Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-15-2019, 10:41 PM
isntzen isntzen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 283
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default Anybody have a favorite muzzle device for 458 ?

Primarily looking to mitigate recoil, not muzzle rise. I also don't want something enormous. What are you running on your 458?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-16-2019, 7:30 AM
Charlie50 Charlie50 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Somewhere in the grey Bay Area
Posts: 1,027
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I took mine completely off my 458 socom (Black Rain). I replaced it with a simple and short stainless thread protector. I use this awesome pig gun for hunting, slight muzzle rise really does not matter in that situation, follow up shot (other pig) no problem. Recoil is only slightly better with the brake.. I think because of the added weight (like 12 oz). The weight and length of stock muzzle brake sucked for hunting... short is good, light is better. Granted at the range a brake is a nicer, somewhat nicer to neighboring shooters. But I always get an interesting look when someone expects a .223 sound... "what the hell is that thing"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-16-2019, 7:49 AM
200Apples's Avatar
200Apples 200Apples is offline
- DVC -
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: the southern California sardine can
Posts: 2,387
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Granted at the range a brake is a nicer, somewhat nicer to neighboring shooters.

I don't understand. In my experience, brakes are also blast enhancers and especially to neighboring shooters on a firing line. I wish it were different. Please explain? Thanks Charlie.
__________________
.
“The history of liberty is the history of the limitations placed on the government… Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance.” – Woodrow Wilson

. Member NRA and Mojave Lever Crew | Stuck somewhere between Cowboy and Tactical | Bolts, levers, single actions and 1911s

. 1A - 2A = -1A | Oh, and, LOL
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-16-2019, 8:17 AM
Charlie50 Charlie50 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Somewhere in the grey Bay Area
Posts: 1,027
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
I don't understand. In my experience, brakes are also blast enhancers and especially to neighboring shooters on a firing line. I wish it were different. Please explain? Thanks Charlie.
Your are right, my bad. Intended to say the side blast from stock brake is not nice to neighbors! The stainless cap kind of has a big fireball at the front of muzzle, night effects are interesting.
__________________
'I own the guns I own because I acknowledge mankind's shortcomings instead of pretending like they don't exist. There are evil men in this world and there just may be a time when I need to do the unthinkable to protect me or my family,'
Joshua Boston

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics, is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." Plato
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-16-2019, 10:27 AM
isntzen isntzen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 283
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie50 View Post
I took mine completely off my 458 socom (Black Rain). I replaced it with a simple and short stainless thread protector.
Well that is certainly an economical solution and it seems to suit your purpose,. I am hoping to find a device of reasonable size that works well for mitigating recoil.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-16-2019, 12:20 PM
MongooseV8's Avatar
MongooseV8 MongooseV8 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 3,392
iTrader: 83 / 100%
Default

Email Ross Schuler. Very reliable performance brakes at a steal of a price.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-16-2019, 3:59 PM
Fjold's Avatar
Fjold Fjold is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near Bakersfield
Posts: 20,879
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

The favorite muzzle device for my 458 Win Mag is the front site base.
__________________
Frank

One rifle, one planet, Holland's 375

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Fjold/member8325.png

Life Member NRA, CRPA and SAF
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-16-2019, 11:30 PM
isntzen isntzen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 283
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
The favorite muzzle device for my 458 Win Mag is the front site base.
Well sir, not everybody can be Frank. Some of us have to smoke cigars, we can't quite tolerate eating them.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-19-2019, 10:34 PM
BroncoMustang BroncoMustang is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 256
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I don't have a 458, but have had low recoil on my 308 with a Holland Radial Baffle brake; I read that they are the best (with a traditional design) at staying on target when shooting. I read it at precisionrifleblog.com. Check out their article (they tested many different ones); it was an informative read.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-20-2019, 10:44 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 45,241
iTrader: 96 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Primarily looking to mitigate recoil, not muzzle rise.
I also don't want something enormous.
458's usually do not have much pressure left at the muzzle to operate a muzzle brake due to the large bore expanding the gas so much before the bullet leaves..
If you want a muzzle brake to be effective, it is going to have to have a lot more surface area than muzzle brakes for smaller calibers with high muzzle pressure have.
So your desire for a smaller muzzle device is simply going to mean that it won't be very effective.

So pick what's more important and purchase accordingly.
You can have a smaller muzzle brake that looks nice and does not help much.
Or you can have a large muzzle device which works better but does not look as nice.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-20-2019, 12:37 PM
Spyder's Avatar
Spyder Spyder is online now
Honorary MLC
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In a shack, in the woods
Posts: 12,064
iTrader: 105 / 100%
Default

I have still got to figure out the thread pattern on my 458 winmag. It is VERY unpleasant to shoot while hunting. I need to figure out thread pattern and find a thread protector for when I'm shooting reduced loads but it's some funky oddball doesn't match anything one. Keep meaning to stop at a machine shop and figure it out.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-20-2019, 3:51 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 45,241
iTrader: 96 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
I have still got to figure out the thread pattern on my 458 winmag. It is VERY unpleasant to shoot while hunting. I need to figure out thread pattern and find a thread protector for when I'm shooting reduced loads but it's some funky oddball doesn't match anything one. Keep meaning to stop at a machine shop and figure it out.
All it takes is calipers.
Meausre the outside diameter of the threads.
It will be just a few thousandtls under some common dimension like 5/8" or 3/4".
Then count 10 threads and measure the length from the point of the starting thread to the 10th thread.
Don't count the thread you start measuring at or you will only be measuring 9 threads when you count 10.
From the thread length of 10 threads, divide that by 10 to get a more accurate single pitch measurement.
Then take 1/thread pitch and you will get the pitch number.
Commonly 20, 24, 28, 32 or 36.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-20-2019, 4:00 PM
Spyder's Avatar
Spyder Spyder is online now
Honorary MLC
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In a shack, in the woods
Posts: 12,064
iTrader: 105 / 100%
Default

