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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 08-19-2017, 2:58 PM
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One more time: I do not have a problem with your ideological position: stick to that if you like. But your constant, intellectually dishonest, incessant stream of ideology masquerading as logic is becoming increasingly tiresome.
Tiresome??? it's driving me insane.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #122  
Old 08-19-2017, 6:06 PM
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Tiresome??? it's driving me insane.
I quit reading anything he writes ages ago. Problem solved
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  #123  
Old 08-19-2017, 8:12 PM
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I quit reading anything he writes ages ago. Problem solved
You are a genius, I am a moron.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #124  
Old 08-19-2017, 8:17 PM
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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  #125  
Old 08-19-2017, 8:20 PM
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
I'm going to put that in my signature.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #126  
Old 08-19-2017, 8:26 PM
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I try to register and I can't upload a photo or submit an issue. Figures.
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  #127  
Old 08-19-2017, 8:27 PM
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I'm going to put that in my signature.
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  #128  
Old 08-19-2017, 8:35 PM
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So today at the gun show, a vendor was saying how if you register a AW, and then plan to move out of California , you can't leave until the weapon is deregistered or else it's a felony? Even if you moved to a free state because you haven't deregistered the weapon out of California ??

Also something about taking apart a weapon to avoid registration and then attempting to put it together later?

Any knowledge of this??
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  #129  
Old 08-19-2017, 8:40 PM
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So today at the gun show, a vendor was saying how if you register a AW, and then plan to move out of California , you can't leave until the weapon is deregistered or else it's a felony? Even if you moved to a free state because you haven't deregistered the weapon out of California ??

Also something about taking apart a weapon to avoid registration and then attempting to put it together later?

Any knowledge of this??
It's FUD. You can travel anywhere with your RAW as long as the destination requirements are followed and it be in a locked container inside CA. Outside CA in most States it's just a rifle and you need not do anything special, but it pays to do some research into individual State laws. You can fly in and out of CA with your RAW.

Taking apart means you can never put it back together without committing a felony after July 1st 2018. When Aliens land and Sacto is vaporized or overrun with zombies then it's ok to reassemble.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #130  
Old 08-20-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
It's FUD. You can travel anywhere with your RAW as long as the destination requirements are followed and it be in a locked container inside CA. Outside CA in most States it's just a rifle and you need not do anything special, but it pays to do some research into individual State laws. You can fly in and out of CA with your RAW.

Taking apart means you can never put it back together without committing a felony after July 1st 2018. When Aliens land and Sacto is vaporized or overrun with zombies then it's ok to reassemble.
Are you claiming that I can't legally clean by AW? Because I sure don't think that's a reasonable way of interpreting it.
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  #131  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:57 AM
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Featureless for two rifles. A maglock for my AR pistol, and the rest of them broken down so they don't constitute a working firearm. Then I just wait until I leave which isn't too far away. I'm not paying for them to regulate me even more


Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the pistol has to be registered


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  #132  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:59 AM
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Are you claiming that I can't legally clean by AW? Because I sure don't think that's a reasonable way of interpreting it.
I'm not sure what you mean. If you disassemble an AW it's not an AW anymore. If you reassemble it at any time after July 1st 2018 without it being registered it's felony time.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #133  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:26 AM
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I'm not sure what you mean. If you disassemble an AW it's not an AW anymore. If you reassemble it at any time after July 1st 2018 without it being registered it's felony time.
I'm not sure what you mean by this either.

The lower is the registered AW. You can exchange any other parts on it (except, according to the DoJ, the mag release)

Certainly there is nothing wrong with reassembling it after teardown for cleaning?
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  #134  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:31 AM
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I'm not sure what you mean by this either.

The lower is the registered AW. You can exchange any other parts on it (except, according to the DoJ, the mag release)

Certainly there is nothing wrong with reassembling it after teardown for cleaning?
I am saying AW, not RAW. If we choose to not register, we can keep our AW disassembled because it's not considered a functioning rifle and no longer AW.

We can assemble and disassemble RAW at will, it's status as RAW is not dependent on it's state of assembly.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #135  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by this either.

