSE2 and then there would be no need to get it listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.

But, since it's a bolt-action repeater (detachable magazine), it does not meet SSE2 and would need to be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.
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  #86  
Old 11-03-2018, 11:34 PM
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What options do you provide regarding muzzle device and brace?
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  #87  
Old 11-03-2018, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
If it was a bolt-action single-shot (fixed 0 round mag/sled), then it would meet SSE2 and then there would be no need to get it listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.
Why does a bolt-action single-shot need the sled to be fixed? What is your source for that? It's not in the statute.

LGSs who work with CalDOJ (which is more responsive to FFLs than it is to the general public in guiding them about what is/is not legal) make/sell bolt-action single-shots that are not fixed.
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  #88  
Old 11-04-2018, 6:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It's a bolt-action repeater.

If it was a bolt-action single-shot (fixed 0 round mag/sled), then it would meet SSE2 and then there would be no need to get it listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.

But, since it's a bolt-action repeater (detachable magazine), it does not meet SSE2 and would need to be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.
We brought this to Calguns since we know that it is approved. The lab successfully tested it, we have received the approval notice, and we paid the $200 fee. I would hope that it goes on the Roster Monday, but they may take longer.
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  #89  
Old 11-04-2018, 6:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvberinger View Post
What options do you provide regarding muzzle device and brace?
For every option, there would need to be a new test, fee etc. That makes it impractical.

The brace is an interesting thought. If we knew that the brace was not going to cause a problem with approval, we would haved used one. (SB Tactical is a vendor and Alex is a friend.) Do we know if CADOJ will allow a brace on a pistol? I own one on an AOW that was approved as an AW, but AOW are exempt.
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  #90  
Old 11-04-2018, 7:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
For every option, there would need to be a new test, fee etc. That makes it impractical.

The brace is an interesting thought. If we knew that the brace was not going to cause a problem with approval, we would haved used one. (SB Tactical is a vendor and Alex is a friend.) Do we know if CADOJ will allow a brace on a pistol? I own one on an AOW that was approved as an AW, but AOW are exempt.
DOJ raided a guy's house because they thought he tried to register an illegal assault weapon. In the course of their search, they found a bunch of other allegedly illegal guns, including an AR pistol with a Shockwave brace. The DOJ agents initially recommended he be charged with SBR possession for that particular pistol. However, once they took a closer look at the brace, they understood it wasn't a rifle but a pistol and dropped the SBR charge. (they did charge him for possession of an illegal assault pistol as it didn't have a bullet button or a fixed mag.) point being there's some evidence DOJ recognizes the difference between a brace and a stock in its enforcement role.

I got this from the DOJ report. Can discuss further if you are interested and want to PM me.
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  #91  
Old 11-04-2018, 7:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califpatriot View Post
DOJ raided a guy's house because they thought he tried to register an illegal assault weapon. In the course of their search, they found a bunch of other allegedly illegal guns, including an AR pistol with a Shockwave brace. The DOJ agents initially recommended he be charged with SBR possession for that particular pistol. However, once they took a closer look at the brace, they understood it wasn't a rifle but a pistol and dropped the SBR charge. (they did charge him for possession of an illegal assault pistol as it didn't have a bullet button or a fixed mag.) point being there's some evidence DOJ recognizes the difference between a brace and a stock in its enforcement role.

I got this from the DOJ report. Can discuss further if you are interested and want to PM me.
That could have been a discretionary prosecution. It is helpful, but I think I would need more evidence before attempting a brace pistol.
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  #92  
Old 11-04-2018, 7:34 AM
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Can't wait to see a full picture of it.. and video of its use
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  #93  
Old 11-04-2018, 7:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
That could have been a discretionary prosecution. It is helpful, but I think I would need more evidence before attempting a brace pistol.

As a buyer,maybe would be prudent to fix the mag,AOW the pistol, and then put on brace.
At that point a vertical foregrip would be A-OK as well.

Also flash hider would not need to be pinned because fixed magazine- correct?
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  #94  
Old 11-04-2018, 8:07 AM
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In for a 9mm version!!
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  #95  
Old 11-04-2018, 8:13 AM
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Still curious to hear the rational for why or how you were able to bypass the microstamping requirement to be put on the roster. From my understanding, unless grandfathered in, all new guns on the roster need that requirement.
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  #96  
Old 11-04-2018, 8:17 AM
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California only requires micro stamping for Semiauto firearms, which this firearm is not.
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  #97  
Old 11-04-2018, 8:44 AM
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California only requires micro stamping for Semiauto firearms, which this firearm is not.
I thought it would then just be exempt from the roster. Not approved for the roster.. hmm
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  #98  
Old 11-04-2018, 9:15 AM
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Originally Posted by caliguy93 View Post
I thought it would then just be exempt from the roster. Not approved for the roster.. hmm
Think in terms of a Semmerling LM4. That was my inspiration when I was contemplating such a similar design for the AR. It's not semi-auto, but a slide that is manually operated on a multi-shot "repeater" with a detachable magazine. It looks like it would be a semi-auto pistol, but is not.

