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  #1  
Old 11-08-2010, 9:03 PM
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Default Advice on reloading 308 Win for Rem 700 SPS 1/10 twist rate

So I've got all the equipment for my first reloading, after some research I bought RCBS Rock chucker supreme master kit and a few more tools to make it easier. I can't wait to start, I'm just waiting for Hornady case trimmer that's been backordered.
I'm planning to reload .308 Win ammo for my Remington SPS 700 Tactical with 20" barrel and 1 in 10 twist rate. My shooting will be first at 100 yards target until I get good at it and then move to the next level. I'd like to get some really tight and consistent groups.

What I bought is CCI primers, Hornady Match BTHP 168gr. bullets and a box of 100 bullets at 155 gr. from Sierra. I have some 100 pieces of Remington brass and 200 rounds of Winchester ammo I want to shoot and save the brass from.
I'd like to get some advice on how much gun powder I should use, what are my limits on both types of bullets and what do you think the optimal load would be for my rifle and shooting. I have Hodgdon Varget and BLC2 to choose from.

I'm sure there are people out there who went through some recipe making for this type of rifle and might point me in the right direction.
Thank you all for the input...
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Old 11-09-2010, 7:10 AM
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You should get familiar with this link if you're going to use IMR or Hodgdon

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
168 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon Varget .308" 2.800" 42.0 2520 41,200 CUP 46.0C 2731 50,600 CUP

Your starting load is at 42gr with Varget with a recommended maximum of 46gr.

I have a Savage 10FP 24" barrel with 1/10 twist. I've never used Varget to load for it (should try it though) but I use the Sierra accuracy loads as per 6mmbr for 308. My go to load is Sierra Matchking 168gr HPBT, Lapua brass, CCI BR2 (can't find Federal match anywhere) 42.2gr Reloader 15, .10 of lands.

I think the 155gr bullet might be too light for your twist but you never know till you try.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2010, 7:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Romanski View Post
You should get familiar with this link if you're going to use IMR or Hodgdon

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
168 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon Varget .308" 2.800" 42.0 2520 41,200 CUP 46.0C 2731 50,600 CUP

Your starting load is at 42gr with Varget with a recommended maximum of 46gr.

I have a Savage 10FP 24" barrel with 1/10 twist. I've never used Varget to load for it (should try it though) but I use the Sierra accuracy loads as per 6mmbr for 308. My go to load is Sierra Matchking 168gr HPBT, Lapua brass, CCI BR2 (can't find Federal match anywhere) 42.2gr Reloader 15, .10 of lands.

I think the 155gr bullet might be too light for your twist but you never know till you try.
Thank you for that link, great source. What kind of powder do you use?
I only bought 100 rounds of Sierra 155gr HPBT to try it out, but you're right, I've red somewhere it might be light, we'll see, still better than 147gr. FMJ from gunshow I'm using now. Seems like 168gr Hornady Match HPBT would do the trick, perhaps even heavier.
Is Romanski your real name? Sounds eastern or central european...
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Old 11-09-2010, 8:10 AM
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My load is a 168 A-Max on top of 44.4 grains of Varget in Win or Lapua brass.
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Old 11-09-2010, 8:19 AM
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Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
My load is a 168 A-Max on top of 44.4 grains of Varget in Win or Lapua brass.
Hi, what barrel do you use that load in? I guess for fine-tuning it matters right? I'm new to this so I'm just trying to gather some more inputs. Thanks.
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Old 11-09-2010, 8:22 AM
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Reloading manuals are your friends. Pick some up and read away until you feel comfortable loading your own ammo. Each gun has a "favorite" load, if you will, and its about finding what works best for your rifle. Your best bet is to start with a "book" load and go from there. All the powder websites have good info as well. Never use someone elses load, what may be safe for one reloader and rifle may not be safe for you and yours. Someone experienced that can show you the ropes would also be a huge benefit. It isn't difficult to reload. Just take your time and be safe. Working up loads can be frustrating and rewarding at the same time. Heres some "recipes" for your viewing/reference...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...=323517&page=1
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2010, 8:34 AM
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Originally Posted by RobG View Post
Reloading manuals are your friends. Pick some up and read away until you feel comfortable loading your own ammo. Each gun has a "favorite" load, if you will, and its about finding what works best for your rifle. Your best bet is to start with a "book" load and go from there. All the powder websites have good info as well. Never use someone elses load, what may be safe for one reloader and rifle may not be safe for you and yours. Someone experienced that can show you the ropes would also be a huge benefit. It isn't difficult to reload. Just take your time and be safe. Working up loads can be frustrating and rewarding at the same time. Heres some "recipes" for your viewing/reference...
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...=323517&page=1
Hi RobG, thank you for your advice, I have the manual and I read it, not only that, also lots of info on the websites. I'm not trying to copy anyone's load, I'm aware of the fact it's individual and I haven't posted this thread for that reason.
I'm not one of those people that post things like "I bought a press, now what?" , that's just lame, irresponsible and dangerous.

