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  #321  
Old 09-25-2017, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Ya, your scenario points out some of the ridiculousness of this law - it's a crime for anyone who isn't on the RAW registration to have access to the RAW while you aren't present, including spouses. And you cannot add future spouses to the registration.

I have the same problem, I'm not married currently, nor do I plan to become married before next July. My plan, if/when I get married, is to keep my RAWs locked up separately from my other guns. I'll set her up with some non-RAW home defense options (shotguns/pistols/whatever), so that she wouldn't ever need to access the RAWs while I'm away.

So yes, registration means that you would need to keep your RAWs locked up, with only you having the key/combination, when you are not home. (FWIW, I don't know how anyone could ever prove that your spouse "knows the combination").


I can see it now - a news headline in the future, about a woman raped/murdered in a home invasion because her husband was not legally allowed to give her the key to the only gun in the house. That possibility illustrates how our overlords really don't actually care about anyone when they make these laws. Still, I plan to just not be put into that situation, by having other non-RAW home defense options available for everyone.
I think that what is being missed is that property acquired before marriage is separate property and remains separate property after the marriage. Thus, future spouses do not acquire a property interest in any of your firearms owned before marriage. And, I do not see how ownership of a firearm could be commingled giving the future spouse an interest. Thus, a gift of a firearm or an interest in a firearm after marriage would be no different than a gift to a stranger. Of course, this only applies in CA because in most other states these are merely modern sporting rifles where there would be no restrictions on giving your spouse such a firearm. Fortunately, in my case, I acquired all of my ARs after marriage, so I will be able to co-register them in CA.

All I can say is support the NRA/CRPA suit Villanueva v. Becerra and hopefully this nonsense will be quashed. Otherwise, I hope that you have at least 10K rounds to help take out the f***king libtards when the try and take our weapons.

Last edited by BAJ475; 09-25-2017 at 12:08 AM.. Reason: correct typo
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  #322  
Old 09-25-2017, 7:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post

3) There's no requirement that you actually build a firearm and apply a serial once they've issued you one.

Having a few extra assigned numbers is a solid idea!

However, the form does say "Firearm Information" and "Up to three firearms can be listed on this application." You are signing under penalty of perjury so you may want to have the completed 80% (i.e. finished receivers) to go with however many numbers you request. I would hate to see a bunch of documents being filed by folks saying that their 80% receivers are firearms. But that may just be the conspiracy theorist in me being crazy...

Last edited by timthetank; 09-25-2017 at 7:40 AM..
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  #323  
Old 09-25-2017, 7:43 AM
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Originally Posted by timthetank View Post
Having a few extra assigned numbers is a solid idea!

However, the form does say "Firearm Information" and "Up to three firearms can be listed on this application." You are signing under penalty of perjury so you may want to have the completed 80% (i.e. finished receivers) to go with however many numbers you request. I would hate to see a bunch of documents being filed by folks saying that their 80% receivers are firearms. But that may just be the conspiracy theorist in me being crazy...
As long as you intend to build the guns as described (some day), then it's not perjury. They don't give you a timeframe within which you have to complete the build, nor do they tell you that you aren't allowed to change your mind about the color or barrel or caliber later. People change their mind about those things all the time, that's why aftermarket barrels and cerakote are popular
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  #324  
Old 09-25-2017, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
As long as you intend to build the guns as described (some day)
In that case what do you put for the "date of manufacture" question?

Playing devil's advocate here because I would much rather you be right!
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  #325  
Old 09-25-2017, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by timthetank View Post
In that case what do you put for the "date of manufacture" question?

Playing devil's advocate here because I would much rather you be right!
Well since (starting next year) you have to apply for the serial before you can even machine the receiver, and we have absolutely no idea how long it will take to get one, it is virtually impossible to accurately answer that question, unless you make the date extremely far in the future, then mark your calendar so you remember to do it on exactly that day (and pray no emergencies come up that need your attention. "Sorry Bobby, we'll have to take you to the hospital tomorrow, daddy's gotta mill this receiver today or be in violation of state law"). For firearms you've already made, since there was no requirement to keep any records, most of us have no idea what date we machined our receivers. I'm not even sure what year I did most of mine in, they all look the same.

That's the theoretical explanation. Now for the factual one:

There's no law that says you have to make the firearm on the date that they made you predict. And it's not perjury to make a best guess now and change your mind later.
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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 09-25-2017 at 8:37 AM..
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  #326  
Old 09-25-2017, 8:39 AM
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Regarding the "up to three serials" parts, it says you can attach additional applications to the first one, to get more serials
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  #327  
Old 09-26-2017, 12:04 PM
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Regarding where it was made, I take it I should put the address of my shop rather than where I live (they're different).

