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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-25-2011, 11:24 PM
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Default long range rifle build

Here is my problem. I have a remington 700 ADL and a Tikka T3 light stainless. both in 308. I want to build a tacticool long range shooter and my google fu has given me google-ritis and google eyes looking at the stock and accessory options. Tikka is a better shooter and I might want to leave it stock to serve as my deer gun. But if it shoots better would I want it to be the long range gun???? The Remington has Iron sights the Tikka doesn't.

The barrel will probably not be changed out. At least not for now. I have not decided on the stock or scope yet because I don't know which rifle I want to convert . So what do ya think. WWCGD
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2011, 6:26 AM
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It's just a matter of money.....and how much you want to spend. How far do you want to shoot? Do you reload?

If you do not reload then and you do not want to swap the barrel/caliber....then I would recomend sticking the Remmy in a new stock/chassis and putting some decent glass on it.

You will probably get a ton of input about how much "better" the Remmy is for making a tactical rifle....but the Tikka is a far better platform to build a precision rifle on. I have owned many of the top end custom and factory rifles and the Tikka is right up there. Super strong receiver due to it's enclosed top design. The bolt has the Sako extractor from the factory. Almost no truing of the action needed in most cases. The threads for the barrel is almost twice as long as tje Remmy....again...STRONG receivers. Smoothest bolt throw. Etc.,etc.

We are building custom rifles based on the Tikka action so if you would like more info drop me a PM. Also do a search on my post and you can see some of the Tikka rifles we are turning out. And check this thread out of my 1000 yard Tikka custom: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=486526 and: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=489052

What ever you decide, be warned.....long range shooting is addicting.

Take care,Stan
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Old 10-26-2011, 7:00 AM
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what stan said!
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Old 10-26-2011, 9:26 AM
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Yes I reload. .45 , 5.56, 308 and 30-06.

Our range only goes out to 600 yards right now. There are plans to extend that but they are goning to have to wait for funding from the NRA. So for now 600 is Max I will be shooting at.

I was hopin to keep my expenses around 1500 to 2000 or so for now and I don't want to make it a project that will take too long to complete. If I was to re barrel it I would probably buy a receiver and just start from there instead of tearing down one of the deer rifles. I had thought about one of the bolt mil surps i have till I came to my senses. Not that I don't have enough of them To sacrifice one.

I saw the thread on your rifle and it is actually what made me take this build to the planning stage. I have been kicking this around in my head for years. My son is trying to get into the Army. Hes been a defensive tackle and nose guard since he was 8 years old and so hes a little larger that the army wants. Already lost 20 pounds and has about 20 more before they will take him. We both enjoy shooting and I was hoping I could do something with this while he is still home. He was banging a steel fox 8 out of 10 times in the wind yesterday with iron sights on my Ar-15 yesterday at 300 yards and this was the first time he had shot this rifle at anything other than targets around 25 to 50 yards. May not sound like much to some folks but to me it was amazing.

Well Maybe I will get one of those Mann Acuracy devices in 308 and buld that heavy pig into somthing fun. LOL

Thanks for the input guys.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:40 AM
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I've always been very fond of this Guerrilla Sniper Rifle.
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Old 10-26-2011, 3:05 PM
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If it was me, I would leave the Tikka as is, and do the Remington. You can get a 700P stock for just over $300, put a good barrel on it, chambered in .260 and call it good. You would have an extremely capable rifle for about grand, or slightly over, not including glass. And the less you spend on the rifle, the more you can put to good glass.

The Tikka may be a better platform, but the lack of off-the-shelf aftermarket parts drives the cost up (Brownells lists a total of one part for a Tikka). It also begs the question, how much better is really needed?

If you are wanting to build a 1000 yard bench rest rig, then maybe it makes a difference, but with what I described, a good shooter cold realistically hit any target he could see.
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Old 10-26-2011, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
If it was me, I would leave the Tikka as is, and do the Remington. You can get a 700P stock for just over $300, put a good barrel on it, chambered in .260 and call it good. You would have an extremely capable rifle for about grand, or slightly over, not including glass. And the less you spend on the rifle, the more you can put to good glass.

The Tikka may be a better platform, but the lack of off-the-shelf aftermarket parts drives the cost up (Brownells lists a total of one part for a Tikka). It also begs the question, how much better is really needed?

