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  #1  
Old 03-15-2019, 10:49 PM
Yooohoo Yooohoo is offline
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Default Elk Grove PD VS. UC Davis PD

I applied to both as a lateral since they are closer to home. What are the pros and cons?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 03-16-2019, 1:22 AM
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They’re PDs. Just my personal opinion though.

All joking aside, I’d look into each of their use of force policies. While the “necessary” force hasn’t come down on us and won’t for a while even if it does gain considerable traction, you have to look at what the dept allows and whether it’s a paradigm or continuum.

Also, what is your endgame? Goals? What would you like to do? Does environment matter much to you? Obviously, UCD PD is a state agency giving you state benefits. Correct me if I’m wrong, but your responsibility is UCD and probably its hospitals. That’s pretty much it. Both are smaller departments, which doesn’t afford you a ton of movement within the department either.

I know EGPD may be moving towards allowing their citizen review board to potentially begin reviewing/critiquing use of force incidents and that’s always a recipe for disaster. They haven’t done so yet from what I understand, but they’re definitely close to giving it the green light.
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  #3  
Old 03-16-2019, 1:58 AM
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Having taken some classes with EGPD's communications team, I'd work for them in a heartbeat
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  #4  
Old 03-16-2019, 3:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobula View Post
Having taken some classes with EGPD's communications team, I'd work for them in a heartbeat


You really would still consider going there if the civilian review board is going to review everything? Good or bad? Cause your career and future depends on people who know nothing about law enforcement.


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Last edited by Rogue187; 03-16-2019 at 4:42 AM.. Reason: word sub
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  #5  
Old 03-16-2019, 3:43 AM
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Consider the environment on many universities now. Not exactly a great place to be a cop. I will have to find the article, but there is a push at one of the UC's to disarm the campus police.
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  #6  
Old 03-16-2019, 7:32 AM
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One is 830.1 and one isn't.

All kidding aside with what is going on at Davis and most other university's in the state I'd avoid them like the plague if I had the choice. Probably not as many opportunities to do anything other than patrol at one of the UC's. Way back when I knew a guy who went to work at SF state, after being out of the job for a couple year's. He lasted a little over a year working there before he moved on to a municipal agency. He said the politic's was far worse than the small agency he had worked at before. There are also a lot of other agency's in between those two that are probably also hiring.
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  #7  
Old 03-16-2019, 7:39 AM
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I would consider retirement package. How much do I get when I retire?
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  #8  
Old 03-16-2019, 7:56 AM
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Goal is to work less (current agency is busy), I have about 10 years in PERS and looking to retired with the next agency. I’m in the 2.7% at 57 plan and it would be nice to get 3% at 50 with UCD.

Politics is everywhere and I have always been able to stay out of it.

I’m aware of UC Santa Barbara calling to disarm their cops. My feeling is that it’s pretty much happening everywhere in CA.

Both places are slow in terms of CFS and I’m looking to chill at this point.

I honestly thinking both agencies would work well for me. I’m just not sure which to go with and want your input.
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  #9  
Old 03-16-2019, 8:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
One is 830.1 and one isn't.

All kidding aside with what is going on at Davis and most other university's in the state I'd avoid them like the plague if I had the choice. Probably not as many opportunities to do anything other than patrol at one of the UC's. Way back when I knew a guy who went to work at SF state, after being out of the job for a couple year's. He lasted a little over a year working there before he moved on to a municipal agency. He said the politic's was far worse than the small agency he had worked at before. There are also a lot of other agency's in between those two that are probably also hiring.
Before moving to UC check their actual status as peace officers. There was something a few years back about job injury and status. Also the UC president is your boss, even though you will have Chief.
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  #10  
Old 03-16-2019, 8:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooohoo View Post
Goal is to work less (current agency is busy), I have about 10 years in PERS and looking to retired with the next agency. Iím in the 2.7% at 57 plan and it would be nice to get 3% at 50 with UCD.

Politics is everywhere and I have always been able to stay out of it.

Iím aware of UC Santa Barbara calling to disarm their cops. My feeling is that itís pretty much happening everywhere in CA.

Both places are slow in terms of CFS and Iím looking to chill at this point.