Regarding materials, how specific should I be? 6061 aluminum (lower), 7075 aluminum (upper), S7 tool steel (or whatever the trigger is), fiberglass reinforced polymer (handguard, buttstock), tungsten (buffer weights)... should I list every last item?
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  #328  
Old 09-26-2017, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Regarding where it was made, I take it I should put the address of my shop rather than where I live (they're different).

Regarding materials, how specific should I be? 6061 aluminum (lower), 7075 aluminum (upper), S7 tool steel (or whatever the trigger is), fiberglass reinforced polymer (handguard, buttstock), tungsten (buffer weights)... should I list every last item?
Just tell them its proprietary, and doesn't break the law. Unobtanium Oxide, a magnetic ceramic polymer.
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  #329  
Old 09-26-2017, 12:27 PM
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The DOJ sure has set this registration up so there are many traps to to bust the law abiding gun owner. Sadly, if a person registers and makes one mistake, you could potentially be guilty of a Feliny, good by guns forever.
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  #330  
Old 09-26-2017, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Regarding where it was made, I take it I should put the address of my shop rather than where I live (they're different).
They say to use the location where it was manufactured. So ya, use your shop location if that's where you made it.
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  #331  
Old 09-26-2017, 1:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Regarding materials, how specific should I be? 6061 aluminum (lower), 7075 aluminum (upper), S7 tool steel (or whatever the trigger is), fiberglass reinforced polymer (handguard, buttstock), tungsten (buffer weights)... should I list every last item?
I would say "Metal", or "Metal, polymer", or "metal, wood, polymer", etc.

Keep it simple
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  #332  
Old 09-27-2017, 12:10 PM
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Default positive interaction with Cal DOJ firearms

I had a positive interaction with Cal DOJ while registering:

Issue: (Assault Weapon Reg.) Other, my issue is not listed. Submitted: 09/21/2017 03:21 PM



George ____said (initial issue report): CRIS Number: _____________ I erroneously checked the box that the firearm is less than 30 in in length. I verified, and it is actually 30.5 inch. Do I need to re-register and pay the fee, or can you correct my error?


DOJ Response (09/27/2017 10:24 AM): Hi George, I made your application incomplete so you can change the characteristics. You do not need to re-register and pay a fee.
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  #333  
Old 09-27-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ngnrnlo View Post
I had a positive interaction with Cal DOJ while registering:

Issue: (Assault Weapon Reg.) Other, my issue is not listed. Submitted: 09/21/2017 03:21 PM



George ____said (initial issue report): CRIS Number: _____________ I erroneously checked the box that the firearm is less than 30 in in length. I verified, and it is actually 30.5 inch. Do I need to re-register and pay the fee, or can you correct my error?


DOJ Response (09/27/2017 10:24 AM): Hi George, I made your application incomplete so you can change the characteristics. You do not need to re-register and pay a fee.
Good to hear there was no knock on the door. So you contacted them saying you mistakenly checked the sub 30 box? If I may ask, why did you check the box? Just a mistake?
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  #334  
Old 09-27-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Good to hear there was no knock on the door. So you contacted them saying you mistakenly checked the sub 30 box? If I may ask, why did you check the box? Just a mistake?
From his message it sounds like he thought it was under 30" when he registered it, so he submitted it as under 30". Regardless of how or why it got checked, there are no less than two bright-red warnings in the guide about absolutely never checking that box under any circumstances, so I don't know how that could've happened.

For the record, NEVER check the "under 30 inches" checkbox. Doing so would be admitting that you possessed (best case scenario) an unregistered AW before 2017 which is a CA felony, or (worst case scenario) an SBR which is a federal felony.

If your rifle is under 30", keep your mouth shut and make it 30" before you register. Under no circumstances should that box ever be checked. That's why I drew a big red line through it and wrote in big red letters "Do Not Select!" in the guide.
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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 09-27-2017 at 12:41 PM..
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  #335  
Old 09-27-2017, 1:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Good to hear there was no knock on the door. So you contacted them saying you mistakenly checked the sub 30 box? If I may ask, why did you check the box? Just a mistake?
I did not know the exact length and wanted to err on the short side (more assault-looking). I did not know that 30 inch was the minimum allowed
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  #336  
Old 09-27-2017, 1:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
From his message it sounds like he thought it was under 30" when he registered it, so he submitted it as under 30". Regardless of how or why it got checked, there are no less than two bright-red warnings in the guide about absolutely never checking that box under any circumstances, so I don't know how that could've happened.

For the record, NEVER check the "under 30 inches" checkbox. Doing so would be admitting that you possessed (best case scenario) an unregistered AW before 2017 which is a CA felony, or (worst case scenario) an SBR which is a federal felony.

If your rifle is under 30", keep your mouth shut and make it 30" before you register. Under no circumstances should that box ever be checked. That's why I drew a big red line through it and wrote in big red letters "Do Not Select!" in the guide.
I read the <30 inch warning on this guide too late!

