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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 06-26-2011, 10:42 AM
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Default Glock M6 Predator for CCW

Is this allowed to list for CCW handgun application in CA (Riverside County) ? It is found under glockstore.com
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  #2  
Old 06-26-2011, 12:36 PM
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To know for sure you would have to check with Riverside County, but probably not because it is highly modified. Carry guns should be left stock, except for sight changes. Even adding an OEM Glock extended slide stop lever or 3.5lb connector to a Glock model it did not come with is a modification, let alone a complete aftermarket trigger. Besides $,1300 plus tax and DROS? For a $475 Glock... I will tell you something, with the right training and practice, you can shoot a 2" group with a stock G26 at 20 yards.
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Old 06-27-2011, 6:29 AM
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There's no way an extended SS would be counted against you in court because a) it is a Glock Factory part (and it does come stock on some of their pistols) 2) many, if not all, LEO models come stock with this factory part 3) the SS has no effect whatsoever on how the firearms functions, nor does it have any bearing on the striker/safety system. The same goes for things like a colored or engraved slide back plate; a grip plug; Hogue Hand-All Grip Sleeve; extended mag release; extended slide lock, etc. These are all parts that I fit as soon as I pick up a new Glock. Are they for CCW? Yes. Would I CCW a Glock with a lighter connector fitted to it? Probably not.
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Old 06-27-2011, 7:18 AM
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The policy, and recommendation, in San Bernardino County, is to leave it stock less sight changes. Obviously adding a plug, or putting on grip tape does not consitute a functional modification. Adding an aftermarket inspection plate in this county is a modification, just the same as putting a G34 extended slide stop on a G19, or a G21 mag release in a G19. They didn't come that way.

I know there are several CCW's in Riverside county, perhaps they can comment.
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Old 06-27-2011, 8:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
The policy, and recommendation, in San Bernardino County, is to leave it stock less sight changes. Obviously adding a plug, or putting on grip tape does not consitute a functional modification. Adding an aftermarket inspection plate in this county is a modification, just the same as putting a G34 extended slide stop on a G19, or a G21 mag release in a G19. They didn't come that way.

I know there are several CCW's in Riverside county, perhaps they can comment.
I think the best way to show whether any of these 'Parts Changes' (INCLUDING lighter/aftermarket connectors) would actually make any difference at all would be to cite an actual case in which a CCW (or otherwise legally armed person) was hung in court for this reason. It's almost a parallel the "Don't use this type of weapon/caliber for HD because of overpenetration." Not one statistic that I can find shows where/when a neighbor/roommate was ever actually hit with a projectile originating from a HD shooting.
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Old 06-27-2011, 8:47 AM
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Always check with your issuing county/city on what is allowed.
Why risk a mis-understanding.
Call Riverside.
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Old 06-27-2011, 9:11 AM
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Supersonic,
The question was ‘would this gun be approved for CCW in Riverside county” The answer is “the OP has to ask the Riverside issuing authority” And I added that it would not be approved in San Bernardino county, which is where my permit was issued. I have no idea of what the other counties policies are.

What does this have to do with going to court and citing case law examples and roommates getting hit with fragments??? But just out of curiosity, did Sacramento approve the modifications that you described on your Glock for your CCW permit?
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Old 06-27-2011, 9:28 AM
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Any modifications from "stock" would have to be approved by Sgt Hoover (if your permit is issued by RCSO).

My opinion is that you would not have much luck getting that gun approved for your permit.

Where CCW is concerned, a conservative approach is usually better.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
Supersonic,
...But just out of curiosity, did Sacramento approve the modifications that you described on your Glock for your CCW permit?
Sac does not inspect handguns, nor do they publish a list of acceptable guns.
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Quote:
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Sacramento would declare martial law sooner than they'd meet with Gandhi, Gautama Budda, and Jesus Christ if the three were packing heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Even people not from San Francisco can appreciate a good public spanking like this.
WANTED: G19. New or near new condition in Sacramento area.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawaia View Post
Any modifications from "stock" would have to be approved by Sgt Hoover (if your permit is issued by RCSO).

My opinion is that you would not have much luck getting that gun approved for your permit.

Where CCW is concerned, a conservative approach is usually better.
Inspections or not I agree a conservative approach is safest. Why would you give your potential prosecutor anything more to try to hang you with? Unless there is a clear advantage to adding something like a laser and/or a light why risk it?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7x57 View Post
Sacramento would declare martial law sooner than they'd meet with Gandhi, Gautama Budda, and Jesus Christ if the three were packing heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Even people not from San Francisco can appreciate a good public spanking like this.
WANTED: G19. New or near new condition in Sacramento area.
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  #11  
Old 06-27-2011, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
Supersonic,
The question was ‘would this gun be approved for CCW in Riverside county” The answer is “the OP has to ask the Riverside issuing authority” And I added that it would not be approved in San Bernardino county, which is where my permit was issued. I have no idea of what the other counties policies are.