All I'm looking for are some inputs from people that have similar rifle/barrel with the same twist and getting some ideas on what works for other shooters. I by no means will blindly copy someone elses load.
But I really appreciate your advice, I don't know anyone in my area who reloads, but there are some nice how-to videos online (youtube) that show some practical examples, it's good to see that and combine with the knowledge from the books and other sources.
...safety first...
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2010, 8:38 AM
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If you want extreme accuracy get the following

IMR-4895
SMK 168gr HPBT
FGMM cases
WLR Primer

Start at 40gr and work your way up to 43gr or so. 44gr being max per the Speer manual.

FGMM is 42.7gr

I have EXCELLENT accuracy between 41.5-42.9

Only thing I dislike is IMR-4895 smells like rotton eggs when fired.
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2010, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martan View Post
Hi RobG, thank you for your advice, I have the manual and I read it, not only that, also lots of info on the websites. I'm not trying to copy anyone's load, I'm aware of the fact it's individual and I haven't posted this thread for that reason.
I'm not one of those people that post things like "I bought a press, now what?" , that's just lame, irresponsible and dangerous.

All I'm looking for are some inputs from people that have similar rifle/barrel with the same twist and getting some ideas on what works for other shooters. I by no means will blindly copy someone elses load.
But I really appreciate your advice, I don't know anyone in my area who reloads, but there are some nice how-to videos online (youtube) that show some practical examples, it's good to see that and combine with the knowledge from the books and other sources.
...safety first...
Good deal, sounds your like your off to a good start. Check out that link I put up. SH has tons of 308 shooters so I am sure there are others with your rifle/twist that have some proven loads to work from. If you really need a trimmer right away, look at the Possum Hollow. They work great and are cheap. Midway usually has them available.
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2010, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martan View Post
Thank you for that link, great source. What kind of powder do you use?
I only bought 100 rounds of Sierra 155gr HPBT to try it out, but you're right, I've red somewhere it might be light, we'll see, still better than 147gr. FMJ from gunshow I'm using now. Seems like 168gr Hornady Match HPBT would do the trick, perhaps even heavier.
Is Romanski your real name? Sounds eastern or central european...
For precision work out of the Savage 308, I use Reloader 15. I have some rounds loaded with the new(er) 8208 XBR (can't remember exact details of what I have) which is the "new" awesome powder. I'll report back with that once/hopefully I find a good combo for my rifle.

I'm going to give the Nosler Custom Competition 168gr HPBT a try. Many swear that the Noslers are better than the Sierras but if they are anything close to the Sierras then the price alone makes them a win.

Per my research, 147 - 155 is too light for a 1:10 twist.

Roman is my name family is Russian.
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Old 11-09-2010, 9:31 AM
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My favorite load for a 700SPS Var.

175gr SMK
43.1gr of Varget
CCI BR2 Primers
Winchester Brass
2.800 COL

I was thinking of trying out the 155gr Palma Match Sierra, but heard that they have issues grouping well with the factory Remington barrels.