The lower is the registered AW. You can exchange any other parts on it (except, according to the DoJ, the mag release)

Certainly there is nothing wrong with reassembling it after teardown for cleaning?
I think he is inferring that if you have an AW and you choose not to register it and instead disassemble it in its AW config you can't reassemble it again after the deadline without modifying the configuration (ie removing features or using a new locking system)
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  #136  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:07 PM
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If you've registered your "RAW" you can disassemble it, clean it, spin parts on the floor, drink a six pack, then reassemble it and go shooting. If its a bullet button rifle, just be sure to put the bullet button back in it as its registered.
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  #137  
Old 08-22-2017, 1:04 PM
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Go read any of Meno377's posts. His opinions form the basis of the supreme truth of the universe. He even decides what is the "truth" of why other people make the choices that they make.
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  #138  
Old 08-22-2017, 1:17 PM
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It's the truth.
The "truth" is that many of us own several rifles, and are intelligent enough to understand that keeping all of our eggs in one basket is the wrong choice to make if we want to be able to still go out and train with our rifles in the future here in the state of CA.

Meno, you understand this I am sure, but your goal here is to dissuade CA gun owners from registering their rifles so that they end up getting screwed over when all semi-autos are banned which is very likely to occur in the coming years.

Also, you speak as if you are not aware that bullet buttons can be removed in about 1 min and replaced with a standard magazine release if and when the time comes to do so.
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  #139  
Old 08-22-2017, 3:13 PM
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Also, you speak as if you are not aware that bullet buttons can be removed in about 1 min and replaced with a standard magazine release if and when the time comes to do so.
Or a fixed magazine with a standard magazine release that is enabled with a couple of turns of a screw...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1366673
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  #140  
Old 08-22-2017, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I am saying AW, not RAW.
Sorry for derailing things. I misunderstood.
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  #141  
Old 08-22-2017, 3:29 PM
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your goal here is to dissuade CA gun owners from registering any of their rifles so that they end up getting screwed over when all semi-autos are banned which is very likely to occur in the coming years.
Bold added by me. I feel this is his position and promulgating it is extremely irresponsible.
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  #142  
Old 08-22-2017, 3:32 PM
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Bold added by me. I feel this is his position and promulgating it is extremely irresponsible.
Not true. Please show me where I tell OTHERS what to do. Other than mentioning options? Show me where I tell others NOT to do something. Please quote me on anything that shows this?
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  #143  
Old 08-22-2017, 3:34 PM
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This is my opinion about your goal. I could be wrong.

I will be clear: you have never stated that is your goal. It is an assumption I am making based on your posting history.
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  #144  
Old 08-22-2017, 3:35 PM
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I'm not trying to squash discussion, but I think everyone knows where everyone stands on the issue and things probably won't change/move for at least 3 - 6 months. I don't think calling out meno at this point is helpful. Let sleeping dogs lie.
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  #145  
Old 08-22-2017, 3:38 PM
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This is my opinion about your goal. I could be wrong.

I will be clear: you have never stated that is your goal. It is an assumption I am making based on your posting history.
If you really care to know the truth, you would know. I have been upfront about my opinion all along. But it's your right to assume. SMH.
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  #146  
Old 08-22-2017, 4:33 PM
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If you really care to know the truth, you would know.
I fundamentally do not trust what people say their motives are on the Internet. Based on their posts, that trust is either gained or lost.
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Old 08-22-2017, 4:34 PM
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I fundamentally do not trust what people say their motives are on the Internet. Based on their posts, that trust is either gained or lost.
I do agree with you on that. I feel the same way about some here also.
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  #148  
Old 08-22-2017, 9:17 PM
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I'm not trying to squash discussion, but I think everyone knows where everyone stands on the issue and things probably won't change/move for at least 3 - 6 months. I don't think calling out meno at this point is helpful. Let sleeping dogs lie.
I agree with meno. You early registers are a bit like this.


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Old 08-22-2017, 9:34 PM
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While it is early in the process and IMHO registering is not an option even if there is some magical breakthrough.

Even if there is a breakthrough in the courts the good old elected officials will write a new law to slow it down again.
We already know all semi autos will be on the mext few rounds of bills
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  #150  
Old 08-23-2017, 9:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Registration has all choices wrapped into it. That's not the disadvantage to it, there are other issues but choice is not one of them.