What does this have to do with going to court and citing case law examples and roommates getting hit with fragments??? But just out of curiosity, did Sacramento approve the modifications that you described on your Glock for your CCW permit?
I never commented on what the rules are regarding CCW in Riverside County. I was merely making a statement regarding what could/couldn't pass scrutiny in a general court of law as far as parts which have zero effect on how the pistol operates. To answer your question regarding 'restrictions' similar to what they have in Riverside, Sacramento has none. There are no restrictions on what parts you "can or can't" install into the handgun once the serial # is on the permit. There is no inspection. They leave discretion up to the individual.
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2011, 6:51 PM
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Old 06-28-2011, 7:56 AM
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tagacali, from http://www.riversidesheriff.org/firearms/ccw.asp

"Absolutely no modifications shall be made to any weapon, without the approval, and subsequent inspection, of the Rangemaster Staff located at the Ben Clark Training Center.
No lasers or scopes of any type are permitted".

Looks like Riverside has lots of restrictions, here are just a few from the application. They can also do a 'shrink wrap', pyschological evaluation.

In addition to licensing requirements as specified by the licensing authority, may require psychological testing on
the initial application. If required, the applicant shall be referred to a licensed psychologist used by the licensing
authority for the psychological testing of its own employees. Any fees charged will be the responsibility of the
applicant and such fees shall not exceed $150.00 for an initial test. Additional psychological testing of an applicant
seeking license renewal shall be required only if there is compelling evidence to indicate that a test is necessary
(PC section 12054(c)).


FAILURE TO BRING ALL REQUIRED EQUIPMENT (Firearms, Ammo, Belt and Holsters) or FAILURE TO PASS WEAPONS INSPECTION, FAILURE TO QUALIFY, OR ANY UNSAFE RANGE VIOLATION, MAY RESULT IN THE NON-ISSUANCE OF THE CCW PERMIT.

All persons subject to this policy are hereby noticed that they will be required to qualify
upon renewal of their CCW Permit. Each permit holder is responsible for scheduling his or her range qualification within one month of their issuance anniversary date as practical.

No firearm of a caliber smaller than .32, nor larger than .45 caliber shall be carried at any time. Semi-auto single action firearms may be approved depending on your proficiency and safe handling of the weapon. Approval will be the sole discretion of the Rangemaster and CCW Unit
Staff.
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Old 06-28-2011, 7:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77bawls View Post
It's funny because that particular pistol was already built for concealment when it left the Glock Factory. Other than (possibly) sights, this aftermarket company did nothing to "enhance" its effectiveness as a CCW weapon. Purely cosmetic "ventilation," if you will. All the holes added to the slide may take a few ounces off the thing, but no person who actually ends up having to draw the weapon is going to notice this insignificance at all. And if that is a ported barrel under all those holes, the gun just became a CCW hazard.
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Old 06-28-2011, 8:05 AM
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/hijack

Good looking - over priced - gun and I like some of the specs.. but what the hell caliber is it? GlockStore.com lists nearly everything but that I assume it is a 9mm?

hijack/
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Old 06-28-2011, 9:35 AM
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At least most of these policies are unlawful; some are just plain dumb of them.

-Brandon

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
tagacali, from http://www.riversidesheriff.org/firearms/ccw.asp

"Absolutely no modifications shall be made to any weapon, without the approval, and subsequent inspection, of the Rangemaster Staff located at the Ben Clark Training Center.
No lasers or scopes of any type are permitted".

Looks like Riverside has lots of restrictions, here are just a few from the application. They can also do a 'shrink wrap', pyschological evaluation.

In addition to licensing requirements as specified by the licensing authority, may require psychological testing on
the initial application. If required, the applicant shall be referred to a licensed psychologist used by the licensing
authority for the psychological testing of its own employees. Any fees charged will be the responsibility of the
applicant and such fees shall not exceed $150.00 for an initial test. Additional psychological testing of an applicant
seeking license renewal shall be required only if there is compelling evidence to indicate that a test is necessary
(PC section 12054(c)).


FAILURE TO BRING ALL REQUIRED EQUIPMENT (Firearms, Ammo, Belt and Holsters) or FAILURE TO PASS WEAPONS INSPECTION, FAILURE TO QUALIFY, OR ANY UNSAFE RANGE VIOLATION, MAY RESULT IN THE NON-ISSUANCE OF THE CCW PERMIT.

All persons subject to this policy are hereby noticed that they will be required to qualify
upon renewal of their CCW Permit. Each permit holder is responsible for scheduling his or her range qualification within one month of their issuance anniversary date as practical.

No firearm of a caliber smaller than .32, nor larger than .45 caliber shall be carried at any time. Semi-auto single action firearms may be approved depending on your proficiency and safe handling of the weapon. Approval will be the sole discretion of the Rangemaster and CCW Unit
Staff.
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Old 06-28-2011, 9:50 AM
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It seems much more to me when I read the guidelines of Riverside, that I see a relative typical firearm policy for Officers and off-duty carry.
It may be that Riverside feels the standards for Officers and Civies to carry a firearm off-duty/CCW should be close to the same.
The reality of it, is that most agencies have much less restrictions on a CCW holder, then their own Officers. I understand the difference between the two.