And btw, if you're still waiting on that brass trimmer, I recommend this instead. Works great and its even better with the power adapter.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tnumber=155172
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Old 11-09-2010, 9:56 AM
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I have a savage .308 with a tight necked 24" Hart barrel with a 1/10 twist. My current load is:

175gr. SMK
Black Hills brass
Fed 210 primers
42.6gr. of Varget
with a length of 2.223 to the ogive, which is .002 off of the lands (COAL is right around 2.8, +- .003 as I don't trim the meplat)

This gives me a velocity of 2600 fps and being a mild load, no pressure signs or anything.

One thing to do is a ladder test, start from the lowest listed charge and load 5 rounds at each charge, going up .3 grs of powder. You will want to shoot them at 100 yards minimum, 200 or 300 is ideal, and what you are looking for is the powder charge that has the least vertical spread without showing any signs of excessive pressure. If there is two charges that are next to each other (i.e. 44.0 and 44.3) and are the two smallest groups, then you can refine by doing another ladder test starting .2grs below the first and going .2 above the second (unless signs of pressure) and test .1 grs incriments.

I would suggest doing this with your bullet about the same distance off of the lands as my load, as many bullets like a slight jump (VLDs however like to be jammed into the lands)

Keep reading various manuals and sources and take your time working up loads.

One other piece of advice, when doing a ladder test, write on your brass the charge of powder for each one. I didn't, fumbled my ammo holder and dumped 50 rounds of various charged rounds all over the floor. That forced my to have to pull every single bullet, dump the powder and start all over again.
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:00 AM
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ohh and speaking of OAL, I would get an length gauge and measure the length from the breech to the rifling and load the cartridges for a jump/no jump to the lands (you'll need to experiment). I started at ~.25 from the lands I seem to get the best results from .010 - .015 jump.

Last edited by Romanski; 11-09-2010 at 10:03 AM..
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhiide View Post
My favorite load for a 700SPS Var.

175gr SMK
43.1gr of Varget
CCI BR2 Primers
Winchester Brass
2.800 COL

I was thinking of trying out the 155gr Palma Match Sierra, but heard that they have issues grouping well with the factory Remington barrels.

And btw, if you're still waiting on that brass trimmer, I recommend this instead. Works great and its even better with the power adapter.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tnumber=155172
I've heard good things about 175gr for this type of rifle, I'll try that as well.
Trimmer is back-ordered and will ship sometime soon. I wanted originally RCBS manual case trimmer but then I red reviews on Hornady and people really like it, I think I'll stick with it, hopefully I'll be happy too, but thanks !
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Old 11-09-2010, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Romanski View Post
ohh and speaking of OAL, I would get an length gauge and measure the length from the breech to the rifling and load the cartridges for a jump/no jump to the lands (you'll need to experiment). I started at ~.25 from the lands I seem to get the best results from .010 - .015 jump.
I have a friend Roman in Reno, not Russian but from Slovakia, I'm from there as well. Can you smell the socialism in the air? All over again...
Anyway, isn't the dimension from the breech to the rifling the same on all the rifles of this type? It should be some hard number right? Or is it slightly different on each?
I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say "load the cartridges for a jump/no jump to the lands", would you be more specific? You probably are, it's just me who doesn't get it...
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Old 11-09-2010, 1:14 PM
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good to meet you Martan.


The distance from the ogive to the rifling can differ a bit from one make to the next. I don't know the differences between two SPSs or two 10FPs but since they are machined, I'm sure the difference are minimal, but there is a difference between 700LTR and a 10FP (two different makes).

Some say that you do not want the bullet to sit again the rifling. What I read was that you want a small space between the ogive of the bullet and the rifling so that the bullet gets a "jump" before it engages the rifling. This reduces some of the pressure and allows the bullet time to "get started" into the rifling where it is squeezed and spun. The ogive is the wide part of the bullet that first makes contact with the rifling. When you measure OAL it should be measured at the ogive because that is the part that actually contacts the rifling. The point of the bullet can be different shape and length and does not matter. There are tools available from many manufacturers get this measurement and prices and designs vary some.