Yet, it's not subject to microstamping no different than revolvers that still need to be approved for the Roster. Multi-shot, but not semi-auto.

.
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  #99  
Old 11-04-2018, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
That could have been a discretionary prosecution. It is helpful, but I think I would need more evidence before attempting a brace pistol.
Also, (against my recommendation to do so) many people successfully registered pistols with braces as BBRAWs. They sent pics with their braces on, DOJ has never rejected any of them or knocked on anyone's doors about them.

Again, not a 100% confirmation that braces are legal to use, but it seems to indicate that DOJ isn't willing to currently take the position that they aren't legal.

It is perhaps worth a conversation with DOJ about, as something to pursue. And if they say yes, then it would answer the brace question for not only your pistol, but everyone's.
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  #100  
Old 11-04-2018, 10:02 AM
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Will it be available at turners? Will it be available before newscum becomes governor?
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  #101  
Old 11-04-2018, 10:07 AM
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Will it be available at turners? Will it be available before newscum becomes governor?
Now why do you have to go and put that out there.... think positive!!!!

.


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  #102  
Old 11-04-2018, 10:08 AM
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Lol sorry man, this election is making me nervous haha
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  #103  
Old 11-04-2018, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Also, (against my recommendation to do so) many people successfully registered pistols with braces as BBRAWs. They sent pics with their braces on, DOJ has never rejected any of them or knocked on anyone's doors about them.

Again, not a 100% confirmation that braces are legal to use, but it seems to indicate that DOJ isn't willing to currently take the position that they aren't legal.

It is perhaps worth a conversation with DOJ about, as something to pursue. And if they say yes, then it would answer the brace question for not only your pistol, but everyone's.
If true, that is great evidence that it is legal.
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  #104  
Old 11-04-2018, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Also, (against my recommendation to do so) many people successfully registered pistols with braces as BBRAWs. They sent pics with their braces on, DOJ has never rejected any of them or knocked on anyone's doors about them.

Again, not a 100% confirmation that braces are legal to use, but it seems to indicate that DOJ isn't willing to currently take the position that they aren't legal.

It is perhaps worth a conversation with DOJ about, as something to pursue. And if they say yes, then it would answer the brace question for not only your pistol, but everyone's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
If true, that is great evidence that it is legal.
To add to that.

I successfully registered at pistols with arm brace as well as successfully registered an ar pistol built from an 80% lower, vol regd as single shot exempt break action that had been converted to semi auto. I have also successfully registered an AR pistol that was dros’d As a single shot break action pistol and later converted. I have letters in hand
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  #105  
Old 11-04-2018, 8:35 PM
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I love that this has become a thing, it's very innovative and allows us to have an AR pistol option with a detachable mag. My only concern is the time between fallow up shots. What about making it pump action? It would definitely speed up the process of chambering a new round due to the fact that the action is where your support grip should be.

Also would love to see this in .458 SOCOM.

Last edited by Lefty1911; 11-04-2018 at 9:06 PM..
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  #106  
Old 11-04-2018, 9:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lefty1911 View Post
What about making it pump action? It would definitely speed up the process of chambering a new round due to the fact that the action is where your support grip should be.
Like a seperate attachment below the handgaurd, which would push back the
charging handle. You or someone else might want to create your own company design and making such add-on product yourself. Crazy ideas.. keep em coming!
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  #107  
Old 11-04-2018, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVGUY View Post
Like a seperate attachment below the handgaurd, which would push back the
charging handle. You or someone else might want to create your own company design and making such add-on product yourself. Crazy ideas.. keep em coming!
they already exist. you wouldn't have to move the charging handle at all. The pump action takes the place of the gas block and tube.

something else: I think you could remove the buffer system entirely, and shorten the BCG if a locking mechanism was made up like when you charge a pump action shotgun.

big fan of DFA buffer system but I'm an even bigger fan of eliminating the buffer system entirely if it's not needed.
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  #108  
Old 11-05-2018, 7:30 AM
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Can someone with machining skills make a front hand guard with a sliding wrapped around handle attached to an action bar connected to the side charging AR upper's (left side) charging handle?

