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  #41  
Old 10-31-2018, 9:22 AM
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P-01 or PCR if you don't care about a rail. SP-01 if you like boat anchors. Glock if you want a striker fired polymer pistol.
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  #42  
Old 10-31-2018, 11:17 AM
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Since you have two 1911's in .45, I recommend the 9mm Glock 19 (or 17). Just so you have your bases covered for when people call you a fan boy!

But seriously, you have the big steel .45, try something much different in the G19 (I prefer the G17), and diversify your shooting experience. Shooting the 19 will improve your shooting with the 1911s. Everyone and their mother can shoot .45 1911s well.
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  #43  
Old 10-31-2018, 12:28 PM
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Coming from a 1911 Iím assuming you like a crisp, clean break on the trigger as a heavy preference for your firearms.

I own both a 19 and an SP01 and neither will satisfy you out of the box. The Glock is mushy, but can be enhanced quite easily with a multitude of drop in trigger kits. This can greatly reduce the pull weight/take up/overtravel/reset etc, and can be adjusted fairly easily by the user.

The stock SP01 trigger is..... not good. At all. Overly heavy DA pull with stacking, a SA pull that has a ton of creep and grit depending on the individual gun... my benchmark for triggers is a nice Smith revolverís SA break with some action work done.. and the SP01 stock trigger makes me wonder if the two are both even part of the same category (handguns).

The SP01 trigger can be enhanced greatly but requires a fair bit more work than the Glock. Itís at heart an old design and they are not easy guns to work on, to the extent that I wouldnít really mess with it personally unless you feel you are a fairly competent gunsmith.

I know it wasnít on your list of firearms, but the closest Iíve found to the crisp break of a 1911/Revolver SA trigger in either DA/SA or striker fired is probably the Beretta 92 variantís SA break. Thereís a fair bit of slop but once you hit the wall the break is like Biscotti snapping in half. Berettas are also fairly easy to work on yourself at home.

Just my .02 - good luck!
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  #44  
Old 10-31-2018, 12:39 PM
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"the G19 seems like the smarter choice because of the track record and aftermarket"

well stated ...
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  #45  
Old 10-31-2018, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litespeeds View Post
If you go shoot a Glock 19 and also shoot a CZ SP-01, you will know which one to buy.
The PCR (with decocker only) is completely different than the SP-01 for me... trigger on the PCR is 5x better, plus it is Glock 19 sized.

Don't get me wrong with all the CZ talk. Glocks and specifically Gen3 that are on-roster here, are amazing - preferably with about $15 in trigger upgrade for me, and as much as you want to spend on steel sights. I have one RTF2 that came with factory GNS (Ameriglo three dots) and they are OK, but prefer adding something I like better. The plastic ones have to go... even the adjustable ones on a 34 or 41, etc...

I have 3 CZ knock-offs that have better stock triggers than stock CZ's... 3 CZ's and I love the trigger on the PCR - love the PCR in general. Trigger on a 40B is meh and is similar to the trigger on the SP-01.

Glocks, I lost count how many models and slides. A bunch. Usually they have a TTI connector or ZEV, or at least a Glock Minus. Cheap upgrade.
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  #46  
Old 11-01-2018, 11:05 AM
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I rented and shot a P2000. Itís was just ok to be honest. Very unbalanced gun just wasnít for me. I shot it in 40 and 9mm. Iím a steel gun guy myself and toyed with the idea of a polymer pistol for a while for some variety. Glock 19 is a great gun. Insanely low recoil light weight and pretty balanced for a polymer framed gun. To my surprise the grip angle was pretty comfortable too. My gripe with the Glock is that itís just so damn ugly. Good news is after a while you can customize if that bothers you.


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  #47  
Old 11-01-2018, 11:22 AM
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P226 because life's to short to shoot cheap guns...besides,they're friggin awesome.
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  #48  
Old 11-01-2018, 1:07 PM
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Way back in the day, "they" used to say CZ's and Baby Eagles, etc... were inexpensive but just as good as a SIG or HK. They were mostly correct IMHO. Today I think SIG's are not as good as they were and CZ's and the clones are better than they were. Cool story bro.
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  #49  
Old 11-01-2018, 1:14 PM
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I am a huge 1911 fan and shoot one in USPSA. I recently bought an SP01, made some modifications and now run that in USPSA. Easy transition from the 1911. Lots of mods available but not required.

