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  #1  
Old 11-13-2017, 7:29 PM
ansan12001 ansan12001 is offline
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Default ADVICE ON HOME SHOP FOR GUN BUILDING

Here are my questions, if you have links that would be great as well:

1. I want to build for personal ownership: ar's, 1911, ak's. What other plateforms are out there and have alot of aftermarket support?

2. What build kits have the most value? Links here would be great!

3. What tools can I buy that may have the most use?

4. Whats my best source(s) for inexpensive surplus military rifles? I want to sportalize a Mosin Nagant and non collectible Garand (if put together one from parts, its probably not worth much).

Any and all advice would be appreciated, I am in San Diego if it matters.

Last edited by ansan12001; 11-15-2017 at 8:46 PM..
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2017, 7:31 PM
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You will need a drill with plenty of drill bits...
Thats all I got.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2017, 8:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ansan12001 View Post
... now I am committed to legally building most of my future guns.
Since, this starts in about half a year from now...

Penal Code 29180
(a) For purposes of this chapter, “manufacturing” or “assembling” a firearm means to fabricate or construct a firearm, or to fit together the component parts of a firearm to construct a firearm.
(b) Commencing July 1, 2018, prior to manufacturing or assembling a firearm, a person manufacturing or assembling the firearm shall do all of the following:
(1) Apply to the Department of Justice for a unique serial number or other mark of identification pursuant to Section 29182.
(2) (A) Within 10 days of manufacturing or assembling a firearm in accordance with paragraph (1), the unique serial number or other mark of identification provided by the department shall be engraved or permanently affixed to the firearm in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(B) If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction with the unique serial number engraved or otherwise permanently affixed in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(3) After the serial number provided by the department is engraved or otherwise permanently affixed to the firearm, the person shall notify the department of that fact in a manner and within a time period specified by the department, and with sufficient information to identify the owner of the firearm, the unique serial number or mark of identification provided by the department, and the firearm in a manner prescribed by the department.
(c) By January 1, 2019, any person who, as of July 1, 2018, owns a firearm that does not bear a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, shall do all of the following:
(1) Apply to the Department of Justice for a unique serial number or other mark of identification pursuant to Section 29182.
(2) Within 10 days of receiving a unique serial number or other mark of identification from the department, the unique serial number or other mark of identification provided by the department shall be engraved or permanently affixed to the firearm in accordance with regulations prescribed by the department pursuant to Section 29182 and in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(3) After the serial number provided by the department is engraved or otherwise permanently affixed to the firearm, the person shall notify the department of that fact in a manner and within a time period specified by the department, and with sufficient information to identify the owner of the firearm, the unique serial number or mark of identification provided by the department, and the firearm in a manner prescribed by the department.
(d) (1) The sale or transfer of ownership of a firearm manufactured or assembled pursuant to this section is prohibited.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the transfer, surrender, or sale of a firearm to a law enforcement agency.
(3) Any firearms surrendered, transferred, or sold to a local law enforcement agency pursuant to paragraph (2) shall be destroyed as provided in Section 18005.
(4) Sections 26500 and 27545, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, shall not apply to the transfer, sale, or surrender of firearms to a law enforcement agency pursuant to paragraph (2).
(e) A person, corporation, or firm shall not knowingly allow, facilitate, aid, or abet the manufacture or assembling of a firearm pursuant to this section by a person who is within any of the classes identified by Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of this code, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(f) If the firearm is a handgun, a violation of this section is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. For all other firearms, a violation of this section is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. Each firearm found to be in violation of this section constitutes a distinct and separate offense. This section does not preclude prosecution under any other law providing for a greater penalty.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2017, 8:08 PM
shafferds shafferds is offline
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Wire size drill bits, good reamers, good vise, good stones and matrix precision jigs work great on 1911 but since you have a mill you can indicate.
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2017, 8:08 PM
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Mill- speaks for itself, you don't need a drill press with a quality mill. spot and MIG welder (preferably TIG)- spot welder required for AK builds unless you want to do plug welds, MIG/TIG is extremely useful for all around work. Lathe - necessary for turning barrels, pins, cutting threads etc. Bench grinder, kiln, blue/park tank or oven for cerakote...

When it comes to tools the sky is the limit. See the "shovel build" AK to see it can be done...see the top notch custom builds to see how it can also be done.

Aside from the actual machines, my most used hand/special tools are:
Rivet jigs
Countersinks - 30 and 82 degree for most of my builds
End mills
Pin punches
Transfer punches
Brass punches
Drift punches
Blind hole finders
Letter, standard and wire size drills
Reamers
Deburring tools
Endless supply of Dremel attachments
Fine wire bench grinder wheels
Cases of brake cleaner

As for universal "parts", roll pins are quickly and easily made from drill rod. I'd recommend getting an assortment of roll pins as well.

The most valuable part of the entire package is the knowledge and skill to run said machines.

My hats off to you, DIY gunsmithing is very rewarding.