But thank you for the guide. Without it, I would not have known that <30 inch could not be registered, and my registration would have been rejected.
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  #337  
Old 09-27-2017, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ngnrnlo View Post
I read the <30 inch warning on this guide too late!

But thank you for the guide. Without it, I would not have known that <30 inch could not be registered, and my registration would have been rejected.
Or worse. Glad to hear it worked out well, and good to know that you can request your app to be opened for editing again after submitting it, I didn't know that was a possibility
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  #338  
Old 09-27-2017, 1:27 PM
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apologies if the following info is dupe:

You cannot change anything in your registration application once you hit submit.

To correct any error, do not use "contact us;" I did not get a reply for 2 weeks.

Use "report an issue," and they will change your application status to "incomplete" so you can go in and make changes to it.
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  #339  
Old 09-27-2017, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ngnrnlo View Post
apologies if the following info is dupe:

You cannot change anything in your registration application once you hit submit.

To correct any error, do not use "contact us;" I did not get a reply for 2 weeks.

Use "report an issue," and they will change your application status to "incomplete" so you can go in and make changes to it.
thank you, I'll add that info to the guide
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  #340  
Old 09-27-2017, 2:04 PM
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Article 1 section 10 clause 1 : No state shall...pass any...ex post facto Law.

If your rifle was legally +30" in 2016, and is now -30" because of the new regulations, you would be able to register it with or without a BB.
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  #341  
Old 09-27-2017, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Article 1 section 10 clause 1 : No state shall...pass any...ex post facto Law.

If your rifle was legally +30" in 2016, and is now -30" because of the new regulations, you would be able to register it with or without a BB.
I agree - Still, don't check the box.
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  #342  
Old 09-27-2017, 5:30 PM
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OK just so I'm clear.

If I have home builds both rifle and pistol without a serial I need to get serial #s form DOJ and then register?

**Sorry I'm so lost even with the guides. I might need a guide for guides
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  #343  
Old 09-27-2017, 5:40 PM
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OK just so I'm clear.

If I have home builds both rifle and pistol without a serial I need to get serial #s form DOJ and then register?

**Sorry I'm so lost even with the guides. I might need a guide for guides
If you want to register as AW you need to either:

1) Volreg and then use that serial number to register as AW (this has not been proven to work yet, still waiting to see if it works)

2) Submit the DOJ 1008 form, get a serial and have it all approved, then register as AW using that serial number.

Problem with #2 is you need to wait for them to issue, and the serial will be something they choose. You also need to mark it according to their standards. Advantage of #1 (if it works) is that you can mark it how you like, use a number you choose, and then get it registered. DOJ will probably want the type of engraving to be professional, but if they already have you in the system as volreg they can't mandate that it be changed. That is if they accept a volreg serial!

We should know soon if #1 works or not.
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  #344  
Old 09-30-2017, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Article 1 section 10 clause 1 : No state shall...pass any...ex post facto Law.

If your rifle was legally +30" in 2016, and is now -30" because of the new regulations, you would be able to register it with or without a BB.
Ex post facto is when they punish you for something that wasn't illegal at the time that you did it.

Not allowing registration (and therefore requiring disposal) might be taking, but isn't ex post facto.
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  #345  
Old 09-30-2017, 3:42 PM
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Deleted, posted this in the wrong thread. Dangit, how do you delete a post in tapatalk
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2019 CA Legislation Quick-Reference & Statuses

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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 09-30-2017 at 3:47 PM..
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  #346  
Old 09-30-2017, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Regardless of how or why it got checked, there are no less than two bright-red warnings in the guide about absolutely never checking that box under any circumstances, so I don't know how that could've happened.
/s
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The architects of the assault weapon bans ... are simply trying to fight the Culture War. And we can't win, not in California anyway because you guys, the ones with the most to lose, refuse to do what you need to do to win the Culture Wars, which is to make Calguns and the gun rights community a truly big tent and stop driving people away simply because they are different from you.
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  #347  
Old 09-30-2017, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Ex post facto is when they punish you for something that wasn't illegal at the time that you did it.