I carry an XDSC and that also has a similar grip angle that I am used to.

I would not want to swap to a Glock if you are also a 1911 fan. The DA/SA from SAO is not a huge transition to have to master but is made easier with some practice and even mods.
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  #50  
Old 11-01-2018, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaterade View Post
Coming from a 1911 I’m assuming you like a crisp, clean break on the trigger as a heavy preference for your firearms.

I own both a 19 and an SP01 and neither will satisfy you out of the box. The Glock is mushy, but can be enhanced quite easily with a multitude of drop in trigger kits. This can greatly reduce the pull weight/take up/overtravel/reset etc, and can be adjusted fairly easily by the user.

The stock SP01 trigger is..... not good. At all. Overly heavy DA pull with stacking, a SA pull that has a ton of creep and grit depending on the individual gun... my benchmark for triggers is a nice Smith revolver’s SA break with some action work done.. and the SP01 stock trigger makes me wonder if the two are both even part of the same category (handguns).

The SP01 trigger can be enhanced greatly but requires a fair bit more work than the Glock. It’s at heart an old design and they are not easy guns to work on, to the extent that I wouldn’t really mess with it personally unless you feel you are a fairly competent gunsmith.

I know it wasn’t on your list of firearms, but the closest I’ve found to the crisp break of a 1911/Revolver SA trigger in either DA/SA or striker fired is probably the Beretta 92 variant’s SA break. There’s a fair bit of slop but once you hit the wall the break is like Biscotti snapping in half. Berettas are also fairly easy to work on yourself at home.

Just my .02 - good luck!
I completely disagree that the SP01 is difficult to work on. I took my SP01 apart for an internal polishing and it was no more difficult than when I completely overhauled my 92fs. All you need is a slave pin to put the trigger back in but its super easy to fashion one from a nail or paper clip. Not a big deal at all. I dont know why anyone sends their CZ off to CJW for work when all you really need is an internet connection. I will say that after I polished everything really well it made very little difference. What really makes a noticeable difference is upgrading to a reduced power hammer spring and replacing the sear and hammer. The stock sear and hammer are so crudely manufactured that you can polish them all day and they will never improve enough to make much of a difference. In the end I ditched the SP01 with the plan to eventually replace it with a TS.

This tutorial right here is perfect:

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/1...ofessor-atlas/
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Last edited by lightcav; 11-01-2018 at 1:53 PM..
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  #51  
Old 11-01-2018, 2:12 PM
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I own all 4 you’re interested in. The only gun I’ve kept stock, is the HK P2K LEM. I highly recommend the V2 LEM Model. Anybody who shoots mine, is always surprised how amazing it shoots.

OP, definitely rent the LEM model before ruling out the P2K. I’d take it every day over my Glock, and in fact left the G19 off my carry permit and instead have my HK P2000
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  #52  
Old 11-01-2018, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlockN'Roll View Post
All good choices but the G19, out sells them all, for a reason.
..
Discounted LEO sales is the reason, which fuels the civilian sales.
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  #53  
Old 11-01-2018, 6:01 PM
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I pretty much ruled out the SP01. Cant find a P2000 LEM anywhere near me.

Going to take another look at the G19 this weekend and the P2000. Thinking I want a polymer gun now and now I'm open to used on the local market. I guess that different gun is what I'm needing. Hammer or striker, doesn't matter, but polymer 9mm is in the sights.

I was eyeing $750 for this gun, Max. But seeing how off roster are rare in the state, I'm pretty open to checking the VP9 and CZ P07/09/10 for those that moved in with it.
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  #54  
Old 11-01-2018, 6:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucDan View Post
I pretty much ruled out the SP01. Cant find a P2000 LEM anywhere near me.

Going to take another look at the G19 this weekend and the P2000. Thinking I want a polymer gun
Big mistake. Go shoot them before deciding.
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  #55  
Old 11-01-2018, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucDan View Post
I pretty much ruled out the SP01. Cant find a P2000 LEM anywhere near me.

Going to take another look at the G19 this weekend and the P2000. Thinking I want a polymer gun now and now I'm open to used on the local market. I guess that different gun is what I'm needing. Hammer or striker, doesn't matter, but polymer 9mm is in the sights.