If you are wanting to build a 1000 yard bench rest rig, then maybe it makes a difference, but with what I described, a good shooter cold realistically hit any target he could see.
Umm, one part? I found 169 items for Tikkas on brownells(some are for the 595/695, some for the T3) including everything from rings, rails, butt pads, stocks, recoil lugs, magazines, misc. small replacement parts. Midway has aftermarket bottom metal, aftermarket trigger, muzzle brakes, manners makes a stock(mcmillan said on another forum they have one in the works), at least 4 different companies make full aftermarket chassis(KRG, XLR, Roedale, and one other that I can't remember), a few other smaller companies are making stocks as well, 2 companies(alutek and HSS) make aftermarket bolt shrouds, HSS makes an aftermarket bolt, BigBamBoo here on the forum does custom Tikka builds with Chipley Arms, MTguns is a well known "go to" for work on Tikkas.. and the list is growing.
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Old 10-26-2011, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1138 View Post
Umm, one part? I found 169 items for Tikkas on brownells(some are for the 595/695, some for the T3)
If you go to Brownells, then "Shop by firearm" select Tikka and T3, this is what you get:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1_part.jpg (32.4 KB, 285 views)
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Old 10-26-2011, 4:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
If you go to Brownells, then "Shop by firearm" select Tikka and T3, this is what you get:

Well just search for Tikka and you find a lot more than just 1 set of rings for the T3(and brownells isn't the only company selling Tikka parts either).
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Old 10-27-2011, 1:22 AM
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With the Tikka rifle being a t3 lite, the taper and weight of the barrel seems a little light. That was my first concern since I wont change the barrel out for a long time, if i ever do. And I had already noticed that some of the accessories were limited to fewer choices on the Tikka. I think I had made my decision to go with the Remington. And who knows. I still have a few deer rifle options and I may have to rebarrel the Tikka for my extreme reach gun. SO now to chose the stock and the glass. I was thinking of a Ziess or a leica scope, Thanks for the help everyone!!!!
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Old 10-27-2011, 6:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
If it was me, I would leave the Tikka as is, and do the Remington. You can get a 700P stock for just over $300, put a good barrel on it, chambered in .260 and call it good. You would have an extremely capable rifle for about grand, or slightly over, not including glass. And the less you spend on the rifle, the more you can put to good glass.

The Tikka may be a better platform, but the lack of off-the-shelf aftermarket parts drives the cost up (Brownells lists a total of one part for a Tikka). It also begs the question, how much better is really needed?

If you are wanting to build a 1000 yard bench rest rig, then maybe it makes a difference, but with what I described, a good shooter cold realistically hit any target he could see.

Your Brownells search skills are weak. Just type in Tikka T3 in the keyword search box..l.do not use the firearms specific search.
I get 5 pages of Tikka parts from Brownells search.

To the OP....go with what works for YOU. If the Remmy will satisfy your needs then roll with it.
After many disappointing results and LOTS of money trying to make more then one Remmy be more then it is....I learned my lesson and went in directions that worked out better for ME.

Be sure to post up pics and range report when you get it done.

Take care,Stan
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Old 10-27-2011, 8:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBamBoo View Post
Your Brownells search skills are weak. Just type in Tikka T3 in the keyword search box..l.do not use the firearms specific search.
I get 5 pages of Tikka parts from Brownells search.
Looks like Brownells needs to update their search tags. Following your advice yields 35 results, 32 of which are "Mfr:BERETTA USA", meaning they are replacement parts for a factory rifle. The other 3 items are the rings posted above, a scope base and a limbsaver recoil pad.

Searching Midway turns up about the same number, but they are primarily rings/bases and magazines, with one B&C stock option listed as "coming soon" (and a visit to B&Cs web site shows it is only for light weight barrels).

Doing the same searches for Remington 700 returns 312 and 1,261 results.

I am not saying that the Tikka would not be a better platform, I really don't know, but I will take your word for it. All I am saying is there is a lot more stuff available for a Remington, and it is less expensive.

With the stated budget, the OP could build a pretty solid rifle with his 700.
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Old 10-27-2011, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
Looks like Brownells needs to update their search tags. Following your advice yields 35 results, 32 of which are "Mfr:BERETTA USA", meaning they are replacement parts for a factory rifle. The other 3 items are the rings posted above, a scope base and a limbsaver recoil pad.

Searching Midway turns up about the same number, but they are primarily rings/bases and magazines, with one B&C stock option listed as "coming soon" (and a visit to B&Cs web site shows it is only for light weight barrels).

Doing the same searches for Remington 700 returns 312 and 1,261 results.

I am not saying that the Tikka would not be a better platform, I really don't know, but I will take your word for it. All I am saying is there is a lot more stuff available for a Remington, and it is less expensive.