Not allowing registration (and therefore requiring disposal) might be taking, but isn't ex post facto.
Everyone's saying "Don't check the less than 30" box". What law would be broken? PC 30515 wasn't effective until 1/1/17
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Old 09-30-2017, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Everyone's saying "Don't check the less than 30" box". What law would be broken? PC 30515 wasn't effective until 1/1/17
The same definition of under 30" was contained in Roberti-Roos since 1989.
§12276.1 was amended to §30515 so that language was not new in 2017.
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The architects of the assault weapon bans ... are simply trying to fight the Culture War. And we can't win, not in California anyway because you guys, the ones with the most to lose, refuse to do what you need to do to win the Culture Wars, which is to make Calguns and the gun rights community a truly big tent and stop driving people away simply because they are different from you.
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  #349  
Old 09-30-2017, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by naeco81 View Post
The same definition of under 30" was contained in Roberti-Roos since 1989.
§12276.1 was amended to §30515 so that language was not new in 2017.
This is true, however, the regulations, specifically 5471(x) the language for the method of measurement changed:

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(x) “Overall length of less than 30 inches” with respect to a centerfire rifle means the rifle has been measured in the shortest possible configuration that the weapon will function/fire and the measurement is less than 30 inches. Folding and telescoping stocks shall be collapsed prior to measurement. The approved method for measuring the length of the rifle is to measure the firearm from the end of the barrel, or permanently attached muzzle device, if so equipped, to that part of the stock that is furthest from the end of the barrel, or permanently attached muzzle device. (Prior to taking a measurement the owner must also check any muzzle devices for how they are attached to the barrel.)
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mshill View Post
This is true, however, the regulations, specifically 5471(x) the language for the method of measurement changed:
Right, so if it was over 30" before the new definition, regardless of the new definition, don't check the box. If it was under 30" even before, then definitely don't check the box. Any way you look at it, don't check the box.
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:11 PM
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No one can be realistically expected to understand the nuances of the change in a few words in a sentence in the regulations about what the definition of OAL means relative to past definitions. It's a joke, and if there ever was a problem then that case would blow up the entire AWCA based on the sad fact that there is nothing to charge someone with in the PC. It would be alleged manufacturing of an AW from an AW, which would be laughable at best. The further the antis go in terms of making a mockery of law and regulation the better it is for us, so I actually expect sooner or later we will see this case.
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Old 09-30-2017, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Right, so if it was over 30" before the new definition, regardless of the new definition, don't check the box. If it was under 30" even before, then definitely don't check the box. Any way you look at it, don't check the box.
Not talking about those configurations, specifically, not less than 30" before, but less than 30" now.
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Old 09-30-2017, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
No one can be realistically expected to understand the nuances of the change in a few words in a sentence in the regulations about what the definition of OAL means relative to past definitions. It's a joke, and if there ever was a problem then that case would blow up the entire AWCA based on the sad fact that there is nothing to charge someone with in the PC. It would be alleged manufacturing of an AW from an AW, which would be laughable at best. The further the antis go in terms of making a mockery of law and regulation the better it is for us, so I actually expect sooner or later we will see this case.
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:15 PM
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Not clear what co-registrants are supposed to indicate in "Acquired from" and "Date acquired" fields?
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:20 PM
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Not clear what co-registrants are supposed to indicate in "Acquired from" and "Date acquired" fields?
Put the FFL's name and the date the DROS was started. If you inherited then put the persons name and estimate the date. They have shown that, at least electronically, that if you get the date wrong post 2014 that they will say it's wrong and then you call in and they will give you the right date. Stupid as can be, but this is normal.
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  #356  
Old 10-04-2017, 12:32 PM
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Got the following email from cal doj:
"The California Department of Justice has received your electronic AB 1135/SB 880 Assault Weapon Registration; however, it cannot be processed for the following reason(s): •Thank you for submitting your application. Based on the photos you provided, the model of your firearm is M4 CARBINE. Please correct your application to reflect M4 CARBINE as your model number."

I had put 6940 for model number. Cal DOJ changed status to "incomplete" and I made the correction.
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  #357  
Old 10-04-2017, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ngnrnlo View Post
Got the following email from cal doj:
"The California Department of Justice has received your electronic AB 1135/SB 880 Assault Weapon Registration; however, it cannot be processed for the following reason(s): •Thank you for submitting your application. Based on the photos you provided, the model of your firearm is M4 CARBINE. Please correct your application to reflect M4 CARBINE as your model number."

I had put 6940 for model number. Cal DOJ changed status to "incomplete" and I made the correction.
I wonder if that was related to whatever the gun shop employee entered in the box for model when doing the DROS. I've had to correct gun shop employees who filled in "AR-15" for the model when completing the 4473. I wonder if the DROS software works the same.
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Old 10-04-2017, 4:17 PM
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I checked the DROS form. It states LE6940LE for model (which is what I had entered to register). Their rejection message is based on the close up photo of the left side, which they require you to upload with the registration application.
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Old 10-04-2017, 4:21 PM
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... LE6940CA
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  #360  
Old 10-04-2017, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ngnrnlo View Post
I checked the DROS form. It states LE6940LE for model (which is what I had entered to register). Their rejection message is based on the close up photo of the left side, which they require you to upload with the registration application.
I'd call and ask to speak to someone since the DROS and their interpretation of the photo is different. Better than risking some cop's interpretation of it in the future.
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