Last edited by 81turbota; 11-13-2017 at 8:16 PM..
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2017, 8:09 PM
shafferds shafferds is offline
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A good lathe with some length or throat size for barrel chambers and actions.
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2017, 9:26 PM
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I think you'd be better off starting with 1 project at a time and buying the tooling you'll need for that project. When you're done with it and want to start another one, see what you'll need to buy for that that you don't already have. Once you've completed a few different projects, you'll have an impressive shop.

That is, unless you're wanting to spend thousands of dollars right off the bat.
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:20 PM
ansan12001 ansan12001 is offline
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Default Following up

thank you for all the great advice, I am a retired diesel and hydraulic systems mechanic so I feel I have a good base of knowledge and tools to help me with all this. The advice about starting on one project is notable, along with information on the new laws. To that end, I have a question:

2) (A) Within 10 days of manufacturing or assembling a firearm in accordance with paragraph (1), the unique serial number or other mark of identification provided by the department shall be engraved or permanently affixed to the firearm in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

What about all the self built firearms built before this? Also I have a hard time understanding the logic to this portion of legislation if 80% lowers cant be traced to time of purchase unless the manufacturers of said part reported to the DOJ (which is probably coming next).
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ansan12001 View Post
Budget: (I am poor)
1. I want to build: ar's, 1911, ak's.
2. What build kits have the most value?
It usually costs more to build them yourself than to just buy them.
Perhaps you are talking about simple assembly of 100% completed receivers though.
In that case, you can sometimes assemble a firearm cheaper than buying a factory rifle.
It will cost more if you have to buy any tools.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 11-13-2017 at 10:34 PM..
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ansan12001 View Post
What about all the self built firearms built before this?
They are required to be marked before July 1 2018.

Quote:
(c)*By January 1, 2019, any person who, as of July 1, 2018, owns a firearm that does not bear a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, shall do all of the following:
(1)*Apply to the Department of Justice for a unique serial number or other mark of identification pursuant to Section 29182.
(2)*Within 10 days of receiving a unique serial number or other mark of identification from the department, the unique serial number or other mark of identification provided by the department shall be engraved or permanently affixed to the firearm in accordance with regulations prescribed by the department pursuant to Section 29182 and in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(3)*After the serial number provided by the department is engraved or otherwise permanently affixed to the firearm, the person shall notify the department of that fact in a manner and within a time period specified by the department, and with sufficient information to identify the owner of the firearm, the unique serial number or mark of identification provided by the department, and the firearm in a manner prescribed by the department.
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AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC

Last edited by ar15barrels; 11-13-2017 at 10:46 PM..
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  #11  
Old 11-13-2017, 11:00 PM
smittty smittty is offline
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1911's can cost a lot less to build yourself and I think its the only handgun worth building.

If a milling machine is outside of your budget then get the 1911 phantom jig. The rest is done with a drill press, files and sandpaper.

I don't know very much about building rifles but if I had a mill I'd love to build a classy single shot rifle.
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2017, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittty View Post
1911's can cost a lot less to build yourself and I think its the only handgun worth building.
Please list the parts and tools required that add up to less than $450 for a completely finished 1911.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...25_6+1_wood_gr
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AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
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  #13  
Old 11-14-2017, 2:40 AM
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Some family member of Armscor sells build RIA build kits for $395. I’m working on one now. They have 9mm, 40, 10mm, 45 ACP. I️ already had the rail cutting jig from matrix for a sig, so tooling investment was minimal. The one I’m building for 395!also isn’t a stripped down GI version.


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  #14  
Old 11-14-2017, 7:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
They are required to be marked before July 1 2018.
Its hard to understand if that particular section instructs for firearms to have a self manufactured serial number or if one has to be assigned to firearm in question by the DOJ. If self manufactured and not actually "registered" as the term is used by the DOJ, then we still retain some privacy......thoughts?
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  #15  
Old 11-14-2017, 11:49 AM
shafferds shafferds is offline
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The other issue with setting up shop is maximizing the space one has to fit the most tools or equipment to do the jobs you need. A small sand blast cabinet is helpful but it can get everywhere if not setup right.
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2017, 11:55 AM
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Harbor freight has everything you'll need.
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2017, 3:30 PM
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Shoot....you are way over thinking it:

https://www.dawn.com/news/1273740




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It makes it bigger and longer.
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2017, 3:36 PM
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A good small vise and an AR armorer tool. Just buy a piece at a time. Before you know it you have a shop full of tools for your neighbors borrow/lose/damage/never return.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2017, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ansan12001 View Post
Its hard to understand if that particular section instructs for firearms to have a self manufactured serial number or if one has to be assigned to firearm in question by the DOJ. If self manufactured and not actually "registered" as the term is used by the DOJ, then we still retain some privacy......thoughts?
If you find that hard to understand, then maybe you shouldn't be getting into this hobby. Not meant to be insulting, there's a reason I moved to Nevada!