I honestly thinking both agencies would work well for me. Iím just not sure which to go with and want your input.
So you have about 10 years on and are ready to retire on duty? Good luck on avoiding politics on a California University campus. You will be OK with left-leaning administrators telling you how to do your job? What happens when they inevitably disarm all of the campus cops?
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  #11  
Old 03-16-2019, 9:06 AM
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EGPD - more opportunity to move into different positions. It’s a large city and they are expanding. Growth = $.

I wouldn’t want to babysit college students or deal with the liberals in Davis.
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  #12  
Old 03-16-2019, 9:58 AM
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Go with EGPD. Better opportunity for advancement and possible lateral to other agencies. UC would be ok if you only want to do sexual assault and illegal parking calls. Also if you have a child who wants to go to school there ,you would get a discount.
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  #13  
Old 03-16-2019, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NATEWA View Post
EGPD - more opportunity to move into different positions. Itís a large city and they are expanding. Growth = $.

I wouldnít want to babysit college students or deal with the liberals in Davis.
I wouldn't call Elk Grove a large city at all. 2nd largest in Sac County, yes, but that's not saying much.

Compare it to City of Sac which has a population of some 450k+ in about 100 sq mi and EG is at about 175k+ in about 40 sq mi.

EG is getting a ton of influx from the Bay area and South Sac is bleeding in as well. There's a fair amount of LE support in EG, however, I would say it is slowly getting diluted because of the increase in Bay area politics and South Sac coming in. You also have to remember the Wilton Rancheria will be going up soon and have to factor that in as well.

I'm not trying to knock one over the other. You just have to figure out what you want. Sounds like you're just trying to do bare minimum and hide somewhere. I can't say which one of the two departments will allow you to do that.
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  #14  
Old 03-16-2019, 7:16 PM
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Thx all
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2019, 2:03 PM
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If you were hired under PEPRA you wouldn’t be eligible for the classic CalPERS(3/50), just some info based on your posted goals. GL with the lateral process.
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2019, 2:25 PM
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Did not read anything but the title. I think Elk Grove pd could beat up UC Davis pd.
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2019, 2:32 PM
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EG is a great agency, lots of former Sac SO guys there. I used to help train their K-9 unit when they were first incorporated back in 05. Great group of guys, great agency busy if that what you like. UCD PD, dealing with a bunch of entitled millennials, anti LEO professors on campus......the only upside I see to them is the free schooling, not sure they offer that still.
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2019, 4:46 PM
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UCD PD jurisdiction falls on the campuses, hospitals, and immediate, surrounding areas of all. They have a general agreement with Davis PD and Sac PD for the surrounding areas.

UC (I believe also CSU) is on a separate retirement system. This is why retirees often go to the university system after. See the former CHP commissioner, who is now, I believe, the current Chief with UCD.

Remember Lt. Pike, also.
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2019, 5:03 PM
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Default UC Davis PD vs Elk Grove PD

If you're in it for the money, UCD PD tops out at $103,646/year and Elk Grove PD tops out at $93,456/year (possible $107,454 with POST pay, etc).

UC cops are full-time, sworn peace officers pursuant to PC 830.2(b) and UC cops are statutorily armed, so they cannot be disarmed without a change in the Penal Code.

Since they are not PERS, all UC cops still have 3%@50 retirement through the UC Retirement Plan. If you lateral over from a PERS agency to the UCRP, you can apply for Reciprocity to count your PERS time towards the UCRP 3%@50 Safety Member retirement formula.

My better half worked the UC police gig for 8 years. It's very political but what LEO gig isn't political nowadays? Make no mistake, you will do police work. UC Davis is unique because they have two campuses... Davis and Sacramento. Working in Davis, you'll probably see the campus police type stuff, but working the UCD Medical Center in Sacramento, you'll probably see a little more action especially around the Oak Park area.

UC Davis PD has a relatively new Chief too... former CHP Commissioner Joe Farrow. That may be good thing but time will tell. Also, as a UC cop, you will be subject to mutual aid callouts at the other campuses. There's nothing like working the big Cal / Stanford game with over 60,000 drunk college students/alumni in one stadium!
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2019, 7:08 AM
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EGPD is a bunch of nerds, but I'd rather suck start my gun than work for UCDPD. EG won't honor 3@50, even for classic laterals (they might offer 3@55). EGPD does have a solid budget, a lot of special assignments, and some genuinely good people. But if you're looking to ROD, it's not the place to be.
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  #21  
Old 03-24-2019, 6:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobula View Post
Having taken some classes with EGPD's communications team, I'd work for them in a heartbeat
Taking a class related to communications is not what Iíd consider a very good determiner of fact for employment considerations as a police officer. Iíd need a lot more research on the agency first. Iíd want to know their pay, retirement, use of force policy, officer association strength, officer morale, etc... etc... to name just a few things..,
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  #22  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:51 PM
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Default Two Great Chiefs