I suggest for you to follow a receipt from a reputable source (manual, online manual) try the Hodgdon load chart, don't exceed the maximum and load for suggested OAL. Where it says they use primer X and you only have primer Y, reduce the powder charge to starting load and then work up from there. Look for signs of stress and pressure. I refer to the manual if I see a case or primer that looks unusual. Rero has really good advice for building up loads.
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Old 11-09-2010, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
I have a savage .308 with a tight necked 24" Hart barrel with a 1/10 twist. My current load is:

175gr. SMK
Black Hills brass
Fed 210 primers
42.6gr. of Varget
with a length of 2.223 to the ogive, which is .002 off of the lands (COAL is right around 2.8, +- .003 as I don't trim the meplat)

This gives me a velocity of 2600 fps and being a mild load, no pressure signs or anything.

One thing to do is a ladder test, start from the lowest listed charge and load 5 rounds at each charge, going up .3 grs of powder. You will want to shoot them at 100 yards minimum, 200 or 300 is ideal, and what you are looking for is the powder charge that has the least vertical spread without showing any signs of excessive pressure. If there is two charges that are next to each other (i.e. 44.0 and 44.3) and are the two smallest groups, then you can refine by doing another ladder test starting .2grs below the first and going .2 above the second (unless signs of pressure) and test .1 grs incriments.

I would suggest doing this with your bullet about the same distance off of the lands as my load, as many bullets like a slight jump (VLDs however like to be jammed into the lands)

Keep reading various manuals and sources and take your time working up loads.

One other piece of advice, when doing a ladder test, write on your brass the charge of powder for each one. I didn't, fumbled my ammo holder and dumped 50 rounds of various charged rounds all over the floor. That forced my to have to pull every single bullet, dump the powder and start all over again.
Thank you for your 2 cents as well, I think I still need to get some terminology straight and find out how to measure certain things.

So each bullet is different , but what's important is to keep 2.8" OAL right? That means that length to the ogive will vary with different bullets? Am I understanding this correctly? Another thing I'm not sure is how you measure exactly to that point where bullets touch the rifling, since the bullet is curved, it must be very difficult to measure I would think.
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Old 11-09-2010, 2:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Martan View Post
Thank you for your 2 cents as well, I think I still need to get some terminology straight and find out how to measure certain things.

So each bullet is different , but what's important is to keep 2.8" OAL right? That means that length to the ogive will vary with different bullets? Am I understanding this correctly? Another thing I'm not sure is how you measure exactly to that point where bullets touch the rifling, since the bullet is curved, it must be very difficult to measure I would think.
Yes each bullet is different. Some are short and stubby some are long and thin some some are pretty and elegant (Sierra Matchking, Nosler Custom Comp) but they're all different. So that being the case they could not be accurately measured from tip to end and that is why you want to measure from the ogive.

You almost got it The ogive is the wide part of the bullet. If you look at the bullet from the side follow from the tip of the bullet to where it gets to its widest point, that is the ogive. Take a bullet or loaded cartridge and stick it in the tip of the barrel. The bullet tip will go into the barrel but when the bullet stops that's when it engages the rifling and that is the ogive. So when you do this from the other end you insert the modified cartridge into your breech insert a bullet into and push the bullet through the cartridge until you feel it stop firm. Then you take a OAL gauge with the modified casing put it into your caliper and take the reading. That measurement will tell you the maximum OAL of your cartridge in your firearm. The start playing with the OAL 0 from lands, .010 off lands, .015 off lands.... whatever you want to try. This is where you get to experiment and see what YOUR gun likes. Hope this helps.

Last edited by Romanski; 11-09-2010 at 2:25 PM..
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Old 11-09-2010, 2:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Romanski View Post

Some say that you do not want the bullet to sit again the rifling. What I read was that you want a small space between the ogive of the bullet and the rifling so that the bullet gets a "jump" before it engages the rifling. This reduces some of the pressure and allows the bullet time to "get started" into the rifling where it is squeezed and spun. The ogive is the wide part of the bullet that first makes contact with the rifling. When you measure OAL it should be measured at the ogive because that is the part that actually contacts the rifling. The point of the bullet can be different shape and length and does not matter.
Hm, from different sources I read that ogive is not really a point in the bullet length but the curve itself. But if in ballistics it means that then fine. So, 2.8" length becomes a variable then? I thought you shouldn't exceed that number , but I guess I haven't reached that point of the manual I'm reading.
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Old 11-09-2010, 2:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Romanski View Post
Yes each bullet is different. Some are short and stubby some are long and thin some some are pretty and elegant (Sierra Matchking, Nosler Custom Comp) but they're all different. So that being the case they could not be accurately measured from tip to end and that is why you want to measure from the ogive.