I was eyeing $750 for this gun, Max. But seeing how off roster are rare in the state, I'm pretty open to checking the VP9 and CZ P07/09/10 for those that moved in with it.
Personally, I'd pass on the SP01 and save up for a Tactical Sport. You can upgrade the SP01 all you want but it will never be on par with a TS. Get a P01/PCR and or TS or even a 97b if you want a really cool all steel .45 that isnt a 1911. The 97b is the only CZ I have at this time and the trigger is way better out of the box than the SP01 was. I dont know if I got lucky or if all 97b triggers are like that. Just beware the 97b and TS are large frame so guys with dainty hands might have "issues".
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  #56  
Old 11-01-2018, 7:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucDan View Post
Will be a range and bedside gun. I don't like specifying guns for specific duties.
The Tac Sport would make an awesome range toy but it will be a terrible bedside gun. If he can't afford a Sig P226, then he's not going to be able to afford the Tac Sport.

If you are going to pass on the SP-01, then go get the CZ PCR.
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  #57  
Old 11-01-2018, 7:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litespeeds View Post
Big mistake. Go shoot them before deciding.
Any gun that doesn't have a crisp single action of a nice 1911 will suck, and I've come to accept that. So I figured for a smaller ~4" barrel gun.

They say the vp9 is close to a SA trigger of a 1911. I'm very interested in trying it.

I'll call around the ranges to see if I can rent them, for sure.
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  #58  
Old 11-01-2018, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by smarty mcfly View Post
S&W sd9ve and lots of ammo after a few hundred rounds trigger smooths out it is still a little heavy but you can train through it. Add apex springs for $20 an inexpensive upgrade.
Those are literally the most underrated handguns. Lots of mods for them too. Great pistol at a great well under $300 price.
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  #59  
Old 11-01-2018, 8:07 PM
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Sig SP2022.

Try it; you'll like it.


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  #60  
Old 11-01-2018, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucDan View Post
Any gun that doesn't have a crisp single action of a nice 1911 will suck, and I've come to accept that. So I figured for a smaller ~4" barrel gun.

They say the vp9 is close to a SA trigger of a 1911. I'm very interested in trying it.

I'll call around the ranges to see if I can rent them, for sure.
Well a VP9 is going to be way out of your price range for this excercise. If you are interested in a VP9 try a PPQ M2. I have both and think the trigger on the PPQ is better; lighter, smoother with a crisper break. It does have more take up but its so smooth, light and crisp that its really impossible to miss with that thing. The best way I can describe the PPQ trigger is its like the Geisselle SSA-E in a pistol. A super light smooth crisp two stage like trigger that can be used as a single stage since the first stage is so light and smooth you just pull right though it to the second stage with the break. Not to mention the M2 has a standard push button mag release which is easy to reach with your thumb instead of the silly paddle release on the VP9. In fact come to think of it, the PPQ trigger is so light, you should want the trigger pull to be long on purpose since if it was any shorter it would be downright hazardous.
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Last edited by lightcav; 11-01-2018 at 8:53 PM..
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  #61  
Old 11-01-2018, 11:14 PM
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If priced close enough, I'd reach for it. I can see the P2000 used for about $600 in SD, so it is viable. G19 can be found often. Trying to see who has the Walther, not even turners here.

I really do think I want polymer for this one. I've even considered the Sd9VE now. But I do not like the XD9, terrible mushy trigger.

This is better than any other type of shopping, ha.
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  #62  
Old 11-01-2018, 11:30 PM
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My personal solution is that I have a G19, SP01, P75D Compact and a PPQ. P2000 just did not interest me.


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  #63  
Old 11-02-2018, 1:11 PM
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I tried the sd9ve it had a horrible trigger. Went with an xd9. I don't have issue with the trigger, but there are upgrades available for thexd9
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  #64  
Old 11-02-2018, 1:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucDan View Post
If priced close enough, I'd reach for it. I can see the P2000 used for about $600 in SD, so it is viable. G19 can be found often. Trying to see who has the Walther, not even turners here.

I really do think I want polymer for this one. I've even considered the Sd9VE now. But I do not like the XD9, terrible mushy trigger.