As others mentioned, UCDPD has a relatively new chief in Joe Farrow, but he may be the most experienced Chief in the state. He started his career at a municipal PD, Pacific Grove as I recall, before going to one of the largest departments in the state, and certainly the most spread-out, the CHP where he was the commissioner for about a decade. I've never met him personally, but I've spoken with him on the phone. A very nice, down to earth, personable guy and he is, overall, very well-liked by my friends who worked for him. UCDPD like others mentioned is not a PERS or "37 Act" agency, but has it's own UC retirement system. But you can ask for reciprocity if you're in a PERS system currently. They are a good size department, about 80ish sworn, and lots of student service officers. BUT, remember they are part of the larger state-wide UC police system, so once you're in you may be called upon to help at other campuses and lateraling (or promoting) to other campuses is much easier than being hired anew. It's sorta like being in a division or precinct of a larger department. In the UC world, academia reigns supreme, not the police department. UC PD's are little dogs in terms of influence, budget, politics, etc.

At a municipal PD, especially Elk Grove where the city doesn't support a lot of other departments, the PDs are usually the general fund "big dog" and typically it's the PDs that have most significant budgets, political influence and collective bargaining. Elk Grove has about 150 sworn, last time I checked, and their budget is healthy and growing; you can't say that about most municipal PDs in the state. Their officer to citizen ratio, less than 1 per 1,000, is lower than average. Their Cheif is Bryan Noblett. He started his career at Lodi PD and served there about 20 years where he rose to the rank of Lieutenant. He left Lodi PD a little over 10 years ago to take a Captain position at the newly formed EGPD. He is a "cop's cop" at his core, and an excellent administrator and leader as well. In my opinion, one of the best chief's you could ask to work for.

Sooo....bottom line. I think if you do your part, you can't go wrong working for either agency.

Canman

Last edited by canman; 03-28-2019 at 1:13 PM..
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  #23  
Old 03-26-2019, 7:02 AM
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Ive worked with Elk Grove before. They were cool enough. The city itself reminded me a lot of Irvine down here in Orange County. They seem to have a good tax base which is nice because you'll always have a steady paycheck. If i had to pick an agency up there though, i think i'd try Sac County. Big department with a lot more opportunity. Don't know much about their pay scales.

Don't think in a million years i would ever sign up to be a campus cop. My advice would be to steer clear of Davis, even if they pay more.

Don't worry about agency politics either. Administrations come and go and you will always have some better than others. Good luck with your decision.
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Old 03-26-2019, 8:12 AM
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Rogue187, EGPD's citizen review board is the reason to not work there? Have you looked at the names of the people on the board? I have, I know a couple of them. One of them just retired after serving about 30 years as a pro law enforcement DA in San Joaquin County.....and you say they know nothing about policing. Do your homework.

No one is going to disarm campus police, or SRO's, any time soon. It's true their role has changed, is changing, over the last few years. There is a move on school campuses in general to make fewer discipline issues "police" issues even if they may be criminal in nature. Per Clery Act requirements, every campus will have an annual report that details crime on campus, and off campus facilities/housing, as well as how they were adjudicated. It only takes a minute realize that most alcohol, marijuana, and disturbance issues are handled administratively within the school, not criminally in the court system. On the other hand, sexual assault / domestic violence, is handled with the utmost scrutiny most of the time.

And a couple other issues. UC and CSU police are full-time sworn, just like any municipal PD, CHP or Patrol Deputy. CSU are PERS retirement system, UC are their own system, UC Retirement System.

And lastly, if I was on your hiring panel and heard you say you were looking to slow down (work less) after 10 years on the job, I likely would not hire you. Now, if after 10 years your ambitions have changed--rockin and rolling all shift long on Patrol no longer appeals to you as much as when you started--and you are looking for new challenges and opportunities.....well that's a different story.