You almost got it The ogive is the wide part of the bullet. If you look at the bullet from the side follow from the tip of the bullet to where it gets to its widest point, that is the ogive. Take a bullet or loaded cartridge and stick it in the tip of the barrel. The bullet tip will go into the barrel but when the bullet stops that's when it engages the rifling and that is the ogive. So when you do this from the other end you insert the modified cartridge into your breech insert a bullet into and push the bullet through the cartridge until you feel it stop firm. Then you take a OAL gauge with the modified casing put it into your caliper and take the reading. That measurement will tell you the maximum OAL of your cartridge in your firearm. The start playing with the OAL 0 from lands, .010 off lands, .015 off lands.... whatever you want to try. This is where you get to experiment and see what YOUR gun likes. Hope this helps.
Please bear with me, thanks
Looking at the picture of the 308 cartridge on the right on this website, http://www.6mmbr.com/308win.html
my understanding is that ogive is the measurement of 2.1835 on the left side of the picture, ok so far? Now, this measurement will be different with different bullets and on different rifles.
So what I should do, is load my bullets so I keep that number to the ogive and not worry about 2.8" OAL ?
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Old 11-09-2010, 3:26 PM
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People talk about the COAL (cartridge overall length) as it is important in the it is possible in some firearms to seat the bullet out far enough so that the cartridge will not fit in the magazine.

Two inexpensive tools to use are the Hornady Lock-N-Load™ OAL Gauge and the Hornady Chamber All™ Bullet Comparator. These coupled with a set of calipers and a Hornady OAL Gauge Modified Case will tell you everything you need to know.

By using the above tools, you will be able to find exactly how long your chamber is and how far out you can seat your bullets. Having this level of accuracy in your reloading technique should carry over to the accuracy of your ammunition once it is tuned to your rifle.

You are correct in that the ogive is where the bullet actually contacts the rifling and that is where you want to measure from as while it is different from type of bullet to type of bullet, all bullets of one kind (and weight) will be the same. This is important in precision reloading to get consistancy.

The very tip of the bullet, also called the meplat (spelling could be off) is not going to consistant from bullet to bullet of any single type, even the SMKs. This means that if you are to load up a batch of ammo so that they are all the exact same length from the base to the ogive, there will still be differences in the COAL due to the differences in the meplat (which really isn't a concern)
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Old 11-09-2010, 5:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
People talk about the COAL (cartridge overall length) as it is important in the it is possible in some firearms to seat the bullet out far enough so that the cartridge will not fit in the magazine.

Two inexpensive tools to use are the Hornady Lock-N-Load™ OAL Gauge and the Hornady Chamber All™ Bullet Comparator. These coupled with a set of calipers and a Hornady OAL Gauge Modified Case will tell you everything you need to know.

By using the above tools, you will be able to find exactly how long your chamber is and how far out you can seat your bullets. Having this level of accuracy in your reloading technique should carry over to the accuracy of your ammunition once it is tuned to your rifle.

You are correct in that the ogive is where the bullet actually contacts the rifling and that is where you want to measure from as while it is different from type of bullet to type of bullet, all bullets of one kind (and weight) will be the same. This is important in precision reloading to get consistancy.

The very tip of the bullet, also called the meplat (spelling could be off) is not going to consistant from bullet to bullet of any single type, even the SMKs. This means that if you are to load up a batch of ammo so that they are all the exact same length from the base to the ogive, there will still be differences in the COAL due to the differences in the meplat (which really isn't a concern)
Makes perfect sense now, thank you very much, both you and Roman.
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Old 11-09-2010, 7:16 PM
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You have this gun? Model 700™ SPS™ Tactical AAC®-SD or the Normal SPS Tac?
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Old 11-09-2010, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_NinO619 View Post
You have this gun? Model 700™ SPS™ Tactical AAC®-SD or the Normal SPS Tac?
Yes I do.
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