I can either have a BB or choose to deregister it and have any other kind of non-AW including featureless, fixed mag, etc.

Choice of features has nothing to do with the AW registration argument, it's completely irrelevant.
.............
Believing that you can truly "deregister" an AW, is like believing you can get angry and call your wife a "slut", and then thinking that all you have to do is apologize and she'll forever act as if it never happened.

Let's be real. Let's be honest with ourselves. Once ANY data hits a government computer, nothing short of an act of God is going to get that data permanently out of that system.
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  #151  
Old 08-23-2017, 9:31 AM
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.............
Believing that you can truly "deregister" an AW, is like believing you can get angry and call your wife a "slut", and then thinking that all you have to do is apologize and she'll forever act as if it never happened.

Let's be real. Let's be honest with ourselves. Once ANY data hits a government computer, nothing short of an act of God is going to get that data permanently out of that system.
Let me fix that for you:

Believing that the government doesn't have information about your gun ownership (post 2014 for sure, post 2011 mostly, and earlier probably) , is like believing you can get angry and call your wife a "slut", and then thinking that all you have to do is apologize and she'll forever act as if it never happened.

You're playing the information card in your argument, yet are not completely candid about what that card means against anti-reg points of view. You just said that any data that hits a government computer is not erasable.

I agree, so how is it even remotely possible to assume anyone has anonymity from the state, especially in the information age? Are you really going to go into this fight armed with the vague, unconformable concept that they do not know you or what you have? After you post it on an online forum? You are concerned with anonymity?

We all entered information, even pre 2011, into the DROS that California insists they did not keep records of. According to the tenets of your own argument, you cannot rely on that information NOT existing anymore.

Do you see the absurdity of your point of view? Some continue to argue it's an issue of "convenience" for the government. If they ever do confiscate, they have essentially thrown out all convenience out the window. Assuming they know is the only logical avenue for reasonable people, period. Assuming anonymity is for wide eyed naive children.
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Last edited by Discogodfather; 08-23-2017 at 9:34 AM..
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  #152  
Old 08-23-2017, 9:48 AM
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.............
Believing that you can truly "deregister" an AW, is like believing you can get angry and call your wife a "slut", and then thinking that all you have to do is apologize and she'll forever act as if it never happened.

Let's be real. Let's be honest with ourselves. Once ANY data hits a government computer, nothing short of an act of God is going to get that data permanently out of that system.
If its a modular system like the AR, I wouldn't even bother de-registering. I walk the lower out of state and sell it to an FFL for 20 bucks or I'd drop the lower off at my local PD. Thats how easy it is to truly deregister.
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  #153  
Old 08-23-2017, 9:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
If its a modular system like the AR, I wouldn't even bother de-registering. I walk the lower out of state and sell it to an FFL for 20 bucks or I'd drop the lower off at my local PD. Thats how easy it is to truly deregister.
Ya, it's not like you can't walk into any gun store today and pick up a different lower with a different serial.

Doesn't work so well for other platforms, but for ARs its a very obvious answer. Solves all the concerns people have about AR confiscation, too. Turn in your RAW lower, rebuild with another lower. Voila, instant de-registration. Even if they're lying about deletion of your RAW records, who cares, it's documented that you don't have it anymore, so they're not going to waste any time or resources chasing after you for something they know you don't have anymore.
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2019 CA Legislation Quick-Reference & Statuses

Don't panic. As of 11/21/2018, only around 40% of BBRAW applicants have received their letter. DOJ is still actively processing them... slowly. In the meantime:



Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-23-2017 at 9:56 AM..
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  #154  
Old 08-23-2017, 9:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
If its a modular system like the AR, I wouldn't even bother de-registering. I walk the lower out of state and sell it to an FFL for 20 bucks or I'd drop the lower off at my local PD. Thats how easy it is to truly deregister.
It may not be that simple.

You may need to submit a Notice of No Longer in Possession Form (BF 4546) for each of the above activities. Read one some time and educate yourself. Try using the newly revised version dated 07/2017, which is attached to the approved draft of the regs with the other forms.

