Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Long Distance Shooting
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Long Distance Shooting Discuss tools, techniques, tips and theories of long distance shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-11-2017, 2:22 PM
Citadelgrad87's Avatar
Citadelgrad87 Citadelgrad87 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,695
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default Realistically, how far can a .308 reach?

I know it depends on a lot. Id always read that .308 is really running out of steam about 1000-1100 yards or so.

I am putting together a Remingon 700 ss, 5r, 24Ē barrel, brake, timney trigger, 3.5x21X50 scope with a lot of elevation on a 20moa rail.

With say 175smks and a hand load, how far will this rig be able to put up decent groups?

Thanks.

Disclaimer, like most questions, ignorance is the reason i ask. Ive hit at 800 with a semi .308, but never tried anything beyond that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjsig View Post
You are talking to someone who already won this lame conversation, not a brick a wall. Too bad you don't realize it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
Please stop judging me. Your ad hominem attack does nothing more than show you don't pack the gear for this debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lear60man View Post
My transvestite analogy stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterfern View Post
Didn't realize. I try not to be political.
XXXXXXX
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-11-2017, 3:18 PM
DDscar DDscar is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 238
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

I would say at least 1500 yards, Iím sure a skilled marksman can hit beyond that.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-11-2017, 5:43 PM
kcstott's Avatar
kcstott kcstott is offline
Toolmaker Extraordinaire
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: National City Socal
Posts: 9,566
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

All things being equal. 1300 meters is realistically the limit for accurate reliable repeatable hits.
I shoot the 175 SMK, along with the Nosler 175 RDF and when I can find them cheep enough 175 Bergers I’ve got 1300 plus rounds through a Rem 700 5R at or beyond 1000 yards. I’ve made accurate repetitive hits 1275 meters. That really about the limit.

As for a the 1500 yard posted above. Yeah well maybe if you are talking about one maybe two hits out of ten in low to no wind sure. But real world 1300 meters is it and that’s really pushing it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !

Last edited by kcstott; 11-12-2017 at 2:57 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-11-2017, 7:19 PM
waveslayer's Avatar
waveslayer waveslayer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,102
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Decent groups depends on a few factors but decent, for my 5R a out 1200 yards. It's reached out to a mile.. grouping was terrible! But we had a few hits out of 10 shots.

.308 will last awhile and easy to find ammo or reload. I have been using 175 SMK bullets because I have a bunch of them...

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:51 AM
G-forceJunkie's Avatar
G-forceJunkie G-forceJunkie is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SCV, So. Cal
Posts: 4,207
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Depends on the velocity you can push those 175's. Untill it goes subsonic, it should group fine. Personally, I would call 1000 yards my max.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-12-2017, 8:38 AM
mumzer's Avatar
mumzer mumzer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: What day is it?
Posts: 800
iTrader: 45 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDscar View Post
I would say at least 1500 yards, Iím sure a skilled marksman can hit beyond that.
Nope. Subsonic well before that. Not enough room in the case to push a 175 fast enough to get there.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:49 AM
F4E Phantom F4E Phantom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 232
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

My son is active duty grunt. Last yr he was in a sniper platoon. Although not a true sniper he got to play with the M40A5. He was getting consistent hits past 1250 yards. They always rock with a can.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-12-2017, 4:10 PM
kcstott's Avatar
kcstott kcstott is offline
Toolmaker Extraordinaire
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: National City Socal
Posts: 9,566
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by F4E Phantom View Post
My son is active duty grunt. Last yr he was in a sniper platoon. Although not a true sniper he got to play with the M40A5. He was getting consistent hits past 1250 yards. They always rock with a can.
Range 117A is a KD and UK distance range,the .308 at 1400 yards is for familiarization only. In USMC Speak the 308 is at the wall at 1000 yards for a one shot hit and 1200 for a shot that can be compromised by wind or other environmental factors.
They use the 300 winmag for 1000 and beyond. Have there been shots made further than that with a 308? Sure. Is it what the USMC trains and teaches? Hell no. And the reason or is itís not reliable to expect solid hits beyond 1000 yards
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-12-2017, 4:56 PM
WFO_Racer's Avatar
WFO_Racer WFO_Racer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 110
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Hand loads with 175 depending on ambient and other things should have around 1300 groups.

Too many variables though.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-13-2017, 8:06 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 42,363
iTrader: 93 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
I know it depends on a lot. Id always read that .308 is really running out of steam about 1000-1100 yards or so.

I am putting together a Remingon 700 ss, 5r, 24” barrel, brake, timney trigger, 3.5x21X50 scope with a lot of elevation on a 20moa rail.

With say 175smks and a hand load, how far will this rig be able to put up decent groups?

Thanks.