With the stated budget, the OP could build a pretty solid rifle with his 700.
Just how much aftermarket stuff do you think you seriously need for a product? Take a look and see what those 1200 Remington products actually are for a moment. Also remember that Remington has 4(or is it 5?) action lengths that require different parts, Tikka has 1 or 2? Remington has 3 different sets of bottom metal(ADL, BDL, CDL, I think maybe one more as well) in different action lengths, Tikka has 1. Remington has at least 3 different butt pad dimensions, Tikka has 1. A lot of those 1200 Remington parts are just due to how many variations Remington has made over the years, it doesn't mean if you go pick a 700 off the shelf that all 1200 parts are for it, aftermarket, or even upgrades.

For a Tikka T3 I can get rings/bases from Leupold, DNZ, Talley, or I can buy an EGW rail and use any picatinny rings/bases I want.

If I want a lighter trigger without doing anything to the T3 other than swapping it out, there are two options from Jard.

Recoil pad from limbsaver if you don't like the stock pad.

Bolt shrouds from HSS and Alutek to replace the stock plastic part.

Bolt knobs that just drop in from HSS if you want a bigger knob(I know there is at least 1 other company making them as well).

Chassis:
http://www.kineticresearchgroup.com/
http://www.xlrindustries.com/
http://www.roedale.de/epages/roedalestocks.htm These guys are working on a 2nd model for the T3 now

Stocks:
Manners has 1 specific model but can do any if you ask, mcmillan has 3 specific models and a folder on the way, Bell & Carlson has one as well. There are also at least 3 other stocks that Roedale is a distributor for in Europe.

CDI precision makes an AICS mag compatible bottom metal for the basic T3 stocks.

Seriously, what else do you really need for aftermarket parts? I know that I haven't listed everything. Then for barrels, that depends on who you get to thread a blank(roedale actually sells some now that have a barrel nut like the savage rifles, so that's yet another option) and you can use just about any brake you want if you get the muzzle threaded for it.

That's all from pretty much the past 18 months or so, compared to 40 years of variants for the Remington 700. To me that seems like a pretty healthy aftermarket parts selection.
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Old 10-27-2011, 9:14 AM
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I own and shoot many rifles.Including 3 different Tikka Stainless T3s in 300WinMag,308,7mm-08.The Remington Stainless are 300 RUM Sendero,22-250 VS,223 SPS in a B&C aluminum bedded stock.Also a stock matte 308 police model.To hopefully summarize what all these folks have said and offer my opinion.The custom guy looks like he builds a beautiful rifle.Tikkas are well made from the start,just no aftermarket stuff available.(They do not need anything if you leave them alone.The last couple of Remingtons I have got new,well they needed help.Has anyone had experiance with the new lawyer X trigger.It is fully adjustable to what?4-1/2lbs.Good thing there is a mass of stuff to buy for them.Anyway I am a little pissed with the Remingtons(new ones).If you want to customize,do the Remington.If you can leave a good gun alone do the Tikka.I love every Tikka,but I think I am going to look into the custom builder in this forum.DO AS I SAY-NOT AS I DO.By the way,using hand loads,The T3 300Winchester,shoots right with the Sendero 300RUM-at least to 800 yards.30 years ago long range meant 6-800 yds.308 was fine.These days long range is what?Starting at 1000.If a custom is coming into my life,it is going to be 300 Winchester or 300 Rem Ultra mag.I know folks prefer 338 Lapua etc.,but I am sensitive to ammo cost.
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Old 10-27-2011, 9:47 AM
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Tikka aftermarket grows a little more every day it seems. Both Model 700s and Tikka T3/595/695 are nice actions; however, factory performance as always been better with the Tikka's in my case. If one does not plan on changing the barrel I would recommend a Tikka due to the fact that they use SAKO hammer forged barrels. Additionally, both are superb platforms for a custom project.

Money is the only determining factor to a custom project.