This is better than any other type of shopping, ha.
If youíre ever up north a little towards Temecula, Iíd be more than happy to let you pull the HK LEM trigger. Send me a PM
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  #65  
Old 11-02-2018, 3:36 PM
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I have a "few" HK's and my .40 SW HK P2000sk with the LIGHT LEM trigger is very definitely an exceptional handgun. The LEM trigger is a major asset. Taking it from the standard 8# pull to a 4.5-5# is the simple substitution of two tiny springs. I'm not sure that the P2K DA/SA model can be converted to LEM though. Check with HKPro.com for all info HK.

When checking out the HK LEM trigger (empty mag and chamber!), you MUST rack the slide FIRST. THEN check the trigger pull. Once the hammer is released, continue holding the trigger fully engaged as you rack the slide again. Now slowly release the trigger until you hear/feel the reset "click" - It's now ready to fire again.

The HK LEM has the advantages of a striker-fired pistol with an EXTERNAL hammer. That means when you holster, with your thumb on the hammer, if the trigger moves at all, the hammer will also move. Kinda nice not putting holes in your leg, foot, floor, etc. like some strikers do...

On my LEM's, the only safety lever I have is called the trigger. No other safety levers. Keep your finger off the trigger and it won't fire. Kind of simple that way. The LEM does have a longer trigger pull than most but that's part of the safety mechanism. Once you're aware of it, it's no problem. One other advantage is for quick mag changes. Use the middle finger of your strong hand to push the paddle lever down (natural arch for that finger). Mag drops while your weak hand slides the new mag into the well. All done while maintaining full control of the pistol.
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  #66  
Old 11-02-2018, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
...The LEM does have a longer trigger pull than most but that's part of the safety mechanism. Once you're aware of it, it's no problem.

And that long pull is only to the wall where it breaks. The long pull weighs next to nothing because the trigger is already partially cocked when it is charged. When you ďride the reset,Ē the pull is short.

Fantastic trigger, but I think it mentioned that several posts ago.

Also, HK does not condone LEM conversions on the DA/SA pistols in the P2000 and P30 families. It will invalidate the warranty. Only the HK45 and USP models are allowed to be converted without messing up the warranty. Note however that a COMPETENT gunsmith who knows HK can safely and reliably convert the P2000/P30 DA/SA trigger to LEM. Check YouTube for DIY if you want to convert DA/SA to LEM (at your own risk), or check the HKPro forum.
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  #67  
Old 11-02-2018, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BucDan View Post
Already have 2 1911's in .45. Could do a 1911 in 9mm, but I want a bit of variety . Have been a bigger fan of steel guns, aluminum is ok, but I'm warming up to polymer.

Looking for a 9mm, and I've come down to these 3/4 guns.

The SP01 seems best, with the P01 being the in-between, but for some reason, the G19 seems like the smarter choice because of the track record and aftermarket, but the P2000 looks like a perfect development from the USP9.

The P2000 is at the very top of the budget for this gun. A Sig P226/229 is a bit too much.

What do you guys think? I haven't read much into the P2000, but it doesn't seem as popular.
You will probably be more confused and undecided than ever after reading everybody’s opinions in this thread. They all contradict each other and you will never decide by reading them. You have to handle and shoot the guns to see what works best for you, that’s the only way.

The only other option is to buy each one and sell it if you don’t like it. Everyone has different tastes.

Last edited by jdg30; 11-02-2018 at 6:12 PM..
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  #68  
Old 11-02-2018, 6:20 PM
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^ I know, but I like getting lots of sources. Looking into then again this weekend. I've had my share of glocks for about 100 rounds, I like it. I hate the xd9's trigger of them all. The P2K V3 is OK. Can't find LEM models locally.

I'm hoping to get my hands on the Sig SP2022. It's high barrel might be a bit much for me.

So I'm honestly looking at G19, P2K, SP2022, all sub $700 OTD.

Now if I can get a VP9 or newer gen glock 19/45 or P10 with just a bit more, sure! But they're well into the $1k range and sold by people that somehow got them into the state, likely LEO, unless the laws changed.

Sucks being limited.
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Old 11-02-2018, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
I have a "few" HK's and my .40 SW HK P2000sk with the LIGHT LEM trigger is very definitely an exceptional handgun. The LEM trigger is a major asset. Taking it from the standard 8# pull to a 4.5-5# is the simple substitution of two tiny springs. I'm not sure that the P2K DA/SA model can be converted to LEM though. Check with HKPro.com for all info HK.