This will make a quick, simple pump action repeater upgrade for the new CA7 pistol.
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  #109  
Old 11-05-2018, 9:04 AM
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If you installed a vertical forward grip would that make this an AW?
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  #110  
Old 11-05-2018, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty1911 View Post
If you installed a vertical forward grip would that make this an AW?
No because it is not semiautomatic. However, ATF would require an AOW tax stamp. An angled grip would suffice.

Interesting fact.... Nothing in the AOW definition uses the word "vertical" in context with the grip. ATF just interprets a second hand grip as such.
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  #111  
Old 11-05-2018, 9:54 AM
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One more question for Franklin.

Barrel gas port and gas block are drilled through but plugged?

And if so-how is it plugged?
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  #112  
Old 11-05-2018, 9:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAD LAUNCHER View Post
One more question for Franklin.

Barrel gas port and gas block are drilled through but plugged?

And if so-how is it plugged?
Barrel is not drilled.
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  #113  
Old 11-05-2018, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
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Barrel is not drilled.
Copy that.

Thanks for the quick replies
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  #114  
Old 11-05-2018, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
No because it is not semiautomatic. However, ATF would require an AOW tax stamp. An angled grip would suffice.

Interesting fact.... Nothing in the AOW definition uses the word "vertical" in context with the grip. ATF just interprets a second hand grip as such.
what if the barrel was longer?
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  #115  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty1911 View Post
what if the barrel was longer?
Then it needs a stock, too.
But, at that point it's just a regular rifle, so handgun roster restrictions would not be relevant.
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  #116  
Old 11-05-2018, 2:16 PM
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franklinarmory~ Love it! This is now on the top of my wish list.

Just an FYI on CCW. I have a permit in Sacramento County. They have this rule. No rifle caliber CCW.

https://sacramentoca.permitium.com/ccw/start

Firearms

A total of three (3) firearms can be listed on your permit. Be sure each firearm you list on your Concealed Weapon Permit is registered to you or your spouse/registered domestic partner. This can only be done if the two of you reside together. The firearm(s) cannot be registered to any other family member. You may not add rifle caliber weapons (AR-Pistol, AK-Pistol, etc.) to your CCW permit.
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  #117  
Old 11-05-2018, 2:22 PM
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So, uhh, you guys don’t happen to make pistol caliber lowers that accept Glock magazines, do you? (Hint-hint)

But for reals, I’m gonna need one of these fine bolt actions, but I’m probably not gonna convince my wife that’s I’ve always had this old thing lying around...
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  #118  
Old 11-05-2018, 3:32 PM
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Would it be legal to cerakote the word "BLACKBEARD" on this gun?
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  #119  
Old 11-05-2018, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
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Just an FYI on CCW. I have a permit in Sacramento County. They have this rule. No rifle caliber CCW.
You could pick up a 9mm upper and a Mean Arms EndoMag...
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  #120  
Old 11-05-2018, 4:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienHobo View Post
You could pick up a 9mm upper and a Mean Arms EndoMag...
I know every county is different, but here's where my county would have issues:

Quote:
The weapon shall be the product of a recognized manufacturer free from mechanical and other flaws, within tolerances determined by manufacturer’s specifications, and in good working order.

Weapons approved shall be either revolver or semi-automatic with an ammunition capacity of no less than five rounds.

Weapons must have a bullet with a specification of no less than .25 calibers, nor greater than .45 calibers. Derringer or other “hide-away” type weapons, or “single shot” weapons are not licensed. If the weapon is listed as a “single shot” weapon with the Department of Justice, it is prohibited from being carried as a concealed weapon.

There is a maximum of three (3) weapons allowed on a CCW permit.

Any weapon listed on a CCW license must be registered with California Department of Justice, Firearms Bureau to the holder of the license. If you have brought the gun in from another state or are uncertain if the gun is registered to you, you must verify that the weapons are indeed registered to you with DOJ. You can use a weapon owned by a spouse, if the firearm is registered to them.

We allow modification to enhance sighting such as laser sights and or night sights. This includes modifications to grips. We do not allow modifications to the weapons that would alter it from the manufacturer’s original setting
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2019 CA Legislation Quick-Reference & Statuses

Don't panic. As of 11/21/2018, only around 40% of BBRAW applicants have received their letter. DOJ is still actively processing them... slowly. In the meantime:


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