Tried that and thought I had it, ordered thread protector, didn't fit. It's a Steyr Model-S if that makes a difference, being a funny European one.
It's very possible I measured wrong, haven't messed with it since then.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-20-2019, 4:05 PM
Spyder's Avatar
Spyder Spyder is online now
Honorary MLC
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In a shack, in the woods
Posts: 12,064
iTrader: 105 / 100%
Default

I want to say it measured similar to 3/4x16, but it's been a while and don't remember. I'll mess with it in the morning maybe.

I'd also like whatever thread protector I get to fit under the front sight and be the same OD as the barrel, but that's not mandatory I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-20-2019, 4:06 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 45,241
iTrader: 96 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
Tried that and thought I had it, ordered thread protector, didn't fit. It's a Steyr Model-S if that makes a difference, being a funny European one.
It's very possible I measured wrong, haven't messed with it since then.
Probably metric threads if it's factory threaded.
Metric threads will typically be 0.1 to 0.2mm smaller in diameter than the nominal diameter.
Most European guns use 1mm pitch threads so we see things like 14x1, 15x1, 16x1.
When you get to 18mm, they can be 18x1, 18x1.25 or 18x1.5.

14x1 are amazingly close to 9/16x24, so close that the parts sometimes interchange.
16x1 is very close to 5/8x24, but a 5/8-24 female thread won't quite thread on to 16x1 threads as the 16x1 external threads would be about 0.005" too large.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-20-2019, 10:38 PM
isntzen isntzen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 283
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
458's usually do not have much pressure left at the muzzle to operate a muzzle brake due to the large bore expanding the gas so much before the bullet leaves..
If you want a muzzle brake to be effective, it is going to have to have a lot more surface area than muzzle brakes for smaller calibers with high muzzle pressure have.
So your desire for a smaller muzzle device is simply going to mean that it won't be very effective.

So pick what's more important and purchase accordingly.
You can have a smaller muzzle brake that looks nice and does not help much.
Or you can have a large muzzle device which works better but does not look as nice.
In full disclosure the rifle is actually a .45 PCC, so your points are probably highly applicable. What I would like is to cut, pin and weld a well-functioning recoil mitigating device to the rifle. Really need some model specific suggestions as to which devices would be functional.
And if only there was a Smith in the Los Angeles area capable of doing this kind of work ...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-21-2019, 11:56 PM
isntzen isntzen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 283
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

What about one of these?
https://www.wingtactical.com/amp/45-acp-muzzle-devices/
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-22-2019, 12:54 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 45,241
iTrader: 96 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
I want to say it measured similar to 3/4x16, but it's been a while and don't remember. I'll mess with it in the morning maybe.
See if it's 19x1.5 then.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-22-2019, 1:03 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 45,241
iTrader: 96 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Of all of those, the Gunfighter is probably the most effective.
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-22-2019, 8:30 PM
isntzen isntzen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 283
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Of all of those, the Gunfighter is probably the most effective.
Barrel looks like it would accept 3/4x24 threads.
Know anybody who could cut, pin, weld something like this on my USC?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-22-2019, 8:38 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 45,241
iTrader: 96 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Barrel looks like it would accept 3/4x24 threads.
Know anybody who could cut, pin, weld something like this on my USC?
I know a guy...
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-22-2019, 8:42 PM
isntzen isntzen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 283
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I know a guy...
How best to schedule Randall?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-22-2019, 8:49 PM
MongooseV8's Avatar
MongooseV8 MongooseV8 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 3,392
iTrader: 83 / 100%
Default

PM him
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-25-2019, 12:18 PM
Charlie50 Charlie50 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Somewhere in the grey Bay Area
Posts: 1,027
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseV8 View Post
PM him
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie50 View Post
I took mine completely off my 458 socom (Black Rain). I replaced it with a simple and short stainless thread protector. I use this awesome pig gun for hunting, slight muzzle rise really does not matter in that situation, follow up shot (other pig) no problem. Recoil is only slightly better with the brake.. I think because of the added weight (like 12 oz). The weight and length of stock muzzle brake sucked for hunting... short is good, light is better. Granted at the range a brake is a nicer, somewhat nicer to neighboring shooters. But I always get an interesting look when someone expects a .223 sound... "what the hell is that thing"
Quote:
Originally Posted by isntzen View Post
Well that is certainly an economical solution and it seems to suit your purpose,. I am hoping to find a device of reasonable size that works well for mitigating recoil.
The recoil is really not noticeably different when only using the thread protector. Others have noted in this thread that the nature of the caliber is such that muzzle brakes, unless huge (as stock unit was) are near worthless. I am a frail , nearly helpless recent senior citizen... recoil is less than a 20 gauge shotgun for the .458. I suppose in combat situation with many, many shots fired firefight, a good muzzle brake might make a difference but fast follow-up on hog no problemo. Stock unit was humungus.
__________________
'I own the guns I own because I acknowledge mankind's shortcomings instead of pretending like they don't exist. There are evil men in this world and there just may be a time when I need to do the unthinkable to protect me or my family,'
Joshua Boston

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics, is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." Plato
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:15 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.