When checking out the HK LEM trigger (empty mag and chamber!), you MUST rack the slide FIRST. THEN check the trigger pull. Once the hammer is released, continue holding the trigger fully engaged as you rack the slide again. Now slowly release the trigger until you hear/feel the reset "click" - It's now ready to fire again.

The HK LEM has the advantages of a striker-fired pistol with an EXTERNAL hammer. That means when you holster, with your thumb on the hammer, if the trigger moves at all, the hammer will also move. Kinda nice not putting holes in your leg, foot, floor, etc. like some strikers do...

On my LEM's, the only safety lever I have is called the trigger. No other safety levers. Keep your finger off the trigger and it won't fire. Kind of simple that way. The LEM does have a longer trigger pull than most but that's part of the safety mechanism. Once you're aware of it, it's no problem. One other advantage is for quick mag changes. Use the middle finger of your strong hand to push the paddle lever down (natural arch for that finger). Mag drops while your weak hand slides the new mag into the well. All done while maintaining full control of the pistol.


^^^ He's right you know.
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Old 11-02-2018, 6:47 PM
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Old 11-02-2018, 7:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucDan View Post
^ I know, but I like getting lots of sources. Looking into then again this weekend. I've had my share of glocks for about 100 rounds, I like it. I hate the xd9's trigger of them all. The P2K V3 is OK. Can't find LEM models locally.

I'm hoping to get my hands on the Sig SP2022. It's high barrel might be a bit much for me.

So I'm honestly looking at G19, P2K, SP2022, all sub $700 OTD.

Now if I can get a VP9 or newer gen glock 19/45 or P10 with just a bit more, sure! But they're well into the $1k range and sold by people that somehow got them into the state, likely LEO, unless the laws changed.

Sucks being limited.
I agree about XD’s, never cared for them. I have a G19, USP compact 9 with the LEM trigger, and had an early version of the 2022. They are all good guns. G19 is a favorite for available mag capacity, reliability, ease of use, and ease of taking the entire gun apart to customize any way you want in a matter of minutes.

I have shot the p2000 and it is really nice and high quality. I prefer the USP compact a little more. The gun points very naturally, has no finger grooves, and I really like the HK mag release. I installed my own LEM trigger and really love that trigger. It is almost like shooting a single action HK for every shot, but safe to carry cocked without a safety because of the long, light initial trigger pull. Excellent trigger and choice for a gun.

The 2022 was a good gun but I don’t really care for Sig Da/Sa triggers so that’s my personal opinion. They are good guns but hard to cross-train with and be proficient with if you switch back and forth between trigger styles very often.

That’s my experience and opinion, hope it helps.

Also, not sure if you have ever checked out Kahr’s, but they have super smooth triggers right out of the box, have a very natural point of aim, and are very good guns. I own two of the steel models, a K40 and MK9. Their triggers are long, but very smooth with a crisp glass rod break. Their only downside may be mag capacity.

Last edited by jdg30; 11-02-2018 at 7:36 PM..
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  #72  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:26 PM
kmas kmas is offline
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Glock 19
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  #73  
Old 11-03-2018, 12:59 PM
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D.A.V.I.D. D.A.V.I.D. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billkohatsu View Post
People actually buy the P2000?
Isn't that the red-headed stepchild in HK's lineup?
That was the second handgun I ever bought. Shot it and immediately regretted my decision.
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Old 11-03-2018, 1:15 PM
WakeUpCA WakeUpCA is offline
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from your list - i like the SP-01. after shooting some of the newer off roster offerings in the last year or so, the P2000 (and USP) feel dated. the CZ is a tad heavy IMO but as a range /fun gun, its more than fine

the Glock 19 is my fave - same trigger pull from 1st to last round, well balanced, reputation for reliability & dependability, spare or replacement parts available almost everywhere, acceptable accuracy and a price that won't break the bank.

Last edited by WakeUpCA; 11-03-2018 at 1:19 PM..
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  #75  
Old 11-16-2018, 7:12 PM
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Carcassonne Carcassonne is offline
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The G19 and SP-01 are two different types of guns. The G19 is a good lightweight reliable carry gun. The SP-01 is not really a carry gun unless you can carry it in an exposed holster. The G19 would probably be a better home defense gun.

If you get the SP-01, you will most likely need to send it out to get some trigger work. Not because it is that bad, but because it could be made better.



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