Its restrictive to be sure of, but I can understand why Riverside would choose to establish a simliar policy for Officers and CCWs.
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Old 06-28-2011, 9:56 AM
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At least most of these policies are unlawful; some are just plain dumb of them.-Brandon

Here's who to call....

Captain Danny Feltenberger
7477 Mission Boulevard
Riverside, CA 92509

951-955-2600
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Old 06-28-2011, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
At least most of these policies are unlawful; some are just plain dumb of them.-Brandon

Here's who to call....

Captain Danny Feltenberger
7477 Mission Boulevard
Riverside, CA 92509

951-955-2600
Thanks for the intel.

-Brandon
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Old 06-29-2011, 6:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
At least most of these policies are unlawful; some are just plain dumb of them.

-Brandon
Very true. Since when does that stop a state govenrnment agency from coming up with absolutely retarded underground "policies?" "FEITENBERGER's RULES".....Even SOUNDS like a freaking joke!
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Old 07-13-2011, 3:26 PM
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I hold a current Riverside County CCW. The application simply states a gun cannot be modified. Period. As to what a modification entails it does not go into. As I did not want to push the "interpretation" of that, I simply chose a 1911 pistol which came from the factory as I wanted it to. Personally I would not carry any gun called a "Predator" just for liability reasons. One never knows what a gun ignorant jury could be talked into by a slick attorney.
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Old 09-16-2011, 4:04 PM
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[QUOTE=tagacali;6662129]Is this allowed to list for CCW handgun application in CA (Riverside County) ? It is found under glockstore.com[/QU

CCW guns in Riverside County must be between .32 and .45 caliber.
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Old 09-16-2011, 4:13 PM
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The CCW process in Riverside County is VERY fair. Sheriff Sniff is a big fan of the 2nd Amendment, a cowboy shooter and believes that law abiding citizens should be able to carry. His definition of good cause is totally reasonable. The Deputies in the CCW unit are great to work with. Don't be put off by the language of the CCW application. ...I wasn't, and I just got my permit....very happy.
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Old 09-16-2011, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RivCoCCW View Post
The CCW process in Riverside County is VERY fair. Sheriff Sniff is a big fan of the 2nd Amendment, a cowboy shooter and believes that law abiding citizens should be able to carry. His definition of good cause is totally reasonable. The Deputies in the CCW unit are great to work with. Don't be put off by the language of the CCW application. ...I wasn't, and I just got my permit....very happy.
Congrats on your permit!
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Old 09-18-2011, 9:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RivCoCCW View Post
The CCW process in Riverside County is VERY fair. Sheriff Sniff is a big fan of the 2nd Amendment, a cowboy shooter and believes that law abiding citizens should be able to carry. His definition of good cause is totally reasonable. The Deputies in the CCW unit are great to work with. Don't be put off by the language of the CCW application. ...I wasn't, and I just got my permit....very happy.
I found this to be true as well. The CCW unit was more than helpfull and even friendly.
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Old 09-18-2011, 9:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
tagacali, from http://www.riversidesheriff.org/firearms/ccw.asp

"Absolutely no modifications shall be made to any weapon, without the approval, and subsequent inspection, of the Rangemaster Staff located at the Ben Clark Training Center.
No lasers or scopes of any type are permitted".

Looks like Riverside has lots of restrictions, here are just a few from the application. They can also do a 'shrink wrap', pyschological evaluation.

In addition to licensing requirements as specified by the licensing authority, may require psychological testing on
the initial application. If required, the applicant shall be referred to a licensed psychologist used by the licensing
authority for the psychological testing of its own employees. Any fees charged will be the responsibility of the
applicant and such fees shall not exceed $150.00 for an initial test. Additional psychological testing of an applicant
seeking license renewal shall be required only if there is compelling evidence to indicate that a test is necessary
(PC section 12054(c)).


FAILURE TO BRING ALL REQUIRED EQUIPMENT (Firearms, Ammo, Belt and Holsters) or FAILURE TO PASS WEAPONS INSPECTION, FAILURE TO QUALIFY, OR ANY UNSAFE RANGE VIOLATION, MAY RESULT IN THE NON-ISSUANCE OF THE CCW PERMIT.

All persons subject to this policy are hereby noticed that they will be required to qualify
upon renewal of their CCW Permit. Each permit holder is responsible for scheduling his or her range qualification within one month of their issuance anniversary date as practical.

No firearm of a caliber smaller than .32, nor larger than .45 caliber shall be carried at any time. Semi-auto single action firearms may be approved depending on your proficiency and safe handling of the weapon. Approval will be the sole discretion of the Rangemaster and CCW Unit
Staff.
So as long as you meet their arbitrary made up "standards" you might be eligible.

They seem to be begging for a lawsuit....
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:39 AM
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Psych testing was never even brought up during my process. As to qualifying, I did all mine at Firearms Training Associates and never even had to bring in my guns or equipment. It was not an issue. I carry a 1911 and it's on my permit. I do however wish they would be clearer in what a modification is. I have been told they just dont want people with half pound triggers and such running around out there. My problem with it is, if it's not in writing and another deputy is transferred in, he may "interpret" differently what a modification is or is not. So I keep my guns literally box stock. Just for safeties sake. Clarification in writing would be nice.
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