P.S. If you think you need to tweak the factory Tikka trigger, you may very well have more money than sense. Unless you want a trigger pull under 2 lbs, then I would recommend the Barnard trigger.
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Old 10-27-2011, 1:08 PM
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All valid points to consider and I appreciate your time you have put in to help me out.
Does the fact that the Tikka is a lite model limit the build any? If it does then I will have to re-evaluate the funding for the rifle and add the cost of a new barrel in with it. And If a new barrel will be needed I can rethink the caliber I will use. I was going with 308 because thats what I have. Heck I might as well find a shot out mauser and build off of that. LOL. Then instead of keeping the rifle count at what I have I can add another one to the safe. We have a very competent Gunsmith in town but his prices reflect the quality of his work and rightfully so. But as I was trying to keep the cost down with me being able to perform the work. Adding a gunsmith in will basically push the completion date back. Would the wait be worth it? Sure it would. I'm just looking for a rifle out to 600 yds now. When the 1000 yard lanes are built I will probably be back in this predicament again. This build is just intended be fun and burn out my brain trying to come up with the perfect load.
This is what I had thought was going to happen. Buy a stock and shoot with the glass I have. Get the stock tweaked to fit me figure out what bi-pod I want. get the chassis all laid out and comfy and then buy my new glass. Goof around with my loads for a while figure out if the trigger is what I want and go have fun.
The .308 will have its limitations but I like it. I once had a model 70 in 7mm Rem mag. great shooter but the durn thing hurt to shoot. It got to the point that I didn't even want to check the Zero before opening day. I don't want to be back in that place. I had two discs replace in my neck two months ago and That rifle would have sent me looking for the vicoden every time I shot it. I have never shot the the other calibers mentioned by coyotehunter so I cant determine if the recoil will be easy to tolerate or send me back to the gunsmith looking to put the old barrel back on. 338 did cross my mind, alot, but I have no experience with that round so I always kept coming back to one that I am familiar with.
Just wanted to add that the Remington was bought in 2000 and the tikka in 2003. I think.

Last edited by rstbkt69; 10-27-2011 at 1:23 PM.. Reason: more content
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Old 10-27-2011, 2:29 PM
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You could just buy one of these:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/43532
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Old 10-27-2011, 2:37 PM
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LOL I have thought of getting a savage a few times but I'm working on my Mil Surp collection now. I have a m1917 with a questionable barrel. Have not shot it yet because I put it in Jail right before my surgery. Maybe I'll use it. Talk about lack of part support. But now I have taken us off topic. The whole Tikka/Remington thing is suppose to save me some money and i don't want to stray from my mil surp purchases. just need an 1903 a Krag and a M1 carbine.
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Old 10-27-2011, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
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i don't want to stray from my mil surp purchases. just need an 1903 a Krag and a M1 carbine.
Two birds, one stone.

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Old 10-27-2011, 4:10 PM
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An A4 would be nice, but Ive been looking for an original. Its not on my must have list but it has been on the wish list. Thanks for the link though
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Old 10-27-2011, 4:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstbkt69 View Post
Does the fact that the Tikka is a lite model limit the build any?

No...my rifle you see in the link started its life as a T3 Lite in .243. The actions are all the same...from .223 to .338 mag. All Tikka's are long actions. The only thing that determines the calibers is the bolt face,bolt stop, and magazine.

The barrels use standard threads...NOT metric like many believe. The scope base screws are now standard and not metric.

The trigger can be adjusted to about 1 3/4 pound and with a little work can go as light as 12 oz. That is what mine is set at.

Here is a pic of the 1000 yard hunting rifles we build on the Tikka actions. All of these have been re-barreled with match grade barrels and are in WSM calibers.

Also...these reason I asked if you reload is that you can go with a much more efficient caliber for long range shooting. Even a fast twist .243 will be much better then a .308 past 500 yards.

Remmy's are a great platform to build on. But to even come close to the standard design of the Tikka action you are going to spend about $600 just on truing up the action, replacing the extractor with a Sako style, bushing the firing pin (only needed with certain cartridges),sleaving the bolt,etc. Non of these need to be done to the Tikka action. So your that much ahead right from the start.

Again...go with what works for you. Not what "everyone" on the internet does. If you really get serious about working over your Tikka, drop me a PM and I will give you my # and I can give you prices,etc., and discuss what your goal is.


Take care,Stan

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It makes it bigger and longer.
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Old 10-27-2011, 5:49 PM
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thanks Stan. Will do.
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Old 10-28-2011, 7:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBamBoo View Post
Your Brownells search skills are weak. Just type in Tikka T3 in the keyword search box..l.do not use the firearms specific search.
I get 5 pages of Tikka parts from Brownells search.

To the OP....go with what works for YOU. If the Remmy will satisfy your needs then roll with it.
After many disappointing results and LOTS of money trying to make more then one Remmy be more then it is....I learned my lesson and went in directions that worked out better for ME.

Be sure to post up pics and range report when you get it done.

Take care,Stan
thanks for this tips
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Old 10-28-2011, 11:32 PM
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Ive decided to modify the Tikka. Really this time I mean it. Parts are being ordered.
It will be chambered in 6XC (6mm XC) with the Helmick Arms ACU competition/tactical Stock. I'll have to shoot with my hunting scope, A bushnell elite 3200 till I get my incometax return for my serious glass. I'll need that much time to research what I really want anyway. Thanks for all he help. You guys put a lot of time and energy into this.
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:47 AM
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Good choice! A 6XC is on my short list of custom rifles I want to make.

Keep us posted!
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