Yes all homebuilds will have to have the state approved stampin's.
And yes criminals tend to operate outside the law, seems self-explanatory.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy's View Post
Harbor freight has everything you'll need.
I was gonna give this a lol, but then I remembered he has a Lee progressive, so yeah that's perfect.
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  #20  
Old 11-15-2017, 9:57 AM
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what are the CA rules for building a 80% 1911 ? like from Stealth Arms using their phantom jig ? I realize it has to be stamped by June or July 2018, any other rules/laws I should know about ? I do have a mill so maybe not even using their phantom jig, just their mill jig.

I have a lot of toys, but no 1911.
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  #21  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:21 AM
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You're going to do all this from your condo garage?
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  #22  
Old 11-15-2017, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
what are the CA rules for building a 80% 1911 ? like from Stealth Arms using their phantom jig ? I realize it has to be stamped by June or July 2018, any other rules/laws I should know about ? I do have a mill so maybe not even using their phantom jig, just their mill jig.

I have a lot of toys, but no 1911.
As of 01-01-2015...

It legally needs to be built as a dimensionally complaint bolt-action single-shot pistol or as a dimensionally complaint break-top/open single-shot pistol. [PC 32100(b)]
^Dimensionally complaint = minimum 6" barrel length and minimum 10.5" overall length

If it is made as a semi-auto pistol without a chamber load indicator, magazine disconnect mechanism, microstamping array, and does not pass CA DOJ safety testing; then it's an illegal unsafe handgun. [PC 32000(a)]
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2017, 8:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrOrange View Post
If you find that hard to understand, then maybe you shouldn't be getting into this hobby. Not meant to be insulting, there's a reason I moved to Nevada!

Yes all homebuilds will have to have the state approved stampin's.
And yes criminals tend to operate outside the law, seems self-explanatory.





I was gonna give this a lol, but then I remembered he has a Lee progressive, so yeah that's perfect.
Which part isnt meant to be insulting because im having a hard time figuring that out, go crap on someone's threads....
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  #24  
Old 11-16-2017, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
As of 01-01-2015...

It legally needs to be built as a dimensionally complaint bolt-action single-shot pistol or as a dimensionally complaint break-top/open single-shot pistol. [PC 32100(b)]
^Dimensionally complaint = minimum 6" barrel length and minimum 10.5" overall length

If it is made as a semi-auto pistol without a chamber load indicator, magazine disconnect mechanism, microstamping array, and does not pass CA DOJ safety testing; then it's an illegal unsafe handgun. [PC 32000(a)]
Thank you, so no building a 1911 at home
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  #25  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
Thank you, so no building a 1911 at home
No problem to build a break-open single shot and later convert it to semi-auto.







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  #26  
Old 11-19-2017, 7:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ansan12001 View Post
What other plateforms are out there and have alot of aftermarket support?
Whats my best source(s) for inexpensive surplus military rifles?
CETME/HK/G3, FAL, UZI, and 10-22s are all easy to do, they are commonly built, have abundant and inexpensive parts, and there is lots of info and tutorials. These are usually that next progression of builds guys do after ARs/AKs...

There is all types of SMG kits like the sterling, sten, pps, m31, sa26, etc... Cheap parts but more difficult to build IMHO... But still lots of info and parts.

Then there is the LMGs and HMGs like DPs, RPDs, BRENS, SGs, MGs, PKMs, 1919s etc.. Again a little bit harder and a little more expensive to build but still lots of info and parts out there.

Gunbroker, if you are diligent and patient, is still a good place to find deals if you are looking for old milsurps, also keep an eye on the marketplace here and on other sites stuff pops up all the time.

Most common vendors I use, APEX, E-sarco, RTG, BRPGUNS, HK-parts, IMA, AOA, militarygunsupply, centerfire, ak-builder,
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  #27  
Old 11-19-2017, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
No problem to build a break-open single shot and later convert it to semi-auto.







You're half-right.

There's no problem at all making the single-shot.

The days when it was clearly legal to convert a single shot to semi-auto are gone. It's been at best ambiguous since Broughman v Carver in light of PC 32000. I say ambiguous because Broughman was Fourth Circuit case and I was not aware of any attempt to apply it's rationale in California. At the same time nothing prevented a California prosecutor from trying to do so.

AB 857 pretty much did away with the ambiguity by adopting Broughman's definition of "manufacturing."

AB 857 is still new. I'm also not aware of any prosecutions using the new definition. Prosecutors still have one hoop left to jump through. AB 857 limited the scope of the new "manufacturing" definition to PC sections 29180-21984. The term is still undefined for application to PC 32000. However in the absence of a statutory definition applying to PC 32000, I can't see a California court doing anything other than adopting the definition created by AB 857.

It's probably not an issue in the rural counties. I know many filing DDA's in Los Angeles County that would easily file such a case in L.A. County.
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  #28  
Old 11-19-2017, 2:26 PM
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People trying to help you understand the complexity of the law so you don't lose everthing and end up in the slammer are not being rude but you clearly are way in over your head.

Ambition, chutzpah and sheer will power are amazing things to posses but neither will keep you out of prison.

CA is amongst a short list of terrible places for this hobby.
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