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  #1  
Old 08-07-2017, 6:08 PM
sirdutch sirdutch is offline
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Default Fixed magazine AR-15

If a legally purchased AR-15 with a bullet button is converted to a fixed magazine rifle, don't all the other restrictions go away, at least for the present?

I'm not talking about the iffy Armalock option. The MA Lock is more difficult to reverse. It would take some doing but can be reversed. It is so up in the air at this point that it is difficult to decide what to do. I've gone featureless at this point but I would prefer the Mean Arms solution by feeding a fixed mag through the ejection port and keeping the "evil features" but I'm just not sure. Any thoughts on where this is going?
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Old 08-07-2017, 6:22 PM
bob.dakeelstripe bob.dakeelstripe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdutch View Post
If a legally purchased AR-15 with a bullet button is converted to a fixed magazine rifle, don't all the other restrictions go away, at least for the present?

I'm not talking about the iffy Armalock option. The MA Lock is more difficult to reverse. It would take some doing but can be reversed. It is so up in the air at this point that it is difficult to decide what to do. I've gone featureless at this point but I would prefer the Mean Arms solution by feeding a fixed mag through the ejection port and keeping the "evil features" but I'm just not sure. Any thoughts on where this is going?
Must read definition of "fixed mag" and then read between the Lines because it doesn't say how the mag is to be fixed or it did not before.

But yes a Fixed mag is not a AW

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Old 08-07-2017, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdutch View Post
If a legally purchased AR-15 with a bullet button is converted to a fixed magazine rifle, don't all the other restrictions go away, at least for the present?
A semi-auto centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine can legally have features that are prohibited on a semi-auto centerfire rifle that accepts detachable magazines.

In addition, a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine must still maintain the length requirements.
^Minimum barrel length = 16"
^Minimum overall length = 30"

Overall length is measured with the firearm in the shortest possible firing configuration (stock folded/collapsed) and with non-permanently attached muzzle device removed.
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Old 08-11-2017, 9:39 PM
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noozeyeguy noozeyeguy is offline
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From the text of SB880:

Quote:
(b) For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.[Emphasis added]
A literal reading of that would seem to mean that disabling the magazine catch, in and of itself, does not constitute "fixing" the magazine; there must also be some means of installation that cannot be reversed without "disassembly of the firearm action." Whether that be a screw or rivet capturing the mag in the receiver, or some other alteration that would require you to open the action on an AR-pattern receiver, it appears to me that devices such as the Mean Arms MA Lock might not meet legal muster.

I'd appreciate someone with a better grasp of this to weigh in, as "fixed magazine" is the route I intend to go with my ARs.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noozeyeguy View Post
From the text of SB880:



A literal reading of that would seem to mean that disabling the magazine catch, in and of itself, does not constitute "fixing" the magazine; there must also be some means of installation that cannot be reversed without "disassembly of the firearm action." Whether that be a screw or rivet capturing the mag in the receiver, or some other alteration that would require you to open the action on an AR-pattern receiver, it appears to me that devices such as the Mean Arms MA Lock might not meet legal muster.

I'd appreciate someone with a better grasp of this to weigh in, as "fixed magazine" is the route I intend to go with my ARs.
Please do not cite the text of a bill.

Bills interact with each other, and in this case also interact with a proposition.

Find the current version of the law here: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml and work from that.
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Old 08-12-2017, 8:43 AM
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CA PEN 30515:
Quote:
(b) For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=30515
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Old 08-12-2017, 9:17 AM
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noozeyeguy noozeyeguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Please do not cite the text of a bill.

Bills interact with each other, and in this case also interact with a proposition.

Find the current version of the law here: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml and work from that.
PC 30515(b):

Quote:
For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.
That was the language changed by SB880/AB1135 as cited above. FWIW, Prop 63 was silent on AWs.

I see your point, however, and will endeavour to cite PC rather than legislation in the future.

I haven't reviews the rules put in place by the State regarding the AW registration, I wonder if their is any clarification there.
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Old 08-12-2017, 5:11 PM
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Regarding fixed mag, an easy but almost certainly legal option is the Franklin DFM.
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Old 08-13-2017, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noozeyeguy View Post
I haven't reviews the rules put in place by the State regarding the AW registration, I wonder if their is any clarification there.
Starting 08-01-2017, in regards to "fixed magazine"...

11 CCR 5471
Registration of Assault Weapons Pursuant to Penal Code Section 30900(b)(1); Explanation of Terms Related to Assault Weapon Designation.
For purposes of Penal Code section 30900 and Articles 2 and 3 of this Chapter the following definitions shall apply:
(f) “Bullet-button” means a product requiring a tool to remove an ammunition feeding device or magazine by depressing a recessed button or lever shielded by a magazine lock. A bullet-button equipped fully functional semiautomatic firearm does not meet the fixed magazine definition under Penal Code section 30515(b).
(m) “Detachable magazine” means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm without disassembly of the firearm action or use of a tool. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. An ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.
An AR-15 style firearm that has a bullet-button style magazine release with a magnet left on the bullet-button constitutes a detachable magazine. An AR-15 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, magazine catch spring and magazine release button) constitutes a detachable magazine. An AK-47 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, spring and rivet/pin) constitutes a detachable magazine.
(n) “Disassembly of the firearm action” means the fire control assembly is detached from the action in such a way that the action has been interrupted and will not function. For example, disassembling the action on a two part receiver, like that on an AR-15 style firearm, would require the rear take down pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted upwards and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcrum, before the magazine may be removed.
(p) “Fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.
(w) “Permanently attached to” means the magazine is welded, epoxied, or riveted into the magazine well. A firearm with a magazine housed in a sealed magazine well and then welded, epoxied, or riveted into the sealed magazine well meets the definition of “permanently attached to”.
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  #10  
Old 08-13-2017, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
An AR-15 style firearm that has a bullet-button style magazine release with a magnet left on the bullet-button constitutes a detachable magazine. An AR-15 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, magazine catch spring and magazine release button) constitutes a detachable magazine. An AK-47 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, spring and rivet/pin) constitutes a detachable magazine.
*Lacking* a magazine catch? Am I stupid and just not comprehending their meaning, or am I *not* the stupid one here?

Looks like the Franklin mag system is GTG, since "disassembly" is required.
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Old 08-13-2017, 4:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noozeyeguy View Post
*Lacking* a magazine catch? Am I stupid and just not comprehending their meaning, or am I *not* the stupid one here?

Looks like the Franklin mag system is GTG, since "disassembly" is required.
Some folks wonder whether the 'detachable magazine' issue might be avoided by removing the mag catch. Regs clarify that that activity does not fix the problem.
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Once again, we're in CA Bill Season.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

Let us simply oppose them all - write, call, attend meetings with legislators and tell them they're wrong.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 08-13-2017, 6:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdutch View Post
If a legally purchased AR-15 with a bullet button is converted to a fixed magazine rifle, don't all the other restrictions go away, at least for the present?

I'm not talking about the iffy Armalock option. The MA Lock is more difficult to reverse. It would take some doing but can be reversed. It is so up in the air at this point that it is difficult to decide what to do. I've gone featureless at this point but I would prefer the Mean Arms solution by feeding a fixed mag through the ejection port and keeping the "evil features" but I'm just not sure. Any thoughts on where this is going?
Link to thread about cheap, reversible, DIY Fixed Magazine modification

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1366673
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