Disclaimer, like most questions, ignorance is the reason i ask. Ive hit at 800 with a semi .308, but never tried anything beyond that.
Air density will be the biggest factor.
The 24" barrel and the 175 SMK's are not helping.
Within 2 hours of los angeles, in places you can actually target shoot, I would say 1000 to 1100 is about it.
If you can get up to about 15,000ft elevation, you can shoot out to 1400yds or so.
Just bring your own oxygen because hiking around at 15,000ft sucks if you are not used to it.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-13-2017, 8:11 PM
MontClaire's Avatar
MontClaire MontClaire is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: *CLASSIFIED*
Posts: 4,834
iTrader: 88 / 100%
Default

At 954 yards we do it all day with 168gr BTHP's and on a frankenstein AR308 16" rifle! Elevation 4500, dry air, calm day. You can push it further with heavier bullets. 175smk and the right combination of powder with primer should net you excellent results in bolt action with 24". Experimenting is the key here. Push it further once you ace certain distance.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-13-2017, 8:17 PM
Citadelgrad87's Avatar
Citadelgrad87 Citadelgrad87 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,695
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Air density will be the biggest factor.
The 24" barrel and the 175 SMK's are not helping.
Within 2 hours of los angeles, in places you can actually target shoot, I would say 1000 to 1100 is about it.
If you can get up to about 15,000ft elevation, you can shoot out to 1400yds or so.
Just bring your own oxygen because hiking around at 15,000ft sucks if you are not used to it.
What bullet would be better? Is it the weight or the configuration?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjsig View Post
You are talking to someone who already won this lame conversation, not a brick a wall. Too bad you don't realize it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
Please stop judging me. Your ad hominem attack does nothing more than show you don't pack the gear for this debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lear60man View Post
My transvestite analogy stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterfern View Post
Didn't realize. I try not to be political.
XXXXXXX
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:22 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 42,363
iTrader: 93 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
What bullet would be better? Is it the weight or the configuration?
Warner Flatlines.
But your twist rate will not really support them.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:32 PM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,207
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

The 160 or 180 grain Warner Flatline bullets would both be better.
The untipped 175 Sierra MatchKing bullet has a 0.505 BC value while the 180 grain Warner Flatline is over 0.700 yet it shoots at a higher velocity.
__________________
Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
Southwest Regional Director
Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
www.unlimitedrange.org
Not a commercial business.
URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-14-2017, 5:45 AM
bridgeport bridgeport is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SFV
Posts: 738
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

Whenever I am putting together a rig, the thing I ask myself is what is its Main purpose. If the main purpose is shooting at 1000 yards or beyond, I am only handicapping myself by shooting .308 no matter what the load or bullet. If I am only going to shoot some small percentage of total shots in the life of the rifle at LR, then its just a matter of testing a load that works for that rifle at that distance, that fall into the acceptable range. The more important issue is what do I expect will happen once the bullet gets out to 1000 yards. Do I want the best grouping, do I want the bullet to maintain power, am I hunting, or target shooting, or just plinking on a plate? Check scores on match shooting F-TR and Palma to see what .308 is capable of in capable hands for target work.

Here is a thread on the subject with some good information:http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek031.html
__________________
"These truths we hold to be self evident".

Last edited by bridgeport; 11-14-2017 at 5:53 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-14-2017, 6:57 AM
kcstott's Avatar
kcstott kcstott is offline
Toolmaker Extraordinaire
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: National City Socal
Posts: 9,566
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

I’ll disagree with the Warner flatlines as I’ve had very good luck and improved scores with the Nosler RDF 175’s problem is they do not like to jump in my rifle. RDF’s have an advertised BC of .780 but how close that is to reality is another issue. I’ve been told by a number of top shooters the Flatlines are not jump tolerant so I’ve just avoided them.
Berger and Sierra jump just fine at mag length.

I’ll comment on Randals air density. Keep in mind this is my data and my rifle your results may vary. I’ve shot at the same range for two years on a nearly monthly basis, shot in all kinds of weather, and for me worst case was a .6 mil difference at 1000 yards. Air density shifts from 400 to 3500 feet and not enough to really matter on a NRA F class LR target.

Randall hinted at this, but the limitation is the barrel length and bullet weight combo, but with the right powder you can get 2750-70 all day long. Problem for me is the RDF’s don’t like 2770, they like 2710. We’ll find out how much better I can do when it comes time to rebarrel as in going to stick a 30” on it and call it good.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !

Last edited by kcstott; 11-14-2017 at 7:34 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-14-2017, 7:12 AM
Citadelgrad87's Avatar
Citadelgrad87 Citadelgrad87 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,695
iTrader: 24 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bridgeport View Post
Whenever I am putting together a rig, the thing I ask myself is what is its Main purpose. If the main purpose is shooting at 1000 yards or beyond, I am only handicapping myself by shooting .308 no matter what the load or bullet. If I am only going to shoot some small percentage of total shots in the life of the rifle at LR, then its just a matter of testing a load that works for that rifle at that distance, that fall into the acceptable range. The more important issue is what do I expect will happen once the bullet gets out to 1000 yards. Do I want the best grouping, do I want the bullet to maintain power, am I hunting, or target shooting, or just plinking on a plate? Check scores on match shooting F-TR and Palma to see what .308 is capable of in capable hands for target work.

Here is a thread on the subject with some good information:http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek031.html
I appreciate that and agree.

Its a purpose built 600-1000 yard rig. I was clear in my mind about what i wanted, and i think i made good choices, but in doing so, i have gotten some input indicating its good for a bit more.

This thread was an effort to see what others have experienced in a similar rig.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjsig View Post
You are talking to someone who already won this lame conversation, not a brick a wall. Too bad you don't realize it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
Please stop judging me. Your ad hominem attack does nothing more than show you don't pack the gear for this debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lear60man View Post
My transvestite analogy stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterfern View Post
Didn't realize. I try not to be political.
XXXXXXX
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-14-2017, 7:44 AM
kcstott's Avatar
kcstott kcstott is offline
Toolmaker Extraordinaire
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: National City Socal
Posts: 9,566
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

The 308 is a good performer at long distance. If wind is not a major factor. Shooting F Class I’m limited at my range to military calibers at the present time. Once we get caliber waivers I’m getting a 6.5CM or a 6.5x47. In the mean time I’m going to build a .223 to shoot 90g SMK’s or Berger VLDs. The .223 performs very well at 1000 yards with a 30” barrel.

There are plenty of rounds out there with better wind bucking ability than the .308. But if you’re not competing it don’t matter much.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-14-2017, 8:39 AM
NorCalTodd NorCalTodd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: 'Ol Hangtown
Posts: 39
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
Iím limited at my range to military calibers at the present time.
Pendleton? I heard they have that restriction. Otherwise me and a couple of NorCal guys were thinking about coming down and shooting. (Mostly 6.5 CM / 260 variants)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-14-2017, 9:13 AM
kcstott's Avatar
kcstott kcstott is offline
Toolmaker Extraordinaire
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: National City Socal
Posts: 9,566
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalTodd View Post
Pendleton? I heard they have that restriction. Otherwise me and a couple of NorCal guys were thinking about coming down and shooting. (Mostly 6.5 CM / 260 variants)
Yeah. Range control got a hair up their butt. The club is working on waivers right now
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Dick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tujungatoes View Post
That guy is a hack. He worked on one of my ak's and now the damn thing only shoots .50 cal bullets.
The above statement i consider a term of endearment
Need prints for your build? Need reference materials for Gunsmithing projects, Click Here
I fear that even though as tough as life has been for me I have only begun to pay for my sins.
Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered !
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-15-2017, 2:37 PM
Apollo's Avatar
Apollo Apollo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Bay
Posts: 821
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Realistically, it depends on the environmental factors, how well you can read the wind, and how consistent your own handloads are.

With the flatlines you'll be limited in distance because once long skinny bullets like that start slowing down to around the speed of sound they'll become erratic. However so long as they're going fast enough they'll cut the wind very nicely.

Sierras are great and can be found pretty cheap, they're also very easy to tune for handloading.

The 185 Berger Hybrids/ Juggernauts are kind of interesting because they'll stay stable all the way down to 800fps (I tested this at 4,000 ft elevation) but they aren't the fastest or the cheapest. So you can really reach out and smack something at distance without them destabilizing but at the longer distances the drop is stupid and unless you can expertly judge the wind you'll bracket the target.
__________________
Time spent hunting is not deducted from one's lifespan.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-15-2017, 2:42 PM
getpro56's Avatar
getpro56 getpro56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 455
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

I’ve hit 1100 meters consistent with a Remy in 308 24” barrel. Didn’t go past that since I had no target. Heck I’ve hit the 1000 meter targets consistent with an AR chaimbered in 223 wylde using 62gr 5.56 Ammo. Barrel length is 18”.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-19-2017, 12:57 PM
Trakker's Avatar
Trakker Trakker is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Central LA
Posts: 852
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
I know it depends on a lot. Id always read that .308 is really running out of steam about 1000-1100 yards or so.

I am putting together a Remingon 700 ss, 5r, 24Ē barrel, brake, timney trigger, 3.5x21X50 scope with a lot of elevation on a 20moa rail.

With say 175smks and a hand load, how far will this rig be able to put up decent groups?

Thanks.

Disclaimer, like most questions, ignorance is the reason i ask. Ive hit at 800 with a semi .308, but never tried anything beyond that.
anything before it goes subsonic...there is a "boundary" where goes subsonic...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 3:16 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.