I would to cover my behind and it might be mandatory, but not sure. Would not be surprised if the police will have them if you surrender the lower to them, but some of us could never do such a thing based on principle.

Last edited by shoutitoutshutitup; 08-23-2017 at 10:12 AM..
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  #155  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by shoutitoutshutitup View Post
It may not be that simple.

You would still have to submit a Notice of No Longer in Possession Form for each of the above activities. Read one some time and educate yourself. Try using the newly revised version dated 07/2017, which is attached to the draft of the regs with the other forms.

I would to cover my behind and it's probably mandatory.
You're half right.

If you want to de-register it because you sold it or turned it in, then yes, you need to fill out a "No longer in possession" form.

However, there is absolutely no requirement that you de-register anything, ever, even if you sold it or turned it in. Honestly, I wouldn't bother. Just keep the proof of dispossession in my safe, and if someday down the road it causes any sort of problem that I am recorded as having a RAW, then I'll just show them proof I don't have it anymore. Because, again, there's no requirement to de-register anything ever. They call it "Voluntary de-registration" for a reason.
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2019 CA Legislation Quick-Reference & Statuses

Don't panic. As of 11/21/2018, only around 40% of BBRAW applicants have received their letter. DOJ is still actively processing them... slowly. In the meantime:



Last edited by cockedandglocked; 08-23-2017 at 10:11 AM..
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  #156  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by shoutitoutshutitup View Post
It may not be that simple.

You would still have to submit a Notice of No Longer in Possession Form for each of the above activities. Read one some time and educate yourself. Try using the newly revised version dated 07/2017, which is attached to the draft of the regs with the other forms.

I would to cover my behind and it might be mandatory, but not sure.
I don't think it's required, and if you sell out of state via an AW permit FFL there also is no requirement to de-register.

Problem is semantically people are assuming you have to de-register, and there is no mandate to do so. Only time there is a mandate to de-register is when we want to convert to featureless (or other config).
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  #157  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:21 AM
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Read the form, it covers about every scenario imaginable.

I don't care if the form is mandatory or not.

First of all, if you sell a RAW to someone you have committed a felony, but, practically, the sale will not go through and will likely display as a RAW at the PPT, even if you have converted to featureless.

You need to CYA and get it de-registered.

Last edited by shoutitoutshutitup; 08-23-2017 at 10:24 AM..
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  #158  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by shoutitoutshutitup View Post
First of all, if you sell a RAW to someone you have committed a felony, but, practically, the sale will not go through and will likely display as a RAW at the PPT, even if you have converted to featureless.
Wrong. You can sell a RAW. You just can't sell it to someone inside of CA unless they have a dangerous weapons permit.

Perfectly legal to sell it to anyone in any other state where such a rifle is legal, which is most of them.
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2019 CA Legislation Quick-Reference & Statuses

Don't panic. As of 11/21/2018, only around 40% of BBRAW applicants have received their letter. DOJ is still actively processing them... slowly. In the meantime:


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  #159  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Wrong. You can sell a RAW. You just can't sell it to someone inside of CA unless they have a dangerous weapons permit.

Perfectly legal to sell it to anyone in any other state where such a rifle is legal, which is most of them.
No one is going to get any kind of deal, lucky to get pennies on the dollar, if sell to DWP.

I was implying the usual PPT. Stop throwing in red herrings, I thought you might be above that.

Last edited by shoutitoutshutitup; 08-23-2017 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoutitoutshutitup View Post
I don't care if the form is mandatory or not.

First of all, if you sell a RAW to someone you have committed a felony, but, practically, the sale will not go through and will likely display as a RAW at the PPT, even if you have converted to featureless.

You need to CYA and get it de-registered.
I think you are confused as to how the system works. If you want to get rid of RAW there are two main avenues:

1) Sell it through a AW permit dealer to someone out of State, destroy it, or turn it in to LEO.

2) De-register it and convert to a non-AW configuration (after that sell it or whatever, it's a standard rifle)


Number 1 requires no de-registration. No mandate whatsoever that I can find to use the no-longer in possession form. You can still do it, and most people would just to get out of the registry.

Number 2 requires the no-longer in possession form plus the DOJ process and application to convert to a non-AW configuration.
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Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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