Canman

Last edited by canman; 03-28-2019 at 1:13 PM..
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  #25  
Old 03-26-2019, 11:14 AM
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canman, I make my statement based upon fact that if you care to look it up. Some Citizen Review Boards are comprised of prior LE but many are not.
SFPD for example has civilians with no LE experience and some with.
Other places have exactly that civilian review boards.
If your able to get a board comprised of both then your okay but what would you do should that change?

You should be aware of the demographics that can come your way.
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  #26  
Old 03-26-2019, 12:05 PM
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Keep in mind that the UCPD is a special jurisdiction department. It has a lot of plusses and minuses, but is quite different from a municipal department.

I started my career with the UCPD while I was also a student there. I took a quarter off to complete the academy and then worked there while completing my degree. I left after graduation to enter the USCG on active duty. I subsequently went to LASD after my initial active duty period.

The biggest "plus" to the UCPD system is the concept of community that exists on campus. Everyone that you deal with has a common bond to the university and that can make it a neat place to work. You also become a "jack of all trades", you get to do a bit of everything, but at the same time you never get to be a master at anything. I did a wider range of police work in three years at the UCPD than I did in my first 15 at LASD. But then I made more felony arrests in my first two weeks in the field at LASD than I did in three years with the UCPD.

The minuses are pretty easy to figure out. It is a very political environment. You'll learn very early on that there is a difference between "education" and "intelligence." The universities are full of very educated idiots and they can do a lot of well-intentioned harm to your career.
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  #27  
Old 03-26-2019, 12:40 PM
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Rogue, no worries, I understand what CAN happen with citizen review boards in an ultra liberal city like San Francisco, or a department with the demographics, and consent decree, of Oakland across the Bay. But, that's not Elk Grove...not now....and not in the foreseeable future. Honestly, Sac City PD will take the brunt of that burden for a while.....Sac SO, to some degree, and certainly Elk Grove PD can just sorta "lay low" for a while; Sac City is in that spotlight.

I have friends that work for all of those departments. I've personally spoken with former Chief Suhr on a couple occasions. That ultra liberal political machine scapegoated and railroaded (in my opinion) a man who was a good cop and a good chief.

RickD, please don't take offense to this in any way, but I'm not sure comparing LASD, LAPD, or CHP to the typical/average municipal PD in the state is a really good/fair comparison. Keep in mind I've trained several times with all of those organizations. Those organizations, their org charts, their budgets, their special assignments, their opportunities are almost unfathomable compared to the average municipal department. Those three agencies employee about 35% of all sworn officers in the state. In all, in the state, there are about 420 Law Enforcement Agencies. The typical agency in this state is small, but the typical officer (1 in 3) works in a very large agency. I will agree that UCPD's, and really a lot of municipal PD's in the state, are much more homogeneous with a greater sense of community and family than say LAPD or LASD.

What I see as what should be Yoohoo's biggest concern, and maybe he didn't mean it this way, is that if he's looking to slow down, or ROD like someone else mentioned, I don't think he will find either department to be a good "fit" for him. If he's looking for opportunities he's not getting where he's at, if he is looking for that great sense of mission or community that he is not getting where he's at, if he is looking to put his family in a different living environment than they are currently in while still staying a LEO in CA, then a move to new dept. may be the right choice.

Canman

(Any opinions expressed here are my own and are primarily conceptual in nature. They do not in any way reflect the opinions or values of any organization or club with which I may be affiliated.)

Last edited by canman; 03-27-2019 at 7:12 AM..
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  #28  
Old 03-26-2019, 1:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
Ive worked with Elk Grove before. They were cool enough. The city itself reminded me a lot of Irvine down here in Orange County. They seem to have a good tax base which is nice because you'll always have a steady paycheck. If i had to pick an agency up there though, i think i'd try Sac County. Big department with a lot more opportunity. Don't know much about their pay scales.

Don't think in a million years i would ever sign up to be a campus cop. My advice would be to steer clear of Davis, even if they pay more.

Don't worry about agency politics either. Administrations come and go and you will always have some better than others. Good luck with your decision.

I would also advise to put in for the big three SO's in the area: Sac, Placer, and El Do. Great, conservative/back your deputies type agencies.

Sac SO has it's own retirement system through the county, which is a tad better than CalPERS at the moment. Many retire from CalPERS and switch to one of the county agencies to "double-dip". You also could try Sac Co Parks, any of the investigative branches such as Welfare Fraud, DA Investigators, etc... if you're